Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

Lithose

Lithose

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Lyrical_sl said:
So you don't believe it's realistic for Batman to dodge a punch from Superman, yet you believe it's realistic for someone to strike with the power of Hiroshima?

Newsflash: Kryptonians aren't real.
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No, I don't believe either is realistic and that's the problem. Everything is set up by the rules of the writers,for their specific universes--and those rules changeCONSTANTLY. It's those rule changes, and not some quality of the characters, that allows them to exist together. Believing "because bat judo" is the reason why Batman can even exist around Superman is a trip into the utterly ridiculous. The reality is simple--because the writers said so, is the reason. That's it, becauseunrealisticexpectations are part of comics. But if we are talking Realism? Batman fighting people who challenge Superman? Is real retarded, even within the confines of the rules the comics set up for us. (One minute Batman gets broken by Bain, but the next Demogorgue the God Eater wasn't able to hurt him! Because...He's Batman.)

So the second someone brings up "realism", the answer isn't "zomg because Bat Judo level 15!"--it's "yeah, well, that's comics, man." In a comic, the rules of the universe change to suit your story arc--that's the reason why Batman doesn't get punched in half, or half the carbon atoms in his face fuse into freon and shit when Flash runs by.

 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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Lithose_sl said:
No, I don't believe either is realistic and that's the problem. Everything is set up by the rules of the writers,for their specific universes--and those rules changeCONSTANTLY. It's those rule changes, and not some quality of the characters, that allows them to exist together. Believing "because bat judo" is the reason why Batman can even exist around Superman is a trip into the utterly ridiculous. The reality is simple--because the writers said so, is the reason. That's it, becauseunrealisticexpectations are part of comics. But if we are talking Realism? Batman fighting people who challenge Superman? Is real retarded, even within the confines of the rules the comics set up for us. (One minute Batman gets broken by Bain, but the next Demogorgue the God Eater wasn't able to hurt him! Because...He's Batman.)

So the second someone brings up "realism", the answer isn't "zomg because Bat Judo level 15!"--it's "yeah, well, that's comics, man." In a comic, the rules of the universe change to suit your story arc--that's the reason why Batman doesn't get punched in half, or half the carbon atoms in his face fuse into freon and shit when Flash runs by.

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Somewhere in your mountains of text, there has to be a point in there.
 
K

Karloff_sl

shitlord
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Lyrical_sl said:
So you don't believe it's realistic for Batman to dodge a punch from Superman, yet you believe it's realistic for someone to strike with the power of Hiroshima?

Newsflash: Kryptonians aren't real.
Click to expand...
I'd argue with all the Batman white knighting your doing, it's quite possible your not real. Argue comic semantics all you want, Batman is just poorly written most of the time to shoehorn him into a super powered world.
 
X

Xasten_sl

shitlord
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The problem, as it's already been pointed out, isn't that he's simply "unrealistic"; it's that he's completely out of step with the rules of reality as established in the comic universe. Batman will be put into impossible situations, but he'll still win. This is because the writes will establish a sense of internal consistency for the universe that makes you think "wow, that really is impossible!"and then shatter it to make Batman win. It's poor writing to repeatedly disable the established narrative about reality just so one guy can do the impossible for the thousandth time. It's like they're not even trying any more. The comics might as well just have page that reads "Batman wins."

I'm pretty sure that this movie will have the same problem. I want this move to be awesome, but I don't have much faith. Ever since Man of Steel had Supes smashing cities, I've been questioning how they're going to make Bats relevant. They should've had a tank shoot superman and crack his ribs. The bullets should have stung him. They should have touched on his personal forcefield and mentioned just how exhausting it is for him to keep it up when taking large hits, and his max speed shouldn't be stupidly high. If he wants to break the sound barrier make him accelerate for a few minutes. This would have at least leveled the playing field for other heroes somewhat. I understand that part of his comic character is that he's literally a god, but that honestly makes for a pretty boring story.

A more vulnerable Superman would make for a much better story and it would keep us from having to go through "lol Batman I win" for the millionth time.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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Xasten_sl said:
The problem, as it's already been pointed out, isn't that he's simply "unrealistic"; it's that he's completely out of step with the rules of reality as established in the comic universe. Superman will be put into impossible situations, but he'll still win. This is because the writes will establish a sense of internal consistency for the universe that makes you think "wow, that really is impossible!"and then shatter it to make Superman win. It's poor writing to repeatedly disable the established narrative about reality just so one guy can do the impossible for the thousandth time. It's like they're not even trying any more. The comics might as well just have page that reads "Superman wins."
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fixed that for you

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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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So you agree that the writing for Batman and Superman is pretty much equally stupid. Glad we cleared that up.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Xasten_sl said:
The problem, as it's already been pointed out, isn't that he's simply "unrealistic"; it's that he's completely out of step with the rules of reality as established in the comic universe. Batman will be put into impossible situations, but he'll still win. This is because the writes will establish a sense of internal consistency for the universe that makes you think "wow, that really is impossible!"and then shatter it to make Batman win. It's poor writing to repeatedly disable the established narrative about reality just so one guy can do the impossible for the thousandth time. It's like they're not even trying any more. The comics might as well just have page that reads "Batman wins."

I'm pretty sure that this movie will have the same problem. I want this move to be awesome, but I don't have much faith. Ever since Man of Steel had Supes smashing cities, I've been questioning how they're going to make Bats relevant. They should've had a tank shoot superman and crack his ribs. The bullets should have stung him. They should have touched on his personal forcefield and mentioned just how exhausting it is for him to keep it up when taking large hits, and his max speed shouldn't be stupidly high. If he wants to break the sound barrier make him accelerate for a few minutes. This would have at least leveled the playing field for other heroes somewhat. I understand that part of his comic character is that he's literally a god, but that honestly makes for a pretty boring story.

A more vulnerable Superman would make for a much better story and it would keep us from having to go through "lol Batman I win" for the millionth time.
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Pretty much. Not sure how they are going to match up the batman people currently know(last 3 movies) and the current superman.

Why I always felt batman wasn't really a super hero, hero yes, super no. He has no super powers, he's just a guy with very expensive earth made toys(like tony stark). Great characters if they are kept within their limits.

Also a reason I don't like when superman or others like him are fighting common day criminals and psychopaths, its so boring and usually leads to something stupid to make things equal(hi2u kryptonite).
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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Twilight Sparkle_sl said:
So you agree that the writing for Batman and Superman is pretty much equally stupid. Glad we cleared that up.
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I'm not agreeing with you that the writing is as bad for Batman. Maybe some of you are new to comics, but I've read the last 60 years of Superman comics. He's lame. As the writers said it (Pre-Crisis), the only power they didn't give him were the ones they forgot to give him. For God's sake, you had inane storylines where Lois Lane needed a dress for the ball, and Superman develops his Super Basketweaving power just for that. He even had telepathy! Every issue, they gave him a new power. Ugh.

Ever since Crisis, they've been stealth buffing Superman, so he can move planets again. How boring. He was more interesting when John Byrne wrote him, and he was much weaker. He could only lift 100 tons, could only fly in space as long as he could hold his breath, and wasn't near as invulnerable.

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Xasten_sl

shitlord
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The important thing is that no matter how good the writing is for Batman, he's still paired with Superman. It's almost guaranteed they're going to resort to super preparedness, and it's going to be forced and cringe-worthy. Batman is fine on his own as everyone has already said. When you put him with the DC heavy hitters it gets bad. There's no way for him to compete the doesn't completely unravel the plot threads and internal consistency of the story.

We deserve better writing for both characters.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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Xasten_sl said:
The important thing is that no matter how good the writing is for Batman, he's still paired with Superman. It's almost guaranteed they're going to resort to super preparedness, and it's going to be forced and cringe-worthy. Batman is fine on his own as everyone has already said. When you put him with the DC heavy hitters it gets bad. There's no way for him to compete the doesn't completely unravel the plot threads and internal consistency of the story.

We deserve better writing for both characters.
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The thing is, I don't find it heavy handed how Batman negates people's powers. It's not like they just shoehorn it in. They've shown him in JLA studying metahumans when he has downtime in the Batcave. He sometimes studies metahumans for years before engaging them. It's like a hobby to him. And at least we get pseudo scientific explanations on his strats. Please explain how Superman can fly through time? How is he able to fly at all?

I find Superman cringeworthy. None of us could ever be like him. Yet, he's just a super powered regular guy, and not a skilled warrior. All of us could be Batman, if our parents were slain, we were Billionares, and slightly crazy. As a kid, I never identified with Superman. Batman, anyone could be. Superman is the way he is, only because of the planet he was born on. There's nothing special about him, that would be any different than any other Kryptonian.

 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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One of my favorite Batman/Superman storylines was the one where they travel the world to destroy all of the Kryptonite. Governments starting storing Kryptonite en masse, so Batman/Superman pretty much go to war with them. It was a long storyline, spanning six months. After they destroyed all of it, Superman gives Batman a Kryptonite ring just in case he loses control. Batman says thanks for trusting me, it was a touching moment. Then goes in his cave, and he has more Kryptonite than all of the governments combined down there. He's crazy and paranoid, and it makes him one of my favorite characters.

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K

Karloff_sl

shitlord
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Lyrical_sl said:
You missed my point entirely, but that's because you are wearing Superman underoos right now.
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Lol nether is even close to being a favorite of mine, just shows how blinded you are by your hatred of Superman.

Both are great characters when well written problem is when introduced together it's rarely a good story.
 
Lanx

Lanx

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the best batman v superman story is irredeemable by mark waid, just replace all the pseudo characters with dc characters and there you go, a real superman v batman story, even tho it begins with superman frying batman, but again... his super preparedness does win in the end. every other superman v batman story sucks b/c superman is always a vomit inducing goodie goodie, while batman has to bring him down to "his level".
 
Valishar

Valishar

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All of us could be Batman, if our parents were slain, we were Billionares, and slightly crazy.
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Don't kid yourself, no human alive could be Batman as written.

You have to:
-be a Billionaire.
-Have relentless will.
-Be a genius.
-Have degrees in physics, chemistry, criminology, forensics, business administration, literature, history.
-Have the skills of an electrician, mechanic, electrical engineer, and paramedic.
-Also be able to drive and maintain most kinds of vehicles from planes to helicopters to hovercrafts and big rigs.
-Be a master martial artist.
-Be a master in most forms of martial weaponry including: shuriken, swords, rifles... and so on.
-Have the sleight of hand and misdirection ability of a top level magician/illusionist.
-Have the stealth of a ninja.
-Have eidetic (photographic) memory
-Also have a very good grasp of popular culture*.
edit: I'm sure I'm leaving out more shit as well.

* because Riddler.

On top of that you have to train as if you were going to be headlining a UFC fight constantly, because you're going out on patrol every night to basically get into a fight.

Oh and you have to do this all by the time you're 30 years old. Not only are some of these things impossible for the regular person with just drive and riches (photographic memory for example can't be learned), it is simply a time issue.
 
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