Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Edaw · Nov 21, 2021

It will never happen. The US will destroy any way for it to happen, long before it does. It's a honeypot.

Reason: Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication - Wikipedia

Arden · Nov 21, 2021

Mist said:
US debt would become unservicable. The government would become insolvent. It would default on its debt. Every other country that owns a large amount of US bonds would take a massive hit, along with every person and corporation within the US. Inflation would skyrocket at rates seen only in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela, as US dollars become increasingly worthless. Everything that the government finances or maintains, including the military, would have to be massively scaled back or sold off piece by piece. What soldiers remain would be paid in increasingly worthless dollars until they eventually just go work for the highest bidder.

It would become a failed state practically overnight. It would become the world that our dystopic nightmares have warned us about. This is the endgame of our adversaries, and people hypnotized by grifters telling them they're 'fighting the man' are playing right into it.

You have no fucking idea how good you have it in this country that can write its own blank checks for everything. Sure, it does lead to some things being kinda fucked, like a handful of rich people never having to pay for their mistakes, but you as an ordinary citizen get enormous benefits.

Well Mist, you paint a pretty grim picture. Sounds like all Americans should be rooting against Bitcoin...

Mist · Nov 21, 2021

Arden said:
Well Mist, you paint a pretty grim picture. Sounds like all Americans should be rooting against Bitcoin...

Only against it becoming the world's reserve currency.

There's plenty of other great uses for bitcoin. I do think some kind of blockchain based technology will replace SWIFT.

Flobee · Nov 21, 2021

IMO

Mist is fairly accurately describing how things could go if Bitcoin moves too quickly. I just think that our current system is in its death throes already and its logical conclusion on our current path is a kind of plutocratic panopticon society where you can't actually own or control anything because your money is fully controlled and surveilled (CBDCs or a crypto system that can be controlled). Bitcoin isn't the solution to the dark times, it is just an example of the type systems we need for us to move through the dark times as quickly as possible. The fall is inevitable its just a matter of time. How are we going to rebuild is the real question. I don't think anyone reading this wants to live in the world that Klaus Schwab builds.

Spoilered a podcast with some Bitcoiners, one of which runs Start9 who are building a self sovereign (in home) server OS usable by anyone. This aims to solve some of the problems that we're currently experiencing and are likely to get much worse. He explains this concept of creating parallel systems that will help us build out of the dark times as quickly as possible better than anyone else I've heard. Podcast is technical, but worth the watch.

OU Ariakas · Nov 21, 2021

Jesus fucking Christ, it's like none if you really understand the reason the US is the reserve currency.

Imagine a world where Bitcoin becomes the reserve currency. What do you think the US does in this new world where they are now fiscally at risk? They start by announcing that any country that moves away from the Dollar as reserve will lose US ally status including any treaties, naval support, and military guarantees.

That nation now has to build and maintain an army to defend against its historical rivals and a navy large to ensure its imports/exports get where they are supposed to go now that pirates know they are unprotected. That isnt even bringing up the possibility of the US becoming the 'bad guy' and using our 10 super carriers to bring global trade to a grinding halt.

So if you think that some fucking country that hasn't had to worry about foreign or domestic enemies for 70+ years is going to suddenly hold a sword of damocles over the US because of crypto then you really dont understand 'free trade' as it exists today.

Mist · Nov 21, 2021

Flobee said:
Spoilered a podcast with some Bitcoiners, one of which runs Start9 who are building a self sovereign (in home) server OS usable by anyone. This aims to solve some of the problems that we're currently experiencing and are likely to get much worse. He explains this concept of creating parallel systems that will help us build out of the dark times as quickly as possible better than anyone else I've heard. Podcast is technical, but worth the watch.

That's just a Raspberry Pi rebranded for people who buy apocalypse seeds.

Falstaff · Nov 21, 2021

Flobee said:
Sovereign nations issuing Bitcoin backed bonds is the death of the IMF lending monopoly. Bonds issued against future mining revenue (from Volcano energy, 100% sustainable) to recapitalize the countries balance sheet. Going to change the world

El Salvador government strikes deal with Bitfinex, Blockstream to issue $1 billion bitcoin bond

El Salvador has struck a deal with crypto firms Blockstream and iFinex to advance its efforts in the bitcoin market. The country is set to issue

www.theblockcrypto.com

EDIT: This effectively allows a country with no valuable exports (Oil, gas, debt, labor, whatever) but does have stranded energy sources, to export that energy in the form of Bitcoin mining. Not only will this challenge the IMF's control over international lending markets through their SDR's but it bring more of the world's population into the first world.

Oh no not El Salvador!

Jackie Treehorn · Nov 22, 2021

Big TrueBit movement today for some reason.

Arden · Nov 22, 2021

OU Ariakas said:
Jesus fucking Christ, it's like none if you really understand the reason the US is the reserve currency.

Imagine a world where Bitcoin becomes the reserve currency. What do you think the US does in this new world where they are now fiscally at risk? They start by announcing that any country that moves away from the Dollar as reserve will lose US ally status including any treaties, naval support, and military guarantees.

That nation now has to build and maintain an army to defend against its historical rivals and a navy large to ensure its imports/exports get where they are supposed to go now that pirates know they are unprotected. That isnt even bringing up the possibility of the US becoming the 'bad guy' and using our 10 super carriers to bring global trade to a grinding halt.

So if you think that some fucking country that hasn't had to worry about foreign or domestic enemies for 70+ years is going to suddenly hold a sword of damocles over the US because of crypto then you really dont understand 'free trade' as it exists today.

The world has changed a lot since Bretton Woods. If Mist's doom and gloom scenario is an oversimplification of how easily the US would collapse if BTC became a global reserve currency, your post is an overly optimistic view of why a collapse wouldn't happen. US ally status is still important, but it isn't what it once was. Many of our allies have been showing more and more willingness to go it alone (or just without the US) in the last few years. Also, China is more than willing to step up and replace the US (or the West) as a benefactor to other nations. Not that a China alliance can offer the same benefits as a US alliance- yet. Every day they get closer though.

Hard power like aircraft carriers is certainly important, but you can't run a country on military power alone. Tanks and planes can't feed citizens, build roads, fund schools, or pay salaries. Just ask the Soviet Union. Military equipment doesn't do much good if you don't have the fuel to run it or you can't pay the soldiers to operate it. I don't think we are going to find ourselves in Mist's dark scenario anytime soon, but it's not out of the question as something that could happen if we don't take the right steps to prevent it. And if you think 10 super carriers is going to be enough to prevent it, I've got bad news for you.

reavor · Nov 22, 2021

Jackie Treehorn said:
Big TrueBit movement today for some reason.

truebit is still less than 50% of ATH. from what I hear a lot of the zk proofs now in place, optimism, arbitrum are already moving beyond truebit. it's sad to think about, truebit got too enamored with being all nerdy and low-key cool and are now being left behind in tech. should have tried some marketing instead.

Arden · Nov 22, 2021

reavor said:
truebit is still less than 50% of ATH. from what I hear a lot of the zk proofs now in place, optimism, arbitrum are already moving beyond truebit. it's sad to think about, truebit got too enamored with being all nerdy and low-key cool and are now being left behind in tech. should have tried some marketing instead.

Speaking of zk- you know anything about Polygon's Miden and how it stacks up to other zk projects? This is normally the type of question James would answer but he's gone and disappeared on us.

Los_Necros · Nov 22, 2021

Thanks to everyone who sold Truebit recently

Truebit price today, TRU to USD live price, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap

The live Truebit price today is $0.2722 USD with a 24-hour trading volume of $275,605.48 USD. We update our TRU to USD price in real-time.

coinmarketcap.com

Up 45% as I post this. 33 cents to 49 cents. Mostly in the last few hours. I kinda said I would sell some when it got back above 45 cent as to expect another dip and pick up more... but didn't really expect it to gain 50% in a day. So, will just keep holding onto mine.

If gas fees werent a thing, I would probably sell 30-40% of it now expecting it to drop below 40 again.

Will see if avoiding selling due to gas fees ends up being good or bad!

Flobee · Nov 22, 2021

Mist said:
That's just a Raspberry Pi rebranded for people who buy apocalypse seeds.

They're selling the OS, not the hardware. Pi is just the platform they've started on.

RE: El Salvador. I think many are missing the point here, they're just the beginning. If they see any sort of success with this approach there will be an avalanche of small/medium sized nations that will follow suit with varying levels of success. Its an experiment with potentially massive ramifications.

OU Ariakas · Nov 22, 2021

Arden said:
The world has changed a lot since Bretton Woods. If Mist's doom and gloom scenario is an oversimplification of how easily the US would collapse if BTC became a global reserve currency, your post is an overly optimistic view of why a collapse wouldn't happen. US ally status is still important, but it isn't what it once was. Many of our allies have been showing more and more willingness to go it alone (or just without the US) in the last few years. Also, China is more than willing to step up and replace the US (or the West) as a benefactor to other nations. Not that a China alliance can offer the same benefits as a US alliance- yet. Every day they get closer though.

You are right that the world has changed a lot since Bretton Woods; but how can you say that our allies are "going it alone" when they are most certainly NOT doing that? They may be going it alone by not relying on us for trade, but they all certainly still rely on us for FREE TRADE. Please name any of our allies that are going it alone and how they are doing it without the United States being the literal world police. OK, so you say that China is willing to replace us as a benefactor but then don't talk about what that really looks like. China has ZERO force projection to the world since they cannot even project force outside the First Island Chain. Add that to the absolute fact that Bitcoin is a greater threat to Chinese stability than it is to US stability and you have a scenario that sounds good in a vacuum but does not really play out in the real world .

Arden said:
Hard power like aircraft carriers is certainly important, but you can't run a country on military power alone. Tanks and planes can't feed citizens, build roads, fund schools, or pay salaries. Just ask the Soviet Union. Military equipment doesn't do much good if you don't have the fuel to run it or you can't pay the soldiers to operate it. I don't think we are going to find ourselves in Mist's dark scenario anytime soon, but it's not out of the question as something that could happen if we don't take the right steps to prevent it. And if you think 10 super carriers is going to be enough to prevent it, I've got bad news for you.

You seem to be confused about the state of hard power in the world right now and the state of the US economy compared to the rest of the world. The United States is the country most insulated from outside destabilization since we only rely on imports and exports for about 1/5 of our economic needs. That is far less on either side of that equation than roughly 90% of the rest of the world. If we had to cut off all trade we could still feed our own population and power our own nation (and that of Canada and Mexico which would be assimilated in this doomsday scenario). What other country can say that? Also, the rest of the fucking world cannot match our naval power. If we park it in the major international trade routes and simply denied access what country would have the capital and resources to stand against us? Which group of countries? I'm asking for actual answers and not some hand waving "the EU would NEVER let that stand!!!"

Tmac · Nov 22, 2021

OU Ariakas said:
You are right that the world has changed a lot since Bretton Woods; but how can you say that our allies are "going it alone" when they are most certainly NOT doing that? They may be going it alone by not relying on us for trade, but they all certainly still rely on us for FREE TRADE. Please name any of our allies that are going it alone and how they are doing it without the United States being the literal world police. OK, so you say that China is willing to replace us as a benefactor but then don't talk about what that really looks like. China has ZERO force projection to the world since they cannot even project force outside the First Island Chain. Add that to the absolute fact that Bitcoin is a greater threat to Chinese stability than it is to US stability and you have a scenario that sounds good in a vacuum but does not really play out in the real world .

You seem to be confused about the state of hard power in the world right now and the state of the US economy compared to the rest of the world. The United States is the country most insulated from outside destabilization since we only rely on imports and exports for about 1/5 of our economic needs. That is far less on either side of that equation than roughly 90% of the rest of the world. If we had to cut off all trade we could still feed our own population and power our own nation (and that of Canada and Mexico which would be assimilated in this doomsday scenario). What other country can say that? Also, the rest of the fucking world cannot match our naval power. If we park it in the major international trade routes and simply denied access what country would have the capital and resources to stand against us? Which group of countries? I'm asking for actual answers and not some hand waving "the EU would NEVER let that stand!!!"

You’re describing the actions of a serious country though…which we are not.

Mist · Nov 22, 2021

Flobee said:
They're selling the OS, not the hardware. Pi is just the platform they've started on.

So they're selling you Raspbian Linux and a bunch of free apps.

Grifters be griftin.

Flobee · Nov 22, 2021

Mist said:
So they're selling you Raspbian Linux and a bunch of free apps.

Grifters be griftin.

Its a Ubuntu fork. I've not used it yet so I can't speak with confidence but if it works as described it sounds intriguing. Its supposed to automate a lot of the type of work I do. Maybe its dogshit, I dunno for sure, but you most certainly don't either. Why bother saying dumb stuff without bothering to look into it? Could just say... nothing? Product aside, the podcast was a good listen imo

Mist · Nov 22, 2021

Flobee said:
Its a Ubuntu fork

Flobee said:
Why bother saying dumb stuff without bothering to look into it?

You should ask yourself that.

Flobee · Nov 22, 2021

Mist said:
You should ask yourself that.

Fair, I was going from memory. He may have been referring to the x86 version of OS they're working on being Ubuntu fork.

Intrinsic · Nov 23, 2021

Well it is nice watching my 40,000 TRUs go to the moon, but realistically I'll just sit here and watch it crash back down.

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