Avengers: Endgame (2019)

Jive Turkey said:

What rules didn't they follow? People keep saying that, but never bother to get specific. Apart from Cap at the end, which could be explained away and doesn't really matter anyway as it doesn't affect the plot, what did they fuck up exactly?

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the rules they set up are absolutely broken when cap goes back to the SAME timeline and can't be explained in any other way than by using theories that haven't been otherwise introduced. if cap didn't go back to the same timeline, then i agree, everything else appeared to be using actual quantum physic theories. but as soon as we see old cap sitting there on the bench, it becomes in-your-face obvious that this was all a single timeline.

and like i said, the conversation with the ancient one confirms this. she says she can't give up the time stone because she needs it to keep the universe safe. hulk says that strange gave up the time stone and ancient one has the epiphany that strange did was he was supposed to. she doesn't argue that "YOU'RE strange did that, not ours." she doesn't argue that strange doesn't ever become the sorcerer supreme. she doesn't argue ANYTHING that would confirm the many worlds theory. her point of view is that their present is her destined future.

sure we can IMAGINE that there's a way old cap came back using some stark teck that he got from his new timeline, but the movie does nothing to actually set that up. there's no actual discussion had of hopping from one timeline to another, it's only about creating NEW timelines.

Nester said:

I did not love DS on my first viewing, but found it really grew on me with multiple views,

The AO told us in DrS, that she looked into her own future and could not see past a point. Its interesting how that gets expanded on in Endgame. It really hits you in the face that she new Strange would be the best of the Supremes when she tossed him out her door lol. Another rewatch with this new perspective is in order.

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How could she know Strange would be 'the best of us' when she couldn't see past her own death? How come Strange could see past his own death 14,000,604 times to find the 14,000,605th time where he was snapped back to life?

Gavinmad said:

How could she know Strange would be 'the best of us' when she couldn't see past her own death? How come Strange could see past his own death 14,000,604 times to find the 14,000,605th time where he was snapped back to life?

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Multiverse. He literally flipped through available timelines where they start at that current point in time (Thanos on Titan) and found the one where he comes back eventually (one in which he gives up the stone and Iron Man Iron Mans). Which also jives with their current time travel mechanics.

Gavinmad said:

How could she know Strange would be 'the best of us' when she couldn't see past her own death? How come Strange could see past his own death 14,000,604 times to find the 14,000,605th time where he was snapped back to life?

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well, on one hand, it's entirely possible that strange was playing around with the time stone more than any other supreme, so he was able to use that to see past is own death...

on the other hand, the people who wrote doctor strange weren't the people who wrote endgame.

i can't remember who pointed it out, but i'd TOTALLY be up for kang as the next big bad. he notices people messing around with time travel and he could see himself as the time police and be like, listen, if you're going to start mucking around with time travel, i need to come in and subjugate you so you don't break everything.

Gavinmad said:

How could she know Strange would be 'the best of us' when she couldn't see past her own death? How come Strange could see past his own death 14,000,604 times to find the 14,000,605th time where he was snapped back to life?

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A wizard did it.

j00t said:

the rules they set up are absolutely broken when cap goes back to the SAME timeline and can't be explained in any other way than by using theories that haven't been otherwise introduced. if cap didn't go back to the same timeline, then i agree, everything else appeared to be using actual quantum physic theories. but as soon as we see old cap sitting there on the bench, it becomes in-your-face obvious that this was all a single timeline.

and like i said, the conversation with the ancient one confirms this. she says she can't give up the time stone because she needs it to keep the universe safe. hulk says that strange gave up the time stone and ancient one has the epiphany that strange did was he was supposed to. she doesn't argue that "YOU'RE strange did that, not ours." she doesn't argue that strange doesn't ever become the sorcerer supreme. she doesn't argue ANYTHING that would confirm the many worlds theory. her point of view is that their present is her destined future.

sure we can IMAGINE that there's a way old cap came back using some stark teck that he got from his new timeline, but the movie does nothing to actually set that up. there's no actual discussion had of hopping from one timeline to another, it's only about creating NEW timelines.

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Pretty sure the way the movie puts it, any time you jump the timelines separate. So Cap jumped back to what would have been an EQUIVALENT point in their timeline 70+ years back, but anything from the instant he arrives until he jumps back has ZERO consequence on the MCU timeline.

Fadaar said:

Pretty sure the way the movie puts it, any time you jump the timelines separate. So Cap jumped back to what would have been an EQUIVALENT point in their timeline 70+ years back, but anything from the instant he arrives until he jumps back has ZERO consequence on the MCU timeline.

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well yes, that's what the movie TELLS you. except then he shows up on the bench 70 years older. meaning he DIDN'T go to an equivalent timeline, he went back in HIS OWN timeline.

honestly, it's really not worth debating over. the movie takes a ton of time to tell you one thing, but then does a completely different thing just for the sake of happy ending for cap, which i can get behind. but the bottom line is that the movie broke it's own rules. it's not the end of the world or anything. it's just evidence that time travel plots are extremely difficult to do and be consistent about

Cap fighting with Mjolnir brought out that little kid in me, awesome moment.

Disappointed no real smash, but the funny Hulk scenes helped a little.

Even if not intentional, I got a bit of a chuckle at the girl power moment, kinda seemed like like a FU to Captain Marvel, "Bitch we we already kicking ass for years, without your shoehorned in longback" I don't care that's gonna be my memory of the scene from now on, especially with CM getting punched the fuck out of the movie, as someone else put it lol.

Want to nerdrage and pick at non-powered human dude wielding the infinity stones long enough to snap, or even have the power to even influence a single one of them, but nah, I'll let them have that one. Comics have done crazier shit, and I'm pretty sure various non-powered people were using the stones in the comics anyway.

a c i d.f l y said:

But... It didn't. You just don't get how it works.

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okay. explain to me how cap gets back to the "primary" universe without introducing something that the movie didn't already introduce

Tony also had tons of data on the mind stone from its time in Vision's head as well as whatever information the various factions on Earth had for the space stone. As ridiculous as him wielding a fully powered gauntlet is, it does make sense that he'd be able to craft a glove to keep their powers at bay until the snap itself.

j00t said:

okay. explain to me how cap gets back to the "primary" universe without introducing something that the movie didn't already introduce

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Clearly Cap stayed in in the alternate timeline for 70 years, then build a new time machine for himself, jumped back to the original timeline, drove out to the forest to pass on the torch to Falcon and to ignore Bucky. That seems reasonable right?

What I want to know is how the fuck they can go on and on about how it would be impossible to bring a dead character back because of how they died, but then they bring back a character that died the exact same way lol.

They also kind of fucked with the plot arc of Thor and turned Thanos from a guy who thought he had to do a terrible thing for the good of everyone to a guy that was like fuck it i'll just kill everyone. Also his original plan sucked since the universe would just repopulate in in a few hundred years if he couldn't keep snappin.

The more I think about the movie the less I like it. Also are we just not using spoiler tags anymore?

1080p is up.... Lol. That didn't take long.