Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,649
1,941

About halfway through this blog post... It's really good. Answers some of the questions I had with why a crypto-based internet would provide some serious advantages for businesses (see massive overhead reduction) and therefore why crypto has so much value to holders/stakers. Also makes me want to buy more MATIC, even though I already have a decent bag of it.

TBH Ive invested quite a bit in crypto knowing that it had value and would very likely grow significantly in value, but only having a vague reason as to why. This blog is one of the first things I've read that does a decent job at starting to explain the "why."
 

Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
41,542
107,633
Article on publicly traded companies carrying bitcoin on their balance sheets and the headaches it can cause from an accounting perspective...

Bitcoin on the Balance Sheet Is an Accounting Headache for Tesla, Others -- 2nd Update

Elon Musk reignited his curious Twitter relationship with bitcoin on Sunday, giving the cryptocurrency a small boost.

More pertinent to Tesla Inc.(TSLA) shareholders, however, is the hit to the company's bottom line this quarter from Mr. Musk's sometimes hot, sometimes cool attitude toward bitcoin.

Mr. Musk is widely blamed by investors for starting the digital currency's most punishing slide of the year after announcing on Twitter that Tesla would stop accepting bitcoin as payment for its electric vehicles. He added fuel to the fire earlier this month, tweeting breakup memes with "#bitcoin" and a broken-heart emoji. Bitcoin has slumped 30% since the original May 12 tweet.

On Sunday, Mr. Musk said Tesla would resume bitcoin transactions when miners increase use of renewable energy sources. The price jumped over 6% from its Friday 5 p.m. ET level to trade at about $39,300 early Monday. He also said that Tesla had sold only about 10% of its bitcoin holdings earlier this year to confirm that the cryptocurrency "could be liquidated easily without moving market."

Tesla had about $1.3 billion in bitcoin parked in its treasury at the end of the first quarter and announced the bitcoin purchase in February to "diversify and maximize returns on our cash."

Software developer MicroStrategy Inc.(MSTR) and a handful of other companies, including payment app provider Square Inc., have made similar investments. Some have touted bitcoin as a store of value, or a more modern version of gold.

But companies holding bitcoin in their treasuries face an accounting risk: Because bitcoin and other digital assets are considered "indefinite-lived intangible assets," rather than currencies, any decrease in their value below what the company paid for them -- even a temporary one -- can force a company to write down the value and take an impairment charge.

Such assets must be tested for impairment at least annually, or if the price falls below the company's carrying value. The volatile nature of bitcoin makes quarterly revaluations routine. Once the company takes the charge, that resets the fair value of the asset. Conversely, if the price has gone up, the company can't record a gain; it can do that only when it sells the asset.

Tesla, which didn't respond to a request for comment, is projected to post a profit of 96 cents a share in the second quarter, according to analysts polled by FactSet.

Bitcoin's volatility, combined with this accounting treatment, makes it hard for corporate officers to manage crypto holdings as cash, which makes it less useful as a reserve asset, said Jennifer Stevens, an accounting professor at Ohio University.

"The accounting is a little bit incongruous with the underlying purpose, " she said.

Few other companies have been eager to jump into bitcoin. A February survey from research firm Gartner found only 5% of chief financial officers questioned planned to hold bitcoin as a corporate asset this year. Of the finance chiefs surveyed, 84% said they never planned to hold it.

Tesla initially disclosed a $1.5 billion investment in bitcoin on Feb. 8 but didn't specify how many bitcoins it held or the average price it paid. The change to its investment policy, however, was made in January, and the price of bitcoin averaged about $35,400between Jan. 1 and Feb. 8, according to data from CoinDesk. That means Tesla likely held around 37,000 bitcoins after slightly trimming its position in the first quarter.

As of Friday afternoon, bitcoin hovered just above $37,000, and it dropped as low as $30,202 last month.

It is likely Tesla will take an impairment charge on its bitcoin holdings this quarter, said Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives. He added that the company was likely buying across January and at least some of those holdings are now being held at a loss.

"If bitcoin is below $30,000, or in the low $30,000s [at the end of the second quarter], the impairment would have to be large," he said. It could end up being similar in size to the $101 million gain Tesla posted in the first quarter on the sale of some of its holdings, he said.

"It went from a tailwind to a real headwind," he said.

Tesla's results in recent periods have been propped up by one-time gains. In addition to the gain on the bitcoin sale in the first quarter, the company recorded a $518 million gain on the sale of regulatory credits to other auto makers to help them meet emissions mandates. That pushed the company into the black for the period -- Tesla posted net income of $438 million, or 93 cents a share.

Tesla wouldn't be the first company to take a big charge on its bitcoin holdings.

MicroStrategy (MSTR), which sells business software and holds about 92,000 bitcoins worth more than $3 billion, already has posted quarterly losses because of this accounting treatment, both in last year's third quarter and this year's first.

Last week, it said it expects to take a charge of at least $285 million on its bitcoin investment in the current period, which will push it to another quarterly loss.

For now, MicroStrategy(MSTR) is just accepting the accounting practice, Chief Executive Michael Saylor said in an interview. He said he sees bitcoin as a better value than the U.S. dollar and has made buying and holding it as much of a company priority as software sales.

"This looks risky to a person who doesn't understand bitcoin," he said, "but it is by far the least risky way to grow the company."

The company's bitcoin strategy has made Mr. Saylor a hero in cryptocurrency circles but has also made MicroStrategy's(MSTR) stock as volatile as bitcoin. The shares were trading at $135 last August when the company announced its new bitcoin strategy. They skyrocketed to a record $1,273 by September but have been falling since then, closing Friday at $516.44.

It is harder to determine how much Tesla's stock price has been affected by its bitcoin strategy since it is a far smaller part of the company's holdings, but the stock has been falling since the February announcement. It closed at $ 609.89 Friday, down 29% from Feb. 8.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,419
16,019
Article on publicly traded companies carrying bitcoin on their balance sheets and the headaches it can cause from an accounting perspective...

Bitcoin on the Balance Sheet Is an Accounting Headache for Tesla, Others -- 2nd Update

Elon Musk reignited his curious Twitter relationship with bitcoin on Sunday, giving the cryptocurrency a small boost.

More pertinent to Tesla Inc.(TSLA) shareholders, however, is the hit to the company's bottom line this quarter from Mr. Musk's sometimes hot, sometimes cool attitude toward bitcoin.

Mr. Musk is widely blamed by investors for starting the digital currency's most punishing slide of the year after announcing on Twitter that Tesla would stop accepting bitcoin as payment for its electric vehicles. He added fuel to the fire earlier this month, tweeting breakup memes with "#bitcoin" and a broken-heart emoji. Bitcoin has slumped 30% since the original May 12 tweet.

On Sunday, Mr. Musk said Tesla would resume bitcoin transactions when miners increase use of renewable energy sources. The price jumped over 6% from its Friday 5 p.m. ET level to trade at about $39,300 early Monday. He also said that Tesla had sold only about 10% of its bitcoin holdings earlier this year to confirm that the cryptocurrency "could be liquidated easily without moving market."

Tesla had about $1.3 billion in bitcoin parked in its treasury at the end of the first quarter and announced the bitcoin purchase in February to "diversify and maximize returns on our cash."

Software developer MicroStrategy Inc.(MSTR) and a handful of other companies, including payment app provider Square Inc., have made similar investments. Some have touted bitcoin as a store of value, or a more modern version of gold.

But companies holding bitcoin in their treasuries face an accounting risk: Because bitcoin and other digital assets are considered "indefinite-lived intangible assets," rather than currencies, any decrease in their value below what the company paid for them -- even a temporary one -- can force a company to write down the value and take an impairment charge.

Such assets must be tested for impairment at least annually, or if the price falls below the company's carrying value. The volatile nature of bitcoin makes quarterly revaluations routine. Once the company takes the charge, that resets the fair value of the asset. Conversely, if the price has gone up, the company can't record a gain; it can do that only when it sells the asset.

Tesla, which didn't respond to a request for comment, is projected to post a profit of 96 cents a share in the second quarter, according to analysts polled by FactSet.

Bitcoin's volatility, combined with this accounting treatment, makes it hard for corporate officers to manage crypto holdings as cash, which makes it less useful as a reserve asset, said Jennifer Stevens, an accounting professor at Ohio University.

"The accounting is a little bit incongruous with the underlying purpose, " she said.

Few other companies have been eager to jump into bitcoin. A February survey from research firm Gartner found only 5% of chief financial officers questioned planned to hold bitcoin as a corporate asset this year. Of the finance chiefs surveyed, 84% said they never planned to hold it.

Tesla initially disclosed a $1.5 billion investment in bitcoin on Feb. 8 but didn't specify how many bitcoins it held or the average price it paid. The change to its investment policy, however, was made in January, and the price of bitcoin averaged about $35,400between Jan. 1 and Feb. 8, according to data from CoinDesk. That means Tesla likely held around 37,000 bitcoins after slightly trimming its position in the first quarter.

As of Friday afternoon, bitcoin hovered just above $37,000, and it dropped as low as $30,202 last month.

It is likely Tesla will take an impairment charge on its bitcoin holdings this quarter, said Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives. He added that the company was likely buying across January and at least some of those holdings are now being held at a loss.

"If bitcoin is below $30,000, or in the low $30,000s [at the end of the second quarter], the impairment would have to be large," he said. It could end up being similar in size to the $101 million gain Tesla posted in the first quarter on the sale of some of its holdings, he said.

"It went from a tailwind to a real headwind," he said.

Tesla's results in recent periods have been propped up by one-time gains. In addition to the gain on the bitcoin sale in the first quarter, the company recorded a $518 million gain on the sale of regulatory credits to other auto makers to help them meet emissions mandates. That pushed the company into the black for the period -- Tesla posted net income of $438 million, or 93 cents a share.

Tesla wouldn't be the first company to take a big charge on its bitcoin holdings.

MicroStrategy (MSTR), which sells business software and holds about 92,000 bitcoins worth more than $3 billion, already has posted quarterly losses because of this accounting treatment, both in last year's third quarter and this year's first.

Last week, it said it expects to take a charge of at least $285 million on its bitcoin investment in the current period, which will push it to another quarterly loss.

For now, MicroStrategy(MSTR) is just accepting the accounting practice, Chief Executive Michael Saylor said in an interview. He said he sees bitcoin as a better value than the U.S. dollar and has made buying and holding it as much of a company priority as software sales.

"This looks risky to a person who doesn't understand bitcoin," he said, "but it is by far the least risky way to grow the company."

The company's bitcoin strategy has made Mr. Saylor a hero in cryptocurrency circles but has also made MicroStrategy's(MSTR) stock as volatile as bitcoin. The shares were trading at $135 last August when the company announced its new bitcoin strategy. They skyrocketed to a record $1,273 by September but have been falling since then, closing Friday at $516.44.

It is harder to determine how much Tesla's stock price has been affected by its bitcoin strategy since it is a far smaller part of the company's holdings, but the stock has been falling since the February announcement. It closed at $ 609.89 Friday, down 29% from Feb. 8.

BTC jumped today pushing above the high in the current squeeze which should indicate upward momentum. But, IDK how this works in correspondence to Elon tweets versus typical market variables. Typically you see consistent gains or losses within the Bollinger Band squeeze that indicates and direction, but this is just one huge candle up. So, what do Sanrith Descartes Sanrith Descartes ? I still have a limit order set to $32k lol.

Capture.PNG
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,419
16,019

Band Squeeze​

The Bollinger bands squeeze strategy relies on correctly predicting sudden price breakouts. Volatility tends to tighten alongside waning volume right before a major price breakout, and traders use this signal to position for these rapid spikes in price, volume and volatility.

The Bollinger bands squeeze strategy relies on correctly identifying a tightening of the bands and a complementary drop in volume. It is important that volatility and volume are dropping at the same time for an extended period, then the price, volume and volatility should rise slowly for a few days before the full breakout occurs.

Hard to use a technical when BTC is not doing what it should, lol.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,646
8,836
Might be people buying in higher than normal numbers after waiting out the weekend G7 fud potential which didn't end up happening
 

Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
41,542
107,633
BTC jumped today pushing above the high in the current squeeze which should indicate upward momentum. But, IDK how this works in correspondence to Elon tweets versus typical market variables. Typically you see consistent gains or losses within the Bollinger Band squeeze that indicates and direction, but this is just one huge candle up. So, what do Sanrith Descartes Sanrith Descartes ? I still have a limit order set to $32k lol.

View attachment 358247
I am not doing anything. My order is set and open. This is the top of the range, it either establishes a breakout to the top or it will fail and move back down toward the bottom. IF I see it re-establish itself above 40-42K for a period of time I will re-evaluate.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,419
16,019
I am not doing anything. My order is set and open. This is the top of the range, it either establishes a breakout to the top or it will fail and move back down toward the bottom. IF I see it re-establish itself above 40-42K for a period of time I will re-evaluate.

I see. So, you're basically waiting to see what's going to happen with the current range, $31k to $36 presumably, and if it establishes a new range you'll find that entry-point and go from there?

So, I guess if I follow your thinking, the high of one range is equal to the low of the next, so there's not point in investing at the high without knowing if it's establishing a new range or if it will potentially correct to the previous low. Then if it does establish a new range, you can go ahead and enter at that new low?
 

swayze22

Elite
<Bronze Donator>
1,211
1,091
I see. So, you're basically waiting to see what's going to happen with the current range, $31k to $36 presumably, and if it establishes a new range you'll find that entry-point and go from there?

So, I guess if I follow your thinking, the high of one range is equal to the low of the next, so there's not point in investing at the high without knowing if it's establishing a new range or if it will potentially correct to the previous low. Then if it does establish a new range, you can go ahead and enter at that new low?
Or you could have bought at $31-32k a week ago and your now sitting on a 25% return

it either goes up or down ya know? :p
 

Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
41,542
107,633
I see. So, you're basically waiting to see what's going to happen with the current range, $31k to $36 presumably, and if it establishes a new range you'll find that entry-point and go from there?

So, I guess if I follow your thinking, the high of one range is equal to the low of the next, so there's not point in investing at the high without knowing if it's establishing a new range or if it will potentially correct to the previous low. Then if it does establish a new range, you can go ahead and enter at that new low?
Not exactly. Every day impacts the moving averages. Since prior to this move it had been below all of the moving averages the only other factor to look at for me was previous plateaus. If it establishes above 40k then the averages come into play again since they will act as support and not resistance.

Edit: I stalk shit and won't chase it. I like the 31k price and doubt I will go after it higher.
 

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,804
7,056
Also makes me want to buy more MATIC, even though I already have a decent bag of it.

Should make you want to buy more ETH, tbh. This entire system was conceived and developed on Ethereum, AMM pools weren't even a thing conceptually before Bancor tried something different from EtherDelta.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,804
7,056
If ETH is doing like 5x the profits as BTC, why is BTC worth 10x of ETH?

I love how everything on that chart is either Ethereum, a copycat of Ethereum, or Bitcoin. You have to wonder how the Bitcoin network is going to function once block rewards are no longer issued, transaction fees have dropped by like 90% and that kind of volatility is fucking lethal imo.
 

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
2,611
3,005
I love how everything on that chart is either Ethereum, a copycat of Ethereum, or Bitcoin. You have to wonder how the Bitcoin network is going to function once block rewards are no longer issued, transaction fees have dropped by like 90% and that kind of volatility is fucking lethal imo.
Block rewards will be around until ~2140. There are a number of viable answers to this problem that can be implemented by then. If Bitcoin is still important at this point its not inconceivable that mining will be subsidized by nation states as a matter of national security for example. Transaction fees on the main chain will probably be -very- expensive by this point as well given how much value the network would have by then.

Worrying about this is similar to worrying about quantum computing. Its relevant, but not immediately important.
 

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
2,611
3,005
Just some boomer that likes Bitcoin. Notice he doesn't take the crypto prompt, he says Bitcoin specifically. He's moved from 1% Bitcoin last year to 5% now.

 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
Funny how Ethereum advocates went from 'BTC fees are too high, use ETH instead' to 'BTC fees are too low, it's doomed.'

ETH fees are high right now because of the on-chain computational cost of their current DeFi implementations. It won't always be this way and if ETH fails to reduce this, it will lose to competitors. Right now if you want to trade less than $1000 on Uniswap, fees are prohibitive.

One reason I favor Radix is because they treat third party tokens as first-class objects baked into the protocol itself which dramatically reduces the computational cost and implementation difficulty. On Ethereum tokens are very softcoded so token creators are providing all of the logic necessary to handle them which is highly redundant, inefficient and error prone. You can look up ERC20 token contracts and they have 'SafeMath' routines copied into them because the base Solidity routines don't even provide this. To be fair it's hard to design for this stuff before you know you need it.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user