Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Tripamang

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
5,203
31,756
i would wager that the illegitimate uses still outweigh the legitimate uses by a couple orders of magnitude.

for someone using BTC as currency instead of an investment vehicle, it's main advantage over USD is still that it can be discretely exchanged for illegal things.

It's a great mechanism for getting money out of countries with currency controls. For example China has their currency pegged against the US dollar, and for that to work they have to maintain a level of reserves so that anyone who asks for an amount of Yuan in US dollars they can provide it to maintain the price. So to prevent a mass exodus of funds out of the country they limit how much can be converted by citizens to foreign currencies. Bitcoin is a great mechanism to get around this, and from my perspective it gets around the China's problem with exchanging currency because you're selling the crypto coins in the foreign country to get the money you want. The Chinese government doesn't have to touch their reserves for you to exchange your yuan for other currencies. They've banned exchanges but I'm sure that the activity still happens regardless.

I'd be curious if long term that cryptocurrencies have to force the price of the yuan to increase because it really does "float" against those currencies instead of being pegged. Alternatively if nobody will trade your currency for crypto coins what does that mean? This stuff is fascinating because it bypasses traditional methods for controlling the value of things and allows you to globally peg somethings worth regardless of political/economic systems.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
37,961
14,508
Coinbase investigating if their staff ignored orders to keep Bitcoin Cash launch secret.

Gee who didn't fuckin see that coming. Insider trading basically
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
2,996
4,613
Fees are getting out of hand, right now according to Bitcoin Fees for Transactions | bitcoinfees.earn.com its .0077 per KB to send a transaction, a couple of days ago it was .0030. High transaction fees are what is going to really hurt bitcoin in the long run. So to send a 262 byte transaction it would be $29.86. On 12/1 I sent a 192 byte transaction to $0.59
 

sadris

Karen
<Donor>
21,131
80,758
Fees are getting out of hand, right now according to Bitcoin Fees for Transactions | bitcoinfees.earn.com its .0077 per KB to send a transaction, a couple of days ago it was .0030. High transaction fees are what is going to really hurt bitcoin in the long run. So to send a 262 byte transaction it would be $29.86. On 12/1 I sent a 192 byte transaction to $0.59
Yeah its a shit technology. Even BCH is too. Been over 20m since I initiated a transfer from gate.io to CoinBase for my BCH I got last night.

Visa is instantaneous. Its also only 30cents
 

Siliconemelons

Avatar of War Slayer
10,846
15,258
imo and I could be dead set wrong, but Bitcoin is not going anywhere, even if it goes back to sub 10k... Bitcoin "is" crypto currency and much if not all others rely upon its "validity" in the public eye.

No random person is going to say "oh, bitcoin worth 10$ now? Because reasons?! Well my etherium is still good because of the X Y and Z advantages of eth over btc, duhh" no- generally one tanks, they all do.
 

Pops

Avatar of War Slayer
8,136
21,317
’Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the house
Every person was trading, including my spouse;
The mining rigs hummed in the cellar with care,
In hopes that some new bitcoins soon would be there;

The children were buying tokens from their beds,
While visions of Porsche Turbos danced in their heads;
And Mama on her laptop, and I on PC
Searched for the next big buying opportunity

But then from my desk there arose such a clatter,
I answered the phone to see what was the matter.
I squinted to see by the light of the taper,
As a teenager walked me through his white paper.

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear
But a bearded millennial drinking craft beer
He pulled out his phone, checked his what-do-you-call-it
Where one keeps one’s tokens- his digital wallet.

More rapid than lightning, the rallies they came
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name:
"Now Bitcoin! Now Litecoin! Now Ether and Ripple!
If Monero can double, then you can all triple!

To the top of the chart! Break the resistance wall!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
And then with a wink, to my office he flew
While lugging a case and swigging his brew

As he prepped his ICO pitch to help me gain,
I confirmed a few transactions on the blockchain.
His slide deck was thick; his paper, full of detail
About how he’d attract bids from Asian retail.

His eyes--how they twinkled! So this was no hobby
He clearly knew how to pitch the Watanabes
When I asked if he’d come from the North he said "No.
The coin-mining rigs have all melted the snow.

I leave for the coast on my sleigh in an hour.
My wind-farm provides me with super-cheap power."
What about the Fed? Do you see any trouble?
He laughed, "You know central banks can’t spot a bubble.

The worst they can do is say ’buyer beware.’
It’s like the Wild West... pretty much laissez-faire."
Is there intrinsic value? I mean, what can I buy?
He looked at me sadly and let out a sigh.

Then shaking his head, tapped the side of his nose.
"You mean that you can’t see the Emperor’s new clothes?
You’re not a believer, I can feel in my loins.
C’mon! A chap once bought some pizza with coins.

You know that the ledger, it needs proof of work.
You’re not only a doubter, you’re some kind of jerk.
Your insistence on value is pretty quaint, Gramps.
Stick to trading stocks or maybe collect stamps.

My coin’s not for you, I’ve seen more than enough."
Then he packed up his things and he left in a huff.
But I heard him exclaim as he left, sight unseen:
Happy holidays all, and good luck in ’18!
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
i would wager that the illegitimate uses still outweigh the legitimate uses by a couple orders of magnitude.

for someone using BTC as currency instead of an investment vehicle, it's main advantage over USD is still that it can be discretely exchanged for illegal things.

It's not 2013 anymore. BTC isn't very private at all, at least if the feds want you. Entire companies have formed JUST to scan blockchains and track payments and police agencies all over the world are using these services to catch criminals. This is why Monero was adopted by darknet markets so quickly. I've seen these CEOs speak to congressional committees.

Reasons to use crypto:

  • Remittances
  • Unreversable transactions protects sellers. Credit cards protect buyers and screw sellers.
  • More convenient to use than credit cards when all you have to do is snap a pic of a QR code and hit confirm. Sending money to friends much easier/safer than using Paypal.
  • For non-US persons, currency devaluation is a big deal. Crypto guards against this (China, Britain, Venezuela, etc)
  • Be your own bank. Banks stealing your money is also an issue in many countries. FDIC only insures up to 250k, and probably won't protect you if something really bad happens. In the US, the banks steal our money via taxes, but that could change.
  • Using BTC for drugs is a bad idea, but it still offers significantly more privacy than credit cards, which log every transaction. So if you're buying porn or VPN service, it's great. (again, XMR works if you want more privacy)
  • Asset seizure is a problem in the US. Cops can steal your money if they find it in your car. The feds can freeze your bank accounts BEFORE you're convicted. Innocent people go on trial all the time.
  • If you travel a lot, your accounts can be frozen by security systems designed to protect from credit card theft, which at a minimum is a huge PITA to tell them everywhere you're going. Payments from out-of-country can also take a long time. (weeks)
  • Most importantly, bitcoin is about freedom. Banks and credit card companies can't decide who you can send money to. So if you want to send money to organizations that expose corruption (Wikileaks), you can. Also, again, US persons historically haven't needed to worry about this, but in other countries there have been times when families had to flee at a moment's notice, and withdrawing your funds from a bank before fleeing for your life isn't feasible. (e.g. Syria)

Yes, bitcoin fees are a big problem. But there are some reasons why they are so high right now. One, the miner cartel is spamming the mempool. Because they control most of the hash power, they can do this because they receive most of the mining fees from their own spam. They won't control so much of the hash power for long though, as new competitive miner hardware is going to launch next year. Secondly, exchanges are not using SegWit for transactions yet. (apparently they are lazy) SegWit transactions are much smaller/cheaper. Transaction throughput would triple from current levels if all transactions were SegWit. Coinbase is 'working on it'. Get a SegWit wallet if you haven't yet.

Lightning will also be a big fucking deal. Instant transactions, near zero fees, micropayments, full anonymity, monetary compensation for running a full node.
 
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dubb01

Molten Core Raider
4
1
So, I'm looking into putting a small bit of money into cryptos and see how they/I fare. Does anyone have any suggestions for exchanges? Coinbase seems to be the obvious answer, but just wanted to get some veteran opinions. Currently most intrigued with ether and litecoin, but curious to know if anyone strongly suggests looking into other cryptos?
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
For US persons, Coinbase is probably the best option. There's always localbitcoins.com if you hate KYC.

My personal recommendation is to hold a majority in BTC with less than 50% alts. BTC is the safest bet, but probably won't get you the best returns compared to the better performing alts. Picking the winning alts is a gamble however.

Always research what you buy. This space is RIFE with scams. The #1 criterion when buying assets should be the competence of the developers.

The coins I like most, in order: Bitcoin, Sia, Monero, LBRY, Decred, Litecoin
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
19,836
13,354
These blockchain companies are literally the next tech bubble. Blockchain is not complex or difficult from a tech standpoint but it's one hell of a buzzword now and everyone wants in. There are going to be so many overvalued companies in that space and then it's all going to come tumbling down and analysts and "experts" will say idiotic shit like "blockchain was never viable, it was fake tech!" just like the idiots said "it turns out nobody really wants to buy stuff off the internet!" when the tech bubble burst. And then it will correct and slowly gain traction again until people properly realize what the tech is and means for financial institutions especially. The next Google/Amazon is going to be one of these types of companies, maybe not necessarily blockchain, but some form of transacting/payment system tech like blockchain.
 

TomServo

<Bronze Donator>
6,375
8,366
so looking to get started, i see most suggesting coinbase but my friends is suggesting gemini.com and bittrex.com
 

vGrade

Potato del Grande
1,677
2,566
so looking to get started, i see most suggesting coinbase but my friends is suggesting gemini.com and bittrex.com
Gemini is good if you dont mind waiting for the authorization
Edit: If you're interested in litecoin it's not available on Gemeni though
 
Last edited:

vGrade

Potato del Grande
1,677
2,566
It's not 2013 anymore. BTC isn't very private at all, at least if the feds want you. Entire companies have formed JUST to scan blockchains and track payments and police agencies all over the world are using these services to catch criminals. This is why Monero was adopted by darknet markets so quickly. I've seen these CEOs speak to congressional committees.

Reasons to use crypto:

  • Remittances
  • Unreversable transactions protects sellers. Credit cards protect buyers and screw sellers.
  • More convenient to use than credit cards when all you have to do is snap a pic of a QR code and hit confirm. Sending money to friends much easier/safer than using Paypal.
  • For non-US persons, currency devaluation is a big deal. Crypto guards against this (China, Britain, Venezuela, etc)
  • Be your own bank. Banks stealing your money is also an issue in many countries. FDIC only insures up to 250k, and probably won't protect you if something really bad happens. In the US, the banks steal our money via taxes, but that could change.
  • Using BTC for drugs is a bad idea, but it still offers significantly more privacy than credit cards, which log every transaction. So if you're buying porn or VPN service, it's great. (again, XMR works if you want more privacy)
  • Asset seizure is a problem in the US. Cops can steal your money if they find it in your car. The feds can freeze your bank accounts BEFORE you're convicted. Innocent people go on trial all the time.
  • If you travel a lot, your accounts can be frozen by security systems designed to protect from credit card theft, which at a minimum is a huge PITA to tell them everywhere you're going. Payments from out-of-country can also take a long time. (weeks)
  • Most importantly, bitcoin is about freedom. Banks and credit card companies can't decide who you can send money to. So if you want to send money to organizations that expose corruption (Wikileaks), you can. Also, again, US persons historically haven't needed to worry about this, but in other countries there have been times when families had to flee at a moment's notice, and withdrawing your funds from a bank before fleeing for your life isn't feasible. (e.g. Syria)

Yes, bitcoin fees are a big problem. But there are some reasons why they are so high right now. One, the miner cartel is spamming the mempool. Because they control most of the hash power, they can do this because they receive most of the mining fees from their own spam. They won't control so much of the hash power for long though, as new competitive miner hardware is going to launch next year. Secondly, exchanges are not using SegWit for transactions yet. (apparently they are lazy) SegWit transactions are much smaller/cheaper. Transaction throughput would triple from current levels if all transactions were SegWit. Coinbase is 'working on it'. Get a SegWit wallet if you haven't yet.

Lightning will also be a big fucking deal. Instant transactions, near zero fees, micropayments, full anonymity, monetary compensation for running a full node.
What wallet are you using?
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
so looking to get started, i see most suggesting coinbase but my friends is suggesting gemini.com and bittrex.com

Bittrex, without any warning, turned off withdrawals on accounts that did not submit KYC then demanded photocopies of drivers licenses and photos of clients to allow them to get their money out. This is extremely shady if not outright theft because many people are unwilling to do this. They effectively stole some of my money by doing this. Some Russian hacker was able to get access to their KYC photos as well, as they apparently have poor security.

Poloniex was always a good experience for me, but they stopped serving my state and they started demanding KYC for new accounts, so old accounts are probably next. I was using them with a VPN for awhile but it's too risky so I exited.

Seeing a lot of traders moving to Binance, probably because of KYC. American exchanges are probably best avoided if possible. Never leave your money on exchanges for long.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user