Actually playing Starcraft 2

Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
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511
I fail at avatars, I thought noodle asked the question to wall in or not.

But as it applies to you; according to your build order, getting a reactor on your lone rax after only 1 or 2 marines and going straight to factory is certainly a bit risky. Sounds like if you know its coming you need to see if constant marine production can hold it off and/or get a 2nd barracks. Or even possibly a tech lab and marauder. The marauder can kill the zealot and stalker effectively which are doing the most dps and will have too many hp to be killed by the momma ship core.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
Marauder won't work it would leave me open to way too many gateway focused attacks. The add-on on the rax really has to be a reactor. But I think you're right behind just 2 marines it is too risky to not wall in. I just find the MSC assaulting my front depot an annoyance. Although generally I can shoo it away before it actually destroys it.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
MsC has the dps of old Arbiters, maybe less, just repair it. The best defense is offense in this case, reaper running into my base just as I move out is the biggest headache.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
I generally don't open reaper in TvP simply because I require those mines really as quickly as I can get them. From watching most streams I don't think Terrans are too big on reapers in the matchup.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
While that may be true you can still imply a ton of knowledge by the time the Stalker comes out in TvP to know how you need to proceed for the immediate future of the game. Reapers are nice in TvT and TvZ where what you see before your SCV scout gets pushed out only tells you what you need to know for only a very little window of time I feel when worker scouting Protoss I can know pretty much what I have to do for a lot longer a time. It also probably helps that in TvP my production structures are always going to be the same regardless it just matters what comes out of them and in what order I get them.

What I do really like in TvP with a Reaper is scouting when the Toss leaves his base since that is a massive tell on what the Toss has in mind. Since you can't easily do that with an SCV or a Marine against someone who is active with a Stalker.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
I need to remember to make a lone reaper for scouting, the time I did it gave me a money scout that won me the game.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
8/8/8 Is a reaper rush all-in build, generally proxied, but non proxied can also be nasty if not scouted properly. You build supply depot/barracks/refinery on 8 supply, hence 8/8/8. First reaper should pop out around 3:15.

To hold it, it is important you do not lose your first marine, wait until the second comes out then engage the lone reaper along with a couple of scvs. Remember your opponent is only going to be mining with 6-8 scvs so its perfectly fine to pull a few scvs.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
Tummysticks_sl said:
Two questions, mostly for Tenks. What the hell is an 8/8/8 and how did it get it's name?

Also, are you familiar with this build that fast expands and goes straight to Ravens, and if so, what's your opinion on it?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZdmBmj1U_8
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Mures explained 888 as well as I could so I'll take the latter question.

You'll find in SC2 there are a variety of ways you can play and be relatively successful. However there will always be the "right" way to play as well and that is the way that can lead to the most success. Can massing Ravens be good? Yes. Is it difficult to counter? Yes. What you need to do is find a playstyle that works for you and stick with it. I myself constantly get caught in the absolute latest bleeding edge Korean metagame and it makes my play suffer. I don't have enough time to play to constantly switch around my playstyle. I have a single playstyle in each matchup and I work on just getting good at that. So if PF+Raven makes sense to you and you are successful then go with it. Personally I wouldn't do it because it seems really gimmicky and if it is "the best" build it will get nerfed because Blizzard doesn't want mass Ravens. So what happens if you've practiced this build for 3 months and now all of a sudden it doesn't work because of a nerf? You're fucked. You basically wasted a ton of time instead of just playing the "right" way and that is going bio, bio/tank or mech.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Just watched the video; gimmicky would be a good term describing that build. Sure you can have success with it, but its largely because your opponent has no clue wtf is going on so they don't know how to react to it. The guy going pf/raven doesn't get his first raven until after 11m and his main is protected by a couple of marines and turrets along the outside of his base. If the build became popular and you saw a pf at your opponent's natural that early ppl would learn to do a quick bio tank push against it or they could medivac boost past the turrets and drop in the main which is undefended; whichever it is, just as long as you don't let them get that composition and you don't throw units away to a pf.
 
Tummysticks

Tummysticks

Lord Nagafen Raider
785
63
Tenks_sl said:
Mures explained 888 as well as I could so I'll take the latter question.

You'll find in SC2 there are a variety of ways you can play and be relatively successful. However there will always be the "right" way to play as well and that is the way that can lead to the most success. Can massing Ravens be good? Yes. Is it difficult to counter? Yes. What you need to do is find a playstyle that works for you and stick with it. I myself constantly get caught in the absolute latest bleeding edge Korean metagame and it makes my play suffer. I don't have enough time to play to constantly switch around my playstyle. I have a single playstyle in each matchup and I work on just getting good at that. So if PF+Raven makes sense to you and you are successful then go with it. Personally I wouldn't do it because it seems really gimmicky and if it is "the best" build it will get nerfed because Blizzard doesn't want mass Ravens. So what happens if you've practiced this build for 3 months and now all of a sudden it doesn't work because of a nerf? You're fucked. You basically wasted a ton of time instead of just playing the "right" way and that is going bio, bio/tank or mech.
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Yeah, I don't play enough to play seriously anymore. I used to be high plat/low diamond - never really *good* at the game. Since HOTS I've been holding steady in silver and I don't really have any desire to get better at the game. What I do enjoy is doing goofy shit like a lot of what that ketroc21 guy seems to do. He's the only player I've ever seen who seems to actually have fun playing the game.

I don't mean to take away from how you approach the game, I understand it completely. I've just reached the point in life where I don't have the time and energy to devote to playing games on the bleeding edge.

mures_sl said:
Just watched the video; gimmicky would be a good term describing that build. Sure you can have success with it, but its largely because your opponent has no clue wtf is going on so they don't know how to react to it. The guy going pf/raven doesn't get his first raven until after 11m and his main is protected by a couple of marines and turrets along the outside of his base. If the build became popular and you saw a pf at your opponent's natural that early ppl would learn to do a quick bio tank push against it or they could medivac boost past the turrets and drop in the main which is undefended; whichever it is, just as long as you don't let them get that composition and you don't throw units away to a pf.
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Yeah I've paid the price for placing my turrets like he did several times and have since adjusted the positioning. I realize any good player could likely figure a way around the build but at the level I'm playing it does fairly well. I came here asking for good players' thoughts tho, so thank you guys very much for pointing out the weaknesses of the build.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
I had the luxury of watching Sterling's stream for a few hours yesterday. Refined my TvZ yet again.

Basically the idea is to get 1 Reaper out for initial map control prior to Hellions. Then you constantly make Hellions to always threaten the Zerg. You then push with +1/+1, marines and 2 medivacs. The BO is something like:

10 Depot
13 Gas
15 OC
15 Depot
16 Reaper
Reactor Rax
CC (on low ground)
Factory
2x Marines (from reactor)
Bunker @ Natural
Factory <=> Barracks -> Tech
*If the Zerg is researching speed (more than likely he is) wait for 4 Hellions to move out*
(Constantly produce Hellions ... get to like 8 at max though)
Stim
+2 Barracks -> Reactors
+2 Ebay -> +1/+1
+2 Gas
Port
(CB Shields somewhere around here)
Port <=> Factory -> Reactor
2x Medivac

From there your push should contain like 6 or so Hellions and 20 something marines and 2 medivacs. It is a pretty intense push for Zerg. The purpose of your Reaper is to possibly pick off a Drone and figuring out gas timings and to scout a possible Roach den. If he is making Roaches your tech-lab Rax should move into Marauder production, add another Gas and make Widows instead of Hellion. However I'd suggest you only do that if you see scary Roach numbers. Like if he makes 7. If he only makes 3 to scare away your Hellion don't alter the build too much. Consider just another Bunker.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Tenks_sl said:
I had the luxury of watching Sterling's stream for a few hours yesterday. Refined my TvZ yet again.

Basically the idea is to get 1 Reaper out for initial map control prior to Hellions. Then you constantly make Hellions to always threaten the Zerg. You then push with +1/+1, marines and 2 medivacs. The BO is something like:

10 Depot
13 Gas
15 OC
15 Depot
16 Reaper
Reactor Rax
CC (on low ground)
Factory
2x Marines (from reactor)
Bunker @ Natural
Factory <=> Barracks -> Tech
*If the Zerg is researching speed (more than likely he is) wait for 4 Hellions to move out*
(Constantly produce Hellions ... get to like 8 at max though)
Stim
+2 Barracks -> Reactors
+2 Ebay -> +1/+1
+2 Gas
Port
(CB Shields somewhere around here)
Port <=> Factory -> Reactor
2x Medivac

From there your push should contain like 6 or so Hellions and 20 something marines and 2 medivacs. It is a pretty intense push for Zerg. The purpose of your Reaper is to possibly pick off a Drone and figuring out gas timings and to scout a possible Roach den. If he is making Roaches your tech-lab Rax should move into Marauder production, add another Gas and make Widows instead of Hellion. However I'd suggest you only do that if you see scary Roach numbers. Like if he makes 7. If he only makes 3 to scare away your Hellion don't alter the build too much. Consider just another Bunker.
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I've been looking for something just like this, thanks.
Still a lot to learn about hots, the other night I was going 1rax fe into bio widow mine and it gets countered hard by sling/bling muta (speedlings just cause widow mines to blow up your marines before you can build up enough numbers), which everyone is trying to imitate's life's mlg success. At the end of the night I knew I was going to have to go for an early tank contain or hellions, going to give this build a shot.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
I don't know about you but at least 50% of my TvZ games feature some kind of 2base bane bust. If a build doesn't protect against that (personally I feel 1rax FE right into BioMine is bad against it) then I junk the build. Having 6-8 Hellions out completely dismantles, or should I say completely dissuades, the attack. I've always liked having those Hellions out but I've always had some issues transitioning into a decent mid-game push. Probably because I was stuck on the 3cc Hellion/Banshee build from WoL. I also love builds that focus around getting +3/+3 on bio ASAP. With speed medivacs 3/3 marines are so incredibly powerful.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
37,961
14,508
So I'm a self-admitted piece of shit at this game. In order to get a bit better I played 4v4 since launch to re-familiarize myself with the game. My rank in 1v1 was like 97 Bronze. I played a few 1v1's to get the hang of it and within a few games I was back at top 8 bronze. Ran out of time to keep playing, but basically didn't lose a single game. My APM was in the mid-200's while my opponents were very low. A couple played with just a single base.. a couple I stomped into their base with 200/200 armies. 0 GG's were given to me. Hopefully when I continue playing I can get out of Bronze and perhaps into gold.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Did anyone figure out how they get that number for apm in the score screen? I saw it discussed on tl awhile back and noone knew at the time. I know its not standard apm.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
mures_sl said:
Did anyone figure out how they get that number for apm in the score screen? I saw it discussed on tl awhile back and noone knew at the time. I know its not standard apm.
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It basically adds random number every 64/128/256/... seconds I think, get sc2gears for proper APM and dissection of your replays.

Good guide to early game PvZ:
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
37,961
14,508
Tenks_sl said:
What exactly is your obsession with APM all about
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As of right now it is the only real measuring stick when you're going from noob->lessnoob. I don't take it to heart and I don't obsess over it. At the end when I read the score screen I always check it out to see if I was sleeping or actually doing stuff. The fact that it is consistently higher shows I am getting better. I think I went from like 60->250
 
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