Bandwagon's Drones Thread

Bandwagon · Jun 27, 2016

That's not a stupid question at all.

It would go better if you did multiple passes with the SAME angle, but different directions.

So you could do an east-west flight plan and then follow it up with a north-South flight plan.
Either way, I'd start with a straight down flight plan first.

Lenardo · Jun 27, 2016

One thing i noticed with pix4d the few times i used it, there is your flyover box, then inside the box is a circle, that circle is where you get the highest level of detail/focus of the flyover,(well that and the first few times i tested, when i got the initial sketch from the cloud, the focus was off from where i wanted it to show-looking at the flight plan vs the picture received= hey that is a focus circle...) so make sure your circle encompasses where you want the flyover to focus.

quickest way imo to do the multiple pass is to use the same flight plan, just "twist" the box 90 degrees then resend it up.

pix4d asks you on setup if you want to auto-sync or not for the pictures, autosync mode automatically dl's the photos to your tablet/phone/whatever you use using for pix4d capture, and sends to cloud. ...not requires you to do so manually.

side note, damn field crew dropped their data collector today - which SUPPOSEDLY- is military grade droppable,,, looking at new ones now -will check it out later today as to what "broke" when they dropped it -: edit looks like it might be the battery pack. if it is, whew- only 100 bucks to replace that vs 2k to replace the data collector ---again, this one is only 2 years old.

looking at possibly upgrading from recon to a nomad DC... of course our new total station we got last year is a cygnus 102 which does not have bluetooth...wonder if a bluetooth adaptor would work round serial connector, to cable with rs232 plug to adaptor....

Bandwagon · Jun 27, 2016

So do you still get the ortho preview when using the capture app if you don't have a Pix4d pro license/ trial? It works with just the discovery version?

Bandwagon · Jun 28, 2016

I feel like I'm always sharing the good results / good news.

So, here's something from the other side-

Bad results caused by a hardware issue. The camera has been having some triggering issues lately. Camera company is still trying to figure out what is causing this issue. It's not widespread (with this camera, at least), and they haven't been able to recreate it during testing. They did send us a replacement camera, which has also had the same issue on 2 of the 3 flights we've done since installing it.
I did "catch" the problem during this flight, but I only noticed one of the 7 flights where the problem happened. We re-flew that section about 35 minutes later, which is why you can see an exposure difference running east-west right in the middle of the map. I missed a few of the small areas that had the triggering problem, which is what caused the checker board style exposure differences in 2 places, and the larger problem in the DSM.

The person that this was for is by far our most educated and demanding customer, and this was for a presentation with a large company in Seattle. I told him ahead of time that we were experiencing camera problems and I couldn't guarantee good results, but we would still go (and charge him either way) if he really wanted us to try. He did.

Normally, this would have been about $1300, largely because of the 2.5 hour drive. Since we use cloud processing for this camera and I don't pay for it because of our agreement with the camera company (which he is aware of), The quote was for $900.

I would really like to still bill him because we discussed the situation ahead of time and he still wanted us to go, but I can't bring myself to send him a bill for unusable results. I told him I'll break out the unaffected blocks and that this one will be a freebie.

Bah.
MicaSense Atlas - Imagery & Analytics for Precision Agriculture

edit:
Here is the 3rd flight with the replacement camera, and for the same customer. This flight did also have triggering issues (see image below with capture locations of the first flight), but I was a lot more careful in checking coverage after each flight. So, same problem, but a much more careful eye when checking image capture locations.
MicaSense Atlas - Imagery & Analytics for Precision Agriculture

Bandwagon · Jun 29, 2016

Vepil,

I'm trying to create a .TIN in qGIS, but not sure if I'm missing something here.

From what I understand, TIN is a method as well as a file type. So a triangulated irregular network can be generated by interpolating vector points (and output as multiple file types, including a .csv), but .tin is also an actual file type. Is this correct?

I've tried using LAS tools to generate a .tin in qGIS, but it keeps spitting back an error.

I've also tried using the interpolation plugin with .shp or a dsm .tiff, but the output is a .asc file.

Lenardo · Jun 29, 2016

looking at qgis & lastools

.tin is a file type - my autocad topo files are - caveat i use autodesk's land development desktop 2006 since we have had no need or desire to upgrade our cad system -paid one price, have it installed on cough cough 1 system cough cough....until the city of boston requires an higher file format than v2004 we are sticking with that

surface1.pnt - macpaint image (no idea what it does)
surface1.sdf - autodesk spatial data file
surface1.tin - tin file
surface1pnt.txt - test file

the sdf file looks like this:

[General]
Type=TIN
Revision=2
Dirty=0
[PointFiles]
File1=User Point File<inve:"";invc:"";t:"Number",0,8;t:"Easting",1, 8;t:"Northing",2,8;t:"Elevation",3,8;d:" ";m:"#";>"|SURFACE_DIR|\Surface1pnt.txt"
NumFiles=1
Include=1
[TinProperties]
Description=
CalculateWatershed=0
ComputeExStats=0
UseErrorLog=0
ApplyEdits=0
OptimizeContours=0
ApplyMinElevationFilter=0
MinDataElevation=0.000000
ApplyMaxElevationFilter=0
MaxDataElevation=0.000000
[PointGroups]
Include=1
[DEMFiles]
Include=1
[Contours]
Include=1
[Breaklines]
Include=1
Convert=1
[Boundaries]
Include=1
[Statistics]
NumPointsTotal=364
BoundingBox=(4847.449319,4913.749243)-(5693.731177,5627.989509)
MinEasting=4847.449319
MinNorthing=4913.749243
MinElevation=105.040000
MaxEasting=5693.731177
MaxNorthing=5627.989509
MaxElevation=208.848668
NumPointsFromPointFiles=365
NumPointsFromDEMFiles=0
NumPointsFromPointGroups=0

the .pnt cannot be opened in open office (gives gibberish)
the .tin i cannot open in open office (gives gibberish)
and the text file looks like this:

# Softdesk DTM Point File Format Version 13.00
0 588.180412 55.194635 122.010000
0 535.756262 156.653220 128.200000
0 561.967017 154.839950 128.100000
0 581.405607 155.858244 127.700000
0 588.152912 143.948299 126.500000
0 590.011848 120.525490 125.300000
0 569.913401 127.029572 125.800000
0 543.368839 142.545734 126.600000
0 526.473587 145.084146 125.900000
0 505.652188 160.763807 130.400000
0 489.310053 163.485440 130.700000
0 471.337278 173.015748 132.900000
0 458.706043 165.569623 133.000000
0 474.574558 154.115019 131.000000
0 556.549551 116.014964 125.700000
0 581.464365 104.459835 124.700000
0 567.741350 90.680990 124.100000
0 536.999145 106.975488 125.000000
0 509.906226 121.157585 126.400000
0 480.332099 139.083873 129.400000
0 459.296385 152.134744 131.700000
0 479.545996 118.332310 128.000000
0 510.527204 99.575063 125.200000
0 554.690470 73.084985 122.500000
0 593.653196 49.648624 121.500000
0 647.563921 22.428034 120.000000
0 608.357515 14.433703 121.300000
0 564.660547 40.002026 121.900000
0 505.857685 74.989853 125.600000
0 465.952313 99.798075 128.100000
0 437.732245 117.258561 131.400000
0 441.695286 128.055192 131.600000
0 417.452906 142.950877 134.500000
0 423.737529 178.164118 136.400000
0 388.773907 165.307784 136.630000
0 393.174059 136.767831 136.200000
0 402.804516 137.571381 135.530000
0 429.884783 160.036521 135.000000
0 425.774920 159.409938 135.000000
0 472.490231 133.581699 129.400000
0 474.617122 127.941231 129.200000
0 561.851554 79.560845 122.800000
0 570.772271 73.607709 122.500000
0 617.255659 46.585440 121.600000
0 628.060727 221.665070 150.400000
0 595.199313 229.218917 151.390000
0 527.541300 94.695457 124.360000
0 563.179512 134.597435 126.200000
0 597.696110 118.551538 125.200000
0 673.640462 74.415304 137.400000
0 667.540882 89.391986 140.100000
0 669.585000 108.365760 137.300000
0 657.693709 122.551520 131.000000
0 658.741013 101.947715 128.100000
0 635.908220 104.393426 123.400000
0 652.888461 86.729965 123.400000
0 664.754304 58.136033 120.600000
0 613.031740 77.012849 122.300000
0 580.609721 98.434803 124.300000
0 549.973000 116.092158 125.500000
0 515.862286 124.810082 126.000000
0 523.042513 135.246671 124.400000
0 529.821780 127.015102 125.500000
0 486.130723 142.703000 129.500000
0 445.785558 138.813580 131.700000
0 417.518538 155.898413 134.800000
0 413.585714 160.318430 135.240000
0 388.781017 165.101025 136.670000
0 428.557863 157.075577 134.800000
0 489.087916 119.574711 127.800000
0 544.428627 86.433606 123.500000
0 605.819894 49.678219 121.600000
0 637.544379 33.251804 120.800000
0 679.585874 16.881016 119.000000
0 698.820037 -2.023125 117.410000
0 506.634181 198.409161 145.200000
0 532.252259 212.701461 146.100000
0 533.025843 206.060487 143.000000
0 537.007229 175.039755 139.100000
0 510.366399 182.124473 136.900000
0 487.809498 187.334671 138.700000
0 501.560423 152.965810 128.400000
0 459.276835 184.368491 138.600000
0 533.971220 162.108803 128.400000
0 547.597299 153.995684 127.000000
0 561.151837 163.193792 129.300000
0 560.070349 175.061812 135.200000
0 541.150313 160.298771 133.200000
0 566.204192 202.364119 138.900000
0 584.749498 186.534784 137.100000
0 606.734394 166.203106 134.200000
0 598.282315 156.292119 128.200000
0 619.267815 124.346871 125.400000
0 617.387955 137.448568 129.100000
0 629.564067 146.672423 132.500000
0 634.993989 155.978485 138.500000
0 610.828076 168.677029 142.000000
0 607.642015 191.568392 147.300000
0 617.352625 195.901791 148.110000

Lenardo · Jun 29, 2016

looking at lastools

you using las2dem?

never used this but let me see if i got this right...

no idea if this is right so bear with me from reading this bit in the read me:

las2dem -i lidar1.txt -i lidar2.txt -iparse xyz -o dem.jpg -hillshade -last_only

creates a temporary TIN from the last returns of the two ASCII files
'lidar1.txt' and 'lidar2.txt' using the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, entry on
each line as the x, y, and z coordinate, rasters hillside-shaded TIN
facets onto a grid with step size 5, and stores the resulting grid
in JPG format with 8 bit per pixel.

now i do not know how lidar does this, or if the setup has only 3 units per line and how they are separated- i'd need to know how many "columns" there are per line 3? 4? 5? space separated? comma separated? and need to look at how they are formated (easy to look at via wordpad or notepad the important info for me - at least initially for a topography i'd WANT the x y z coordinate- and a description (not needed for JUST topo) - my autocad has an import function where - since this is land survey x and y are e and n (east(x) and north(y)) so i would import into cad - if the text file only has those 3 numbers - for me- points, import/export points, import points - change format to either ENZ space delimited(or comma delimited if there are commas there) or if there is a 4th column enzd format- then after selecting that i'd import the points - which would automatically number them, then i'd goto terrain and run the terrain manager, create a surface, add all the points i just imported and then build the surface- which would generate the TIN. then tell it to create the contours.

not sure if this is right....or wrong, or whatever, i am just guessing with a quick glance at the program.

looking at civil 3d 2016 you can export a surface to DEM or LandXML no idea if this is helpful.

Bandwagon · Jun 29, 2016

Does the .tin need those other file types? The text file just looks like a csv of vector points. I wonder if I can put a few of my outputs in a folder and rename the folder to a .tin (like .kml -> .kmz )

Bandwagon · Jun 29, 2016

I was trying to use las2tin.

What you posted is part of my confusion, though. Some plugins or toolboxes will generate a TIN, but not the .tin file type.

So I can use the TIN method of interpolation to generate multiple file types, just not an actual .tin file.

Lenardo · Jun 29, 2016

ya reading the readme ya, cuz it goes, creates a temporary tin...shrug no idea

if you want you can shoot me over those lidar text files and i will look at the text file to see if i could just import straight and then i could dxf the resultant file. or you could cut and past a couple of lines of those here and i can check if i can just insert the data into cad via the import functionality with minimal effort..

now i have to EMAIL this stupid Architect and go, hey IDIOT the fucking lot is not SQUARE (it is a 90 and a half degree(basically) parallelogram ) your fucking 6 story building does not fit on the lot right,.,,skew it all- here is the cad file showing the lot lines- again-, USE IT this time....

Bandwagon · Jun 29, 2016

I can generate a dxf as well, and also view the las...just not seeing anything to generate a .tin

Arc supposedly has it as a quick conversion option

Lenardo · Jun 29, 2016

no worries

had to go out for ~hr to get my new deck boards delivered 31 20' boards- those will go up next week after the 4th, then stain/paint

Bandwagon · Jun 29, 2016

Bandwagon_sl said:
Just started a project that has serious potential to get us and the camera company a lot of national attention.

I don't want to say anything else until I see the NDA, but it's something we haven't seen anyone else do yet, and the camera company is pushing is hard to do it. Teasers, teasers.

Lenardo · Jun 29, 2016

rofl. a weed farm?

Bandwagon · Jun 30, 2016

A legal one, yes.
The community manager for the Washington State Department of Agriculture actually put us in contact with them.
It's pretty cool to call a state government office and ask them for contact info for legal cannabis operations.

Oh, and we got the cops called on us twice, which I also think is pretty awesome. Neighbors across the street from the first flight were concerned because they thought someone was spying on the "weed farm" with drones. We had a cop come out and yell through the gate, asking if we were the ones flying the drone. We told him that we were, we had permission, and we have written permission from the landowner and our authorization from the FAA available, if he would like to look at it. He said "Nope, that's ok. Just wanted to make sure someone wasn't spying on your operation".

I called the police department to give them my contact information as we were leaving and found out that the neighbors at the 2nd property also called the cops. To me, it's just cool to see this level of professionalism in marijuana, and that local law enforcement is also looking out for them.

Bandwagon · Jul 1, 2016

Met with the engineering guy again on Wednesday. Some light talk about future plans, but mostly we were discussing breaklines and TINs. Then he called me yesterday to ask if I could come in and meet his boss...which is apparently one of the owners of the company that bought his company. The talk went well, nothing concrete.
Just as we were wrapping up, another drone company just "dropped in" to chat with them. They haven't done any mapping work yet, but have about 4 years of experience doing photography from drones, and they just bought two eBees about a week ago. It was a ridiculously hilarious & awkward situation, which the engineering guy was chuckling at the whole time. Right before he brought them back (and after "the boss" had already left), the engineering guy said "I'll hear what they have to say, but just remember that [the boss] came here to meet you, not them". I like this guy.

So we all sat around for about 10 minutes chatting about nerdy shit. I actually really like the 2 guys from this other drone company. One of the things that one of them said was "Anytime someone asks if we can do something we haven't done yet, I just tell them 'We haven't done it yet so I'm not sure....but probably'". I think that's the perfect approach. The fact that they're cold-calling the same places I have also shows that they recognize their own limits and are looking to work with other people in the field. I wish they were based a LITTLE bit further away from us (they're about 45 minutes away), but not bad.
I felt like I walked out of that meeting with a little bit of....class? I just got up and said "Well if you don't need anything else from me, I'll head out and let you guys chat for a bit".
While I was in the process of telling one of my guys about the meeting, the other drone company actually called me and gave us a few compliments and asked if we would be willing to meet up with them for lunch some time. Pretty cool.

Anyways, just got an email from the engineering guy with this in it:

"2) I have run your name all the way to the top of our organization. One of the principals who is in my realm has committed to coming over to meet with us this month. I will let you know when he refines his schedule and see if we can make this work."

Guess it's time to get our business consultant up to speed. I had to text him to ask what "the principals who is in my realm..." even meant.

Vepil · Jul 4, 2016

My understanding of QGIS is they do not create an actual *.tin file but do a calculated TIN from csv, shp, ect and you make an export. The export will be an asc file however most people will want the raw data to create their own TIN since each software will calculate it differently. ESRI actually writes its own *.tin file but no other software will read the file.

I believe you are on the correct path creating the TIN in QGIS and exporting the results. What are you trying to accomplish with this file? Was this a request from someone? I have noticed a lot of people request items they do not understand the true meaning of. Such as "I want 2 benchmarks on my project." We gave the client benchmarks, those in our terms are vertical only. The client was upset however once we talked through this we came to an understanding the use of terms were not interchangeable and he really wanted "Control Marks" that included Northing and Easting.

Awesome news on the expanding the business front. The only way I would sell would be if I planned on moving to another part of the country. Sell the business and move to start it some where else.

Bandwagon · Jul 4, 2016

Vepil, I'm sure you know this, but I'll put it up just in case other people don't.

So, I create DSMs with what I do. The engineering company uses DTMs, and they typically use the points they shoot to create a TIN to represent the DTM.
Now I don't know if this *should* be their responsibility or mine and they're happy with the DSMs, but I would also like to figure out how to make a DTM.
I think they may want the .TIN file type just because that's what they're used to (and used to asking for), but I don't think it needs to be in that format. Just any DTM compatible with Autocad.

The contour lines I generate are also based on the DSM and include objects/trees/etc.

I've been working on something else as well, and I think it shows promise. I had an idea that I shared with the camera company and they jumped on it right away. That seems like a good sign to me, but it requires a tiny bit of GIS skill that I don't quite have yet.

I don't want to go into a ton of detail about it right now (because I'm lazy, not because i'm trying to keep it a secret), but I'd appreciate some help if you're willing. I'd really prefer to get someone on either skype or on the phone that can walk me through it the first time.

So, I have a single band .tiff where every pixel has a value of either 1 or 2 (see below). I want to create a vectored point out of every pixel with a value of 1, and then interpolate a DTM from those points.

What I THINK I need to do is:
1. Discard all pixels with a value other than 1.
2. Use the raster with the remaining pixels as a mask on the DSM (so that I can get XYZ coordinates from the DSM)
3. Convert the entire masked DSM layer to vector points
4. Interpolate between the points to create a DTM.

Steps 1 through 3 are what I have no idea on. I know there is supposed to be a SAGA plugin that does this, but I didn't have any luck when I tried it.
Something you'd be willing to help with? I'm not trying to get someone to do it for me, just hold my hand a bit and walk me through the first time, if possible.

Vepil · Jul 4, 2016

QGIS Plugins planet

Have a read of this and see if it helps I believe it very similar to your needed process and should help you get moving in the right direction.

They want the ground basically so you would need to flag areas that you cannot see ground as "obscured" or do the above process you outlined. The only thing I warn ya against is letting GIS get you in trouble assuming the ground in areas densely covered. This is an engineering nightmare when we get poor DTM's to work with. If you have an area with tree cover that is say wider than 50' then you are pushing the limits of a 2' contour interval of a ground run survey.

I am working today yes on the 4th we are behind on that 48" raw water line and I will need to turn in 90% plans July 13th so I will be a bit busy till probably August or so since 100% is due then at the buffer zoning hearing.

Bandwagon · Jul 4, 2016

I used the interpolation plugin in qGIS to generate a tin, but just as you can see in the image in your link, the output is a .asc. I just didn't see a way to make the .tin file type. Honestly, I think it will work, they just are under the impression that it's only a TIN if the filetype is .tin.

What you said about GIS assuming a surface is the ground is exactly what I'm trying to do with the above example.

Basically, use the multispectral camera to identify bare earth points ONLY, and discard everything else.
I'll read through your link again and give this another shot tonight. I've played around with most of processes listed in that guide, I just keep having issues. Not sure if it's user error or a problem with my qGIS install (or both), but at least I know I'm looking in the right area now.

Bandwagon's Drones Thread

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