American Sniper

chaos

chaos

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BrutulTM_sl said:
Well the movie is about the guy right? Why would they put in a bunch of shit about the "costs of the war" outside of the guy and his family that the movie is about?
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That is his story though, the costs of the war. It would have been a unique take to examine the war from that perspective, a perspective Kyle talked about himself, and not have it be an antiwar movie. I can't remember seeing a war movie that talks about the experiences of the people but still takes the stance that it was worthwhile.
 
Royal

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chaos_sl said:
I can't remember seeing a war movie that talks about the experiences of the people but still takes the stance that it was worthwhile.
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I'm not sure if we'll ever see a first rate movie of that nature in relation to the Iraq War.
 
bixxby

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Khane_sl said:
It's not a propaganda piece. It's a fucking movie.
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C'mon son you're smarter than that. Things can be both, it was made by a crazy old right wing coot who talks to god damn ghosts in public about an american ubermensch.
 
Eidal

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I'm an Afghanistan combat veteran and I enjoyed the movie. It captured very well the emotional cocktail of:

frustration // we're here for goals that aren't well-aligned with the average sergeant, that our friends are being hurt and killed, that shit is going on back home and duty is pulling us in different directions...

fear // the man with the jacked up face in the hospital bed freaking out because he tried to push his girl away because she "deserved better"... that was on many of ours minds but men don't really talk about this shit very well. but given the nature of the threat in AFG (bombs), losing one's legs (or penis) was a very real fear and no one wanted to return from war as a dependent.

anger // a lot of things are a big WTF out there, can just leave it at that.

That scene with the brother on the tarmac, haunted look on his place "fuck this place man". It isn't what I'd call PTSD, but that feeling of isolation upon returning home. Think about how you could be helping out more and if you "deserve" to be back home. Think about things you could have done differently, that might have seen a friend come back home that won't be. There is a reason a USMC infantry battalion waits a few weeks before releasing its men on post-deployment leave: gotta keep an eye on everyone initially. That scene with Chris Kyle at the end where he's at the bar because he "needed a moment" and his wife is like "wtf why aren't you coming home to your family". Just thinking about it again makes me start tearing up.

Anyway I'll stop rambling. I think a lot of people wanted some deep commentary about the nature of war and weren't interested (or prepared) to follow a more visceral/emotional experience. I wonder what combat veterans as a whole think about it -- small sample size but I know the terminal lance (former USMC infantry) author really enjoyed it as well. I could absolutely see a civilian with nothing to draw on leaving that theatre thinking its "just a dumb propaganda piece"... but this story isn't really about MastaSniper 9000s kill count or how great our country is. It is about how a man like that feels; in combat and back at home.
 
Khane

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bixxby_sl said:
C'mon son you're smarter than that. Things can be both, it was made by a crazy old right wing coot who talks to god damn ghosts in public about an american ubermensch.
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I'm smart enough to not give a shit about the politcal underpinnings of something made by Hollywood blow hards. I just enjoy it (or hate it) for what it is. A movie.
 
Adebisi

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BrutulTM

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I'm asking the question based on the trailer. What? back at ya.
 
chaos

chaos

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Eidal_sl said:
I'm an Afghanistan combat veteran and I enjoyed the movie. It captured very well the emotional cocktail of:

frustration // we're here for goals that aren't well-aligned with the average sergeant, that our friends are being hurt and killed, that shit is going on back home and duty is pulling us in different directions...

fear // the man with the jacked up face in the hospital bed freaking out because he tried to push his girl away because she "deserved better"... that was on many of ours minds but men don't really talk about this shit very well. but given the nature of the threat in AFG (bombs), losing one's legs (or penis) was a very real fear and no one wanted to return from war as a dependent.

anger // a lot of things are a big WTF out there, can just leave it at that.

That scene with the brother on the tarmac, haunted look on his place "fuck this place man". It isn't what I'd call PTSD, but that feeling of isolation upon returning home. Think about how you could be helping out more and if you "deserve" to be back home. Think about things you could have done differently, that might have seen a friend come back home that won't be. There is a reason a USMC infantry battalion waits a few weeks before releasing its men on post-deployment leave: gotta keep an eye on everyone initially. That scene with Chris Kyle at the end where he's at the bar because he "needed a moment" and his wife is like "wtf why aren't you coming home to your family". Just thinking about it again makes me start tearing up.

Anyway I'll stop rambling. I think a lot of people wanted some deep commentary about the nature of war and weren't interested (or prepared) to follow a more visceral/emotional experience. I wonder what combat veterans as a whole think about it -- small sample size but I know the terminal lance (former USMC infantry) author really enjoyed it as well. I could absolutely see a civilian with nothing to draw on leaving that theatre thinking its "just a dumb propaganda piece"... but this story isn't really about MastaSniper 9000s kill count or how great our country is. It is about how a man like that feels; in combat and back at home.
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I was in the Navy, that's almost the military, I get it. Eastwood just didn't do a very good job of getting that stuff across in the movie, you are filling in the blanks with personal experience. I would love to have seen the movie that you described in your last paragraph, but I think this movie fails at being that.
 
Eidal

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I wasn't trying to impugn your military experience, chaos. I couldn't even remember who used that line. My wife is a CTI1 who has never left Georgia and my brother was a communications Marine who never left California. Out of my super-limited sample size, we've all enjoyed it, regardless of deployment history. I'm not sure "enjoy" is the appropriate term; there are many scenes in that movie that give me a visceral chill just thinking about them. I have to respect a film that can do that.
 
Eidal

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Famm_sl said:
'American Sniper' Is Almost Too Dumb to Criticize | Rolling Stone
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Not because I think people need to defend their movie likes/dislikes as if its some objective thing but...

This is the same Hollywood culture that turned the horror and divisiveness of the Vietnam War era into a movie about a platitude-spewing doofus with leg braces who in the face of terrible moral choices eats chocolates and plays Ping-Pong. The message of Forrest Gump was that if you think about the hard stuff too much, you'll either get AIDS or lose your legs. Meanwhile, the hero is the idiot who just shrugs and says "Whatever!" whenever his country asks him to do something crazy.

wat

edit: holy hell the author of that "review" is a fucking nutcase.
 
chaos

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Eidal_sl said:
I wasn't trying to impugn your military experience, chaos. I couldn't even remember who used that line. My wife is a CTI1 who has never left Georgia and my brother was a communications Marine who never left California. Out of my super-limited sample size, we've all enjoyed it, regardless of deployment history. I'm not sure "enjoy" is the appropriate term; there are many scenes in that movie that give me a visceral chill just thinking about them. I have to respect a film that can do that.
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Yeah I'm just fucking around, I was a CTO who also never deployed. But like everyone else in the military, I know tons of people who did.

There are definitely some good scenes in the movie. I like the initial scenes of his deployments, his interactions with the guys, etc.
 
Khane

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Bros, wasn't this movie supposed to be about how he was a normal, effective human being when shooting people but a total weirdo when he wasn't? Because I was all "I'd have a beer with this dude" when he was deployed but all "The fuck is wrong with this guy?" when he was at home. Until the end when he was talking to people who had gotten their legs blown apart. Then he was cool again.
 
Izo

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Saw it todaw with a collegue. Meh. I have close friends who were deployed several times, Kosovo, Iraq, Afhanistan. I'm sure they enjoy this movie - as chaos notes, it's okay if you fill in the blanks. I just want my 10? back, stick my finger in my ears and pretend Clint Eastwood isn't a very old man who needs retirement bad.
 
BrutulTM

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No one should ever read Rolling Stone.

Speaking of varying levels of military experience, did any of you Navy guys listen to the episode of This American Life where they went to an Aircraft Carrier? I had to laugh at the girls who were saying "people talk about you like you're a hero for being in the navy, but all I do is refill vending machines".
 
chaos

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Yeah, I listened to that one. I felt kind of the same way. People would come up to me in public fawning all over me, thanking me for my "service" or my "sacrifice", and it is awkward, especially since I just did secure comms. I was definitely not The Legend.
 
Fadaar

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I didn't ever see combat, but I did directly support combat operations (flightline avionics on F-15E's) when deployed. Never really felt like I was doing anything special, at the end of the day it's just a job. Thankfully it was a job that translated very well to the civilian side both in terms of pay and demand.
 
Adebisi

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I played some America's Army back in the day. My favourite map was bridge crossing.
 
Lithose

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Eidal_sl said:
Not because I think people need to defend their movie likes/dislikes as if its some objective thing but...

This is the same Hollywood culture that turned the horror and divisiveness of the Vietnam War era into a movie about a platitude-spewing doofus with leg braces who in the face of terrible moral choices eats chocolates and plays Ping-Pong. The message of Forrest Gump was that if you think about the hard stuff too much, you'll either get AIDS or lose your legs. Meanwhile, the hero is the idiot who just shrugs and says "Whatever!" whenever his country asks him to do something crazy.

wat

edit: holy hell the author of that "review" is a fucking nutcase.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he really is. He's also misinformed about a lot of issues that he supposedly has a problem with. But when you boil down Forest fucking Gump to that insane conclusion, what can you expect? As someone in the notes said; his opening paragraph says all you need to know. "I hated this movie a little less than I expected"--he went in looking for flaws, he found some (The movie has quite a few) and then expanded on those flaws with his nut case philosophical conclusions about morality and narrative.
 
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