Azrayne's drug geek thread

But do you even lift bro?

Famm_sl said:

But do you even lift bro?

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I do, but I'm not a creatined, max-pump, juicer. I ain't modeling underwear or competing in any strongman contests. I need to be fit for work and I like to know what I'm capable of if shit goes wrong and it's me alone in the woods for 30 days. Ain't no MAXX BLASST to be found there.

Xevy_sl said:

I do, but I'm not a creatined, max-pump, juicer. I ain't modeling underwear or competing in any strongman contests. I need to be fit for work and I like to know what I'm capable of if shit goes wrong and it's me alone in the woods for 30 days. Ain't no MAXX BLASST to be found there.

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So you are saying you do crossfit?

Azrayne have you ever done dusters?

Firewater Burns_sl said:

So you are saying you do crossfit?

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If I did you would've heard about it after my first class, dude.

Az did I read correctly that you did Meth? If so how did rationalize doing that over something like cocaine which if I recall you said you've never done? Was it some rave party thing or did you seek it out to try it?

This is just a by the by comment. I work in an ICU, we have access to ativan, midazolam, dexmedetomidine, fentanyl, morphine, hydromorphone just off the top of my head. I'll be honest, never been curious to retain any of the waste syringes or anything. But then I've never smoked (tobacco or weed) or taken drugs, so perhaps thats why. That and it's not even remotely worth losing my job over. Interesting to read about a habitual / intentional users experience.

Edit: Forgot the ketamine and the chloral hydrate. Oh and the zopiclone.

^ That's some great stuff mixed in with some crap. Personally if I had that selection available I'd grab the morphine, hydromorphone and ketamine, maybe the fentanyl and ativan since they're there anyway, and leave the rest.

Az did I read correctly that you did Meth? If so how did rationalize doing that over something like cocaine which if I recall you said you've never done? Was it some rave party thing or did you seek it out to try it?

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Meth is actually healthier than cocaine in a lot of ways. Certainly much less likely to trigger an acute stroke/heart attack out of nowhere. Meth has an LD50 - the dose at which 50% of subjects die - of roughly 50grams for the average adult male (can't remember the exact figure per kg of bodyweight, but I'm sure you can find it on google), whereas cocaine has one of 7grams. That isn't to say I'd survive if I ate 40 grams of meth, the way they calculate this stuff is a bit weird, but it gives you an idea of the relative toxicity. The TLDR is that while all stimulants strain your heart through the constant release of adrenaline keeping your heartrate and bloodpressure abnormally high, cocaine also has a strong vasoconstrictive effect (shrinks your veins) which iirc is due to the local anaesthetic properties. Combined with some other factor I've forgotten to do with the heart (I think it was the triggering of arrhythmia's? I dunno, not having been into coke I didn't research it much, and it's been years since I a lot of reading on stims at all), it's basically the perfect recipe for triggering cardiovascular problems and killing you dead. And unlike most drugs, where the death is caused by a controllable factor - dose or doing stupid shit or being dumb enough to take tainted drugs - with coke you can just randomly carc it while partying, especially if you don't have a great heart or if you're already predisposed to arrhythmia's or whatever.

On the flip side, as I've already said, meth is neurotoxic (not as bad as MDMA by a mile, but probably on par with alcohol ie. it takes serious consumption for damage to visibly manifest, but it's definitely not good for brain cells), whereas coke isn't. Meth is also less likely to have active cuts or be a straight up substitute drug, although more likely to have leftovers from the cooking process, especially if you're using domestic product cooked by some fuckhead bikie.

But mostly what it came down to is the whole issue of Australia being ages away from where they produce cocaine, making our coke both shit and absurdly expensive and so not very common, whereas they pump out a ton of meth both locally and, more recently, just to the north in SEAsia which people use in it's place as a drug to keep up and partying (which is part of the problem, in 2010 just as the MDMA drought had settled in to stay, they started really buckling down on the importing of A grade crystal meth from Asia, and since people need something to keep them awake dancing all night...). I went into the issue in more detail a few posts back:

As an interesting example, in my 8 years of drug use, I've never used cocaine. Ever. Given that Australia is an island continent a considerable distance from South America, the streets aren't exactly flooded with it, and what we do get is both low quality (ie. imported around 30 - 60%, from what I remember) and extremely expensive - the average gram on the street will set you back $400AUD (about $300USD right now). Now all of our drugs are relatively expensive due to this Island Continent problem (although we're better off than places like New Zealand, Alaska and most of Scandinavia), but paying $400 (when the average income is A$75,603) for what will be, if you're lucky, 20% coke, is insanity. Obviously people do it, but it's primarily two demographics - people connected to importers who have access before it goes from the importers to the bikies to the dealers, getting cut each time, or a small niche of well off bankers, actors, "local celebrities" and the like (and the dealers who sell it to them) who do it primarily as an image thing, and just care that they can be seen emerging from the bathroom with a little bit of white powder theyaccidentallyforgot to wipe away from their nose at whatever club or party or magazine launch party they're at. If it actually keeps them awake to drink more overpriced champagne, they won't complain, but it's 90% an image thing, the actual high is secondary. It's also pretty much nonexistent outside of Sydney and Melbourne, with a bit making it's way north to the Gold Coast and Qld, since those are the places where the finance industry/celebrity culture/shipping lanes collide (heroin is also rare outside of Sydney and Melbourne, although that's mostly due to the shipping lane thing - apparently there's a fair bit in Perth which is brought back via. the Army bases located in Western Australia, but that might just be hearsay, so don't quote me on that).

The result of this (as well as being located just south of the Golden Triangle, which realized about 20 years ago that they could make a lot more money if they put industrial size meth labs next to their poppy fields) is that meth is the go-to stimulant in Aus, and not just white trash coke like it is in the US. It's actually fairly expensive ($300 will get you half a gram, it's generally sold in points, bags of 100mg, for $70), but it's also reasonable to very high quality due to the sheer quantity which goes around, so people figure they can buy a $400 gram of coke and snort it over 3 or 4 hours, or buy a $70 point of meth which will keep them going 12 - 24 hours, depending on the quality.

It's primarily a middle class drug, but it goes across the entire spectrum of society - it's massive in the IT industry for the long hours of being able to focus on coding, of course the entertainment and hospitality industries, in general it gets a lot of use just as a utilitarian drug to keep people awake and going. It's also a party drug - more or less any nightclub will have a resident dealer and people snorting/smoking in the parking lot (especially since the MDMA drought of '09 - '12, MDMA is back, but so many people got hooked on meth in the process that it's really dug in (and nearly killed the club scene in a lot of ways, people just stayed in their cars to smoke half the night, then stayed home to smoke, then stayed home to shoot up, and off they went), as well a lot of house parties and festivals. And of course it's incredibly addictive shit (especially since smoking is the most popular ROA - pipes are passed around at parties the same way a mirror loaded with coke might be at a party in the US, but smoking is intensely more addictive, and unlike coke you don't have to cook it into freebase to smoke), so a lot of these people end up using more and more, becoming full timers, spending all their money on it, resorting to crime, falling apart physically and psychologically, etc etc. It's not pretty, I've seen it happen to a shitload of people I had fun with back in the day and it sucks because the shit is everywhere and there's no pharmaceutical option for treatment like there is with opiates.

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Azrayne have you ever done dusters?

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As in the cleaning products people huff to get high? No, and I've never known anyone who's done it, only know it's a thing because of the internet. Nitrous is really, really easily to get here (you can buy big boxes of the stuff and the crackers to inhale it from most supermarkets), so huffing cleaning products is not really something people do that I know of. Nitrous is nice, a great way to relax after a night out, but it's got this weird combination of being ridiculously fiendish when it wears off immediately (seriously, I've never tried another drug which gives such an immediate and intense urge to redose - probably because it has such a short duration, kind of a blue balls effect) and yet not at all addictive once it's had an hour or two to wear off. People will get into arguments about how long it's taking to pass the cracker around the circle, then two or three hours later they'll be all "eh, cbf" if someone suggests going to the shop for more. I guess this lack of long term addictiveness is why the government hasn't cracked down on it being sold (I'd imagine it's also a big profit maker for supermarket/convenience store chains, which doesn't hurt, same way that codeine products make up a huge part of the income of pharmacies here).

The only other inhalant I've tried is poppers, which I tried once or twice at raves. It gives a nice weird headrush which felt good on MDMA, but I hated the lingering smell, and it wasn't really something that was floating around a lot in that scene.

I don't do drugs, don't drink, and don't whore around. Luckily a lot of you guys do, and I can safely glean life lessons from your experiences. Respekt.

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Well I'm not into hookers, but I guess J49 has that covered. I'm not sure about 'a lot,' relative to the size of this board. Although (speaking for the Aussie community, I get the impression it isn't as big a crossover in America) you'd be amazed how many gamers, and MMO players in particular, use meth. I think it's partly that there's a bit of a crossover between gamer/geek culture and rave culture, partly that meth is just so big here in general, and partly that meth and WoW just go together really well. Meth keeps you awake and alert so you can play more, and WoW is the perfect meth activity, cheap, endless, repetitive, perfectionist and social. You'll see constant references to meth in character/guild names the way you do to weed on US servers and most guilds have at least at least one or two people who get on it regularly.

That's why I stayed away from needles. Especially when I realized how addicted I had become to coke, it made me, for the first time, realize how addictive personality I am. But that last brutal weekend and recovery was enough to ensure I never touched it again. Here I am, seven years later...

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Good call - needles take things up to a whole other level of freakishness, especially with shorter lasting drugs, and I've heard stories about how fucked up IV coke binges get. 7 years is solid man, good work.

Did you know how dangerous opiate addiction was when you started down that path? Or did you not care, or was it a youthful "won't happen to me" sort of invincibility?

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It was a real mashup of factors. A bit of it was the "it won't happen to me thing." I mean nobody takes up drug addiction as a lifestyle choice, and there was a definite feeling that I was a bit more protected than most people cause I did a lot of research about the drugs I took, was careful with harm reduction methods, etc.

Of course, since I generally researched which drugs I was using carefully yeah, I was aware that they were addictive. But at the time I first tried oxy/morphine I'd been using meth on and off for 2 years without anything goingtooseriously out of control (and I wasn't old enough to have seen some of my friends go off the deep end, which happened to a lot of them), and of course your perspective is always a bit warped until you have a bit of hindsight from a sober perspective, so at the time I thought I was 100% on top of the whole meth thing, it was just another drug I did to have fun on the weekend, it was even good because it meant I didn't take MDMA as often and damage my serotonin receptors, etc. the weird mental gymnastics you do around drugs and only recognize in hindsight. I had been using high dose codeine frequently for a good chunk of the year and never really binged or anything, of course intellectually I knew stronger opiates would be more euphoric and addictive, but I figured I'd handled these other drugs and I could just control it with willpower and careful scheduling to avoid a habit and so on, the usual self justification. When you're in that state of mind, addiction is something that happens to a few rare other people who were probably seriously mentally ill and drugs are an unjustly maligned way of having a good time and experiencing new states of consciousness.

Then there was my natural curiosity - like I said my first MDMA experience really made me wonder what all the other drugs out there were like, and while at first that was restricted to "party drugs" I could take with friends, by this point I'd moved through most of those and was looking for something new and interesting.

And of course my life was in a pretty shitty place at the time. I had been extremely fatigued and in a fair bit of pain since the glandular fever knocked me out (I cannot stress how much the simple relief of pain from a drug adds to it's addictiveness - meth helped a lot here too) and the period I spent with the post-viral fatigue I mostly sat in my room gaming or sleeping or watching TV, so on top of being single for the first time in a while I was a bit isolated, I wasn't thrilled with my new job and I had a lot of psychological crap hanging over from my upbringing which I wasn't really processing. So I tried it out of curiosity intending to be cautious and make it an occasional thing, but all of those factors kind of snowballed with the direction my life went over the next year, more meth use cause I had a job so I could afford to buy drugs and go out = more opiates for the comedown, working long hours = back is more sore = more opiates for pain relief, study + work = stress = more opiates for relaxation, then when I stopped using meth after I got sick of how much it did my head in I just started spending all my disposable income on opiates instead. And the more I used them the more hookups I got and the more time I spent around people who used them.

So yeah, it was a complicated mashup of factors. My observation since has been that while nobody thinks they'll become addicted and not everyone does, those who intentionally seek out addictive drugs, who try and justify it by saying they're too smart or in control to get addicted, are definitely in the high risk category for actually ending up addicted. But I mean I can't back that up with a scientific survey or anything, just seems to be a strong trend, but that could be a result of my having spent so much time around harm reduction/drug geek/chemical thrillseeker types.

Tried Etizolam this weekend, shit is pretty fun.

Ethylphenidate as well, feels basically like coke light.

Never tried Ethylphenidate, but I've head good things - how does it compare to methylphenidate? If you have experience there. The IV stims crowd here shoot ritalin up fairly regularly as a cheap alternative to meth, and apparently it's pretty good that way (though the idea of injecting uppers doesn't appeal to me in general). Personally I've never tried either.

I bought some etizolam once, but either the source ripped me off (and I'd never had any problem with them before, the etaqualone from them was legitimate) or I lack some enzyme needed to metabolize it, because I went through 500mg in an afternoon and didn't feel a thing.

I wouldn't really recommend Ethylphenidate. It is extremely caustic, and the comedown can cause a lot of anxiety.

1 or 2 small doses is fine, but anymore than that is asking for trouble.

Yeah but that's pretty much every stimulant ever (although friends who've been over to South America say the coke there has a very mild comedown as long as you don't binge for more than a few hours).

Worst comedowns imo are from dexamphetamine. Wanted to blow my brains out after getting two bottles of the stuff and eating them like tictacs for 4 days, and even a single night on them will make you hate yourself afterwards - I think it's pretty fucked up they prescribe it to kids. On the bright side, the comedown is much shorter than meth and not as insidious, so it's easy to just "meh it's the drugs" and take a lazy afternoon reading a book or gaming.

What does my head in is that racemic amphetamine is a street drug in Europe and people eat that shit willingly, even allegedly inject it in parts of Scandinavia. You couldn't pay me to touch it, even racemic meth is pretty rough on the body and nowhere near as clean and smooth as regular d-meth (which always bugged me about Breaking Bad, when Walt goes from making d-meth with pseudo to racemic d/l-meth with P2P, he's basically massively downgrading his product, but that's when everyone starts going on about how amazing his shit is - I know it's just TV and all, but still, in real life he'd have to sell the blue meth at a 50% discount before anyone would buy it).

I'll just stick to my armodafinil and lisdexamfetamine dimesylate.

Modafinil is great stuff. Saved my ass at a show one time when I hadn't been to sleep from the night before and was too drunk / high on K.

Instead of passing out and getting kicked out, took the modafinil and I felt dead sober / awake, but not high in about 15mins.

Yeah it's brilliant. It's basically the perfect functional stimulant - it wipes away all your fatigue, focuses you and perks you up, but you don't go manic or get high, it doesn't put any huge strain on the body or mind, there's little if any comedown or other crazy side effects (I got a bit of jaw clenching the first few times I took it, and afterwards I'd occasionally get a mild headache, but that was about it). I took it daily for 3 months when I was recovering from an illness and the effects were amazing. I'm surprised it isn't something used by a lot more people, especially with how easy it is to obtain online.

neuroflexyn. Never heard of it. Just googled it, and 6 out of 10 of the top search results have tags saying they are false or misleading claims or un-trustworthy websites....

read this one:http://www.tripleeffectseyeserum.org...-is-it-a-scam/

I haven't tried that particular one, but I tried a similar supplement called Alpha Brain after a friend recommended it to me and can safely say that after consuming an entire course at the recommended dose (and slightly above it towards the end, just to see if it helped), I felt absolutely no effect. Nada. I also tried a supplement they make called New Mood, supposed to help with depression and anxiety, with a similar lack of any impact. Given the absurd pricing these supplements generally have, I wouldn't bother with it, I'm fairly certain all of these "brain/mood enhancer" supplement mashups being advertised online and sold for absurd prices are just a money making scheme. These days the only supplement I take is fish oil, which has an overall decent reputation, but even then I'm dubious enough that if it was any more expensive than the $20 or so I pay for 3 months worth, I wouldn't bother.

As a licensed medical provider of anesthesia I thought this thread was entertaining. Azrayne, when the day comes that you need surgery request a Dexmedetomidine infusion, it really helps the drug/alcohol user wake up more relaxed and in less pain from the opioid-induced hyperalgesia. I do have a question for the users, why do you refer to drugs in their generic name; hydromorphone, acetaminophen, diphenhydramine? Where as medical professionals, the people who give the stuff almost always use the trade names; dilaudid, Tylenol, benadryl.

Pro tip- if you take a benzo with PCP you will reduce/eliminate bad trips.