Artifact - The DOTA Card Game

Brand

Molten Core Raider
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I've spent 20 on tickets and the initial 20. I've still got 16 tickets left. I've played about 18 drafts in the expert mode. I really enjoy the game, but I find myself wanting more. I haven't delved into constructed at all. I really want the game to catch on, but the FTP trolls really did a number on the roll-out hype. I'm not sure how you recover from a poor launch...In my experience, it is very rare for a game to get legs and grow appreciably after launch.
 

slippery

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The game isn't really watchable either. Twitch viewership is terrible. The game is too complex to watch without knowing how it works, and even then if you don't know what the cards do it's still rough. Plus most people don't think out loud so you really just don't get it. I'm able to watch hotform, bloodyhs, and jonah, that's about it
 

shishare

Golden Knight of the Realm
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It's also not very fun to play from what i have seen. I gave it an honest try, both draft and constructed, and while challenging, it's just not enjoyable.

just my personal 2 cents though. Probably just gonna sell all the cards on marketplace and try and recoup what i spent
 

Pyros

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The game isn't really watchable either. Twitch viewership is terrible. The game is too complex to watch without knowing how it works, and even then if you don't know what the cards do it's still rough. Plus most people don't think out loud so you really just don't get it. I'm able to watch hotform, bloodyhs, and jonah, that's about it
I pointed that out before but I don't think it's any harder to understand than say Hearthstone. The only reason HS has a big viewership is because it has a big playerbase, so there's many people who know how it works.

I use my own experience when I say that but everytime they release a new expansion, I'm curious about the new decks and stuff(I just watch streams, haven't played since like, Naxx). But the fact is I spend several hours not having any idea what's going on in most of these games until I've seen each new cards being played. Sure I could open a deck building website and read all the cards but I don't want to do that it's a fucking waste of time and I wouldn't necessarily remember shit either. So every expansion it takes a while to follow what's going on with the new decks and stuff.

And that's HS, it's really simple, but the fact is, if you don't know the cards beforehand, any card game is going to suck to watch, even if you know how they're played. I don't think Artifact rules are really complicated, it's complicated to play right, but not to understand what's going on. But if you don't know the cards everything is confusing, just like any other card game.

Or say, MOBA too. Watching LoL worlds without keeping at all with the game can be a pain sometimes. Sure I recognize champions because they don't add that many constantly anymore, but 3/4 of them also play differently than the last year I saw them(or the year before if not very common). The champions which stay the same are rare. I saw Leblanc at this year's world and was surprised that she looked basically exactly the same(might be numbers tweaks and shit but still). Meanwhile you have fuckers like Sion and I don't even know what he does anymore. The model changes also don't help in that regard. Dota is the same. You can understand the rules of mobas in like, 2mins flat, it's really simple shit, even basic skills effects is your average RPG stuff, stuns, silences, slows, roots, it's all common terminology. But once you start combining it with all the 100+heroes/champions with 4+ skills each, it gets really messy until you learn most of them.

I think the low viewer count isn't because the game isn't viewer friendly. I think the low viewer count is because of the low player count. More players means more viewers, because players can understand what they watch while non players rarely do. I think games like CSGO, SFV and SC2 are a lot easier to watch without shit about the game but once you start throwing classes/cards/skills/items etc into the mix it basically becomes "either watch this for 5hours or play the game to understand the stream".
 

slippery

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I agree with you about watching mobas, but there are lots of games that are enjoyable to watch without ever having played. I watched a ton of pubg before ever playing. Lots of the games variety streamers play are enjoyable to watch without knowledge. IDK
 

Chimney

Trakanon Raider
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Haven't played since the 29th. There is just no driver to log in with all the card games available that I can jump in and get 3-4 games in for every 1 in Artifact and it's not enjoyable to watch at all even knowing how the game works and what the cards do. It's like the equivalent of watching someone play a Teferi deck in MTG, but every single game.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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I pointed that out before but I don't think it's any harder to understand than say Hearthstone. The only reason HS has a big viewership is because it has a big playerbase, so there's many people who know how it works.

I use my own experience when I say that but everytime they release a new expansion, I'm curious about the new decks and stuff(I just watch streams, haven't played since like, Naxx). But the fact is I spend several hours not having any idea what's going on in most of these games until I've seen each new cards being played. Sure I could open a deck building website and read all the cards but I don't want to do that it's a fucking waste of time and I wouldn't necessarily remember shit either. So every expansion it takes a while to follow what's going on with the new decks and stuff.

And that's HS, it's really simple, but the fact is, if you don't know the cards beforehand, any card game is going to suck to watch, even if you know how they're played. I don't think Artifact rules are really complicated, it's complicated to play right, but not to understand what's going on. But if you don't know the cards everything is confusing, just like any other card game.

Or say, MOBA too. Watching LoL worlds without keeping at all with the game can be a pain sometimes. Sure I recognize champions because they don't add that many constantly anymore, but 3/4 of them also play differently than the last year I saw them(or the year before if not very common). The champions which stay the same are rare. I saw Leblanc at this year's world and was surprised that she looked basically exactly the same(might be numbers tweaks and shit but still). Meanwhile you have fuckers like Sion and I don't even know what he does anymore. The model changes also don't help in that regard. Dota is the same. You can understand the rules of mobas in like, 2mins flat, it's really simple shit, even basic skills effects is your average RPG stuff, stuns, silences, slows, roots, it's all common terminology. But once you start combining it with all the 100+heroes/champions with 4+ skills each, it gets really messy until you learn most of them.

I think the low viewer count isn't because the game isn't viewer friendly. I think the low viewer count is because of the low player count. More players means more viewers, because players can understand what they watch while non players rarely do. I think games like CSGO, SFV and SC2 are a lot easier to watch without shit about the game but once you start throwing classes/cards/skills/items etc into the mix it basically becomes "either watch this for 5hours or play the game to understand the stream".

Pyros, love you dude, but this post illustrates how out of touch you are with standard human viewing habits. People don't give a shit about the minute details of a game (or show, or sport) that they watch. It's big picture shit that draws you in and hooks you.

The details of the cards isn't why HS succeeds and Artifact fails, the same way anyone watching PUBG or Fortnite don't need to know the details of the weapons and the same reason MOBA is watchable isn't the champion abilities.

The key to success is being able to easily see big picture items & strategic options.

In Hearthstone for example, you see the entire board always, unlike Artifact. And a viewer can easily gauge strength by looking at 3 things: Health totals, Board State, Hand State. At a quick glance you can see all 3 and get an idea of the flow of the game. Artifact hides this and makes it much harder to assess due to the 3 boards. 3 Board states, 3 Health totals, etc etc. I still haven't played the game but that's what I gathered from streams.

Board State & Card State don't need you to know the details either, in HS it's mostly. "How many bodies are on board?" and "How many cards are in hand?" . Usually the bigger numbers means you're doing well in HS.

Additionally, big picture items: Ranking & Arena Wins are clearly displayed and known. If I load up a HS stream and the guy is rank 20, I'm turning it off. But if I'm seeing Dog fighting for Rank 1 Legend.. I'm keeping it on.

I don't know what the big picture shit is in Artifact. No ranking right? I don't know who's skilled and who's a noob. Lets be honest here, most people don't want to watch noobs.

BR games succeed because you follow the 1 guy around the map and as long as he's alive you know he's doing well and you can root for him.

MOBA games succeed because you have knowledge of the entire map and can easily see team strategy unfold due to the top-down view.

Tons of players does not make for a successfully streamed game. Look at Overwatch which only has good numbers because of the OW League. Otherwise it's been quite low for a popular game. OW is just a hard game to watch, and they added a ton of tech for the OW League to try and make it more viewable. Some games are just a shit viewing experience... Artifact falls into that category.

Now that said, Artifact could probably do some things to make it watchable, but sounds like they have more important tasks to take care of first. Ranking is probably the biggest item they could add to make it watchable. If I know I'm watching a top 20 player, I might actually try to watch. I believe Savjz just made a twitter post about this exact thing. So maybe Artifact starts getting viewers once there's ranking.
 
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Delly

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Artifact update coming this week. Main things being updated are chat/emotes. Someone replied to their tweet about progression and the Artifact twitter replied with "We hear you."

 

slippery

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Patch few hours ago, has some good stuff Artifact - Call to Arms

Patch Notes
New Features (Call To Arms):

  • Added two new decks: Death From Above and Dark Aggro.
  • Added random mode: each game you'll be given a new random deck from the Call To Arms gauntlet.
  • Added maximum win-streak leaderboards for each deck with Global and Friends filters.
New Features (Chat):

  • Added unit chat wheels accessible in-game. Every creep and hero has custom voice lines accessible by pressing 'Y' when hovering that unit, or by doing a long hold of the left mouse button. Towers and improvements also support the chat wheel.
  • Unit chat wheels have an option for custom lines to allow general in-match chat.
  • Added the ability to request a Steam Chat with your current opponent either during the game, accessible through their nameplate in the HUD, or from the end-of-match screen.
  • Opponent’s chat wheel messages can be muted, either through the in-game or through the message itself.
New Features (Tournaments):

  • Added new Free-For-All tournament type. This is a less-structured mode where all participants can play against each other (up to specified time or rematch limits). The event winner is determined by whoever has the most wins over the course of the event.
  • Added Open Tournaments. These are tournaments that are created and maintained automatically by Artifact. For this first release, each Open Tournament will last three hours and have between 16 and 64 players participating in a Free-For-All using only common cards.
  • Added the ability to adjust many tournament options after tournament creation, for instance maximum player count, series types, or rounds of Swiss.
New Features:

  • Added Color Blind Mode option: when enabled, this will separate card colors more on the luminance scale the in game and various UI.
  • Added Color Suit Banners option: when enabled, this will add flags to the face of each card representing its color.
  • Added Bot Gauntlet where after each win you will go up against a tougher deck.
Bug fixes:

  • Fixed the 'Minimize Shop' button not appearing during the shopping phase if you had no cards in your hand.
  • Fixed an issue where optional unit ‘subtitle’ chat bubbles would sometimes not follow animating cards.
  • Fixed an issue where users with IMEs enabled couldn't use certain keyboard shortcuts (eg., spacebar for pushing the pass coin).
  • Fixed an issue where you could unintentionally add multiple copies of the cards required to complete your set before making a Steam Market purchase.
  • Fixed the deck editor text filter not doing partial matches for Hangul characters.
  • Fixed an issue where cards cloned by Ogre Magi's Multicast or ...And One For Me that were later locked wouldn't have the visual lock indicator in hand.
  • Fixed an issue where sometimes the deck editor would unhelpfully remember an earlier state when loading initially (eg., your deck from a completed draft).
  • Fixed Path of the Wise taking an unnecessarily long time to return control to the player.
  • Fixed a client crash that would happen when previewing certain effects on a card that was about to be destroyed by an opponent action.
  • Fixed a rare client crash after an opponent played certain cards.
  • Fixed a rare client crash when looking at a tower's damage preview tooltip in unusual cases.
Other:

  • Easy bot difficulty is now a little easier.
  • Updated the localization files.
 
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Delly

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Just before people flip out -

"While finishing this update we've also been working hard on the next update, that we expect to ship next week and which is focused on a skill-based progression system."
 

gshurik

Tranny Chaser
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I'm so glad they've changed their mind on balance too.

I'm up for playing again now
 

pharmakos

soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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still haven't bit the bullet on this game yet

am i understanding correct in that, even past the initial buy-in to play the game at all, it is quite difficult to progress further without spending additional money?
 

gshurik

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still haven't bit the bullet on this game yet

am i understanding correct in that, even past the initial buy-in to play the game at all, it is quite difficult to progress further without spending additional money?

Constructed will require more packs almost definitely.

You can play free draft forever though, which is a free to play mode where you draft a deck from packs.
 

pharmakos

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Constructed will require more packs almost definitely.

You can play free draft forever though, which is a free to play mode where you draft a deck from packs.

no tangible reward from free draft tho, right?

about how much extra would i have to pay to progress in constructed?
 

StoiCynic

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no tangible reward from free draft tho, right?

about how much extra would i have to pay to progress in constructed?

It looks like they literally just added ways to win 15 packs/event tix per season (one month?) by leveling up. pretty sure that includes free draft.
 
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gshurik

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no tangible reward from free draft tho, right?

about how much extra would i have to pay to progress in constructed?

I just looked into it, 15 packs per season atm, and some tickets to play for better prizes.
 
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DonBenno

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These are great changes to an already great tcg. I am baffled by the amount of nagetivity the game has received. The only big change I think that is required is to change rewards on wins in pay draft games to give you a ticket profit rather than just returning your 1 ticket.

The level of depth and tactics required to be good at draft is great.

I'm 20 paid draft games in and still improving every game.