Bootstrappers guide to being successful.

chaos

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Funny you mention west Texas in the early 80's. My dad went thru it in the petro chemical industry as well and it served as a constant motivator to diversify and learn more than just doing X which seems to be a problem with a lot of people I have had to hire. Expand a little.

It was bad back then. I knew process and chemical engineers when I was young that were very GLAD to get a job sacking groceries at Winn Dixie back when unemployment lasted a month or two at most and paid a fraction of what it does now.
Yeah my grandfather, his brother, and all of their sons except my father are all oilfield electricians. The 80s was a bad time for them. They are saying things are better now, much better, and they make good money and have steady work. But back then? I remember so many people being out of work or just working shit jobs and my dad told me "Never work in the oilfield." and the imagery really hammered it home.
 

Borzak

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Yeah my grandfather, his brother, and all of their sons except my father are all oilfield electricians. The 80s was a bad time for them. They are saying things are better now, much better, and they make good money and have steady work. But back then? I remember so many people being out of work or just working shit jobs and my dad told me "Never work in the oilfield." and the imagery really hammered it home.
My dad was a draftsman/designer as well in the refinery/chemical plant business and it was bad enough they were shutting down chemical plants and idling entire lines at what at the time was the nations largest refinery.

Anyway. Never felt like I really BS'd or sold myself a lot. I normally just talk business. But I could have a conversation with say the owner or president of the company about many of the things he ran into daily from dealing with sub contractors, customers, money issues inside the business, problems in the field etc....

When I was hired to be VP of engineering the president was impressed that I had actual first hand knowledge of a $2.5 million piece of equipment that was new to the industry. He really liked when I gave concrete examples of stuff it wouldn't actually do that they did a LOT of, they wound up passing on it. All this was talked about during my interview which lasted 6 hours, then another 4 hours in another town while he was on christmas vacation and another 4 hours with his son who was being promoted to VP - we really hit it off.

Having done contract work for years helped a lot since I had a lot of exposure with many different shops and owners would normally ask what I thought about X based on I might have seen how a competitor approached it.

My advice boiled down and I've heard many others in the same boat I was in and turned out OK - never say NO.
 

Soygen

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Gotta' have a good business card, too.

PatrickBatemanBC.jpg
 

Vitality

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Having done contract work for years helped a lot since I had a lot of exposure with many different shops and owners would normally ask what I thought about X based on I might have seen how a competitor approached it.
I definitely don't regret my years of contract work. The type of diversity it's provided me has no equivalent.
 

Borzak

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Oddly enough I've heard lots of people thru the years not expand into what I currently do because they wanted to wear a tie or whatever. I understand you went to college, but get over.

I wear jeans 99% of the time and have had meetings with some high level execs at Exxon including the CEO twice and he didn't seem to mind.

A lot of people I work with closely have this idea that because they had a degree they were above whoever. What's funny is I know exactly what they made because they worked for me and I knew what the head guy in the field made because it was union and they post it on a giant billboard what they make, and the shop guy made more and basically sat at a desk 90% of the time. I dunno.

Blend in.
 

Phazael

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Well, the basic truth is that eventually advancement in a field ultimately means being in charge of other people. That means leadership skills, which means social skills, which means the ability to bullshit on some level. It is rare that the best workers make the best managers, in fact it is often the exact opposite. That Mist hates the need for valuable interpersonal skills to advance ones career is not shocking, as she has done her best to be a prickly pear at every turn in life. The reality is that as you move up the ladder, you inevitably will be called on to direct people below you, which requires some ability to motivate those people and communicate quickly and comfortably with them. Good bullshitting skills are a valuable asset in this area.

As the saying goes, you get more bees with honey than vinegar. Being able to tell a good story and entertain people is one of the most basic tools for motivating other people to do what you want. And further, being able to fit in with social circles without drama is the mark of a good long term low maintenance employee. Mist, seriously, you need to get out and live in the real world.
 

chaos

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I think I have good management skills and leadership. I can delegate like a motherfucker and get some TASKS DONE! and shit. And I'm getting to the point where it is like "ok if you want to get ahead you have to walk into this conference full of strangers and sell yourself and your company" and that is intense. Very different from management.
 

Phazael

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That's good, but at some point even non managers are forced to deal with conflicting goals/opinions in a work environment. Sadly, being the more likeable guy who can communicate their point better will generally win out over the Asperger guy with flawless logic.
 

AladainAF

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Honestly, things are so fucked up these days from just about every facet, I'm actually starting to believe - for the first time in my life - that it's not quite so simple anymore.

My dad was a computer programmer, but was a programmer for Gulf Oil then Chevron in the 80s. The 80s were as has been said awful for Oil and Gas industry. However, he was mostly secure, as recent as that time companies didn't toss away their talent like they do today. I picked up a lot of my dads work ethic and much of that helped me get wildly successful despite never bothering to go to college (by choice - I could have gotten a huge education if I wanted to). I had always dabbled in computers as my dad had one at home since he was a programmer. I knew then that's what I wanted to do - it was my passion. My work ethic I learned, specifically two key elements got me where I am today. Those two elements: Show up on time, and treat your coworkers with respect and dignity in all circumstances.

But even though at 17 I knew how to code C and limited F77, proving this in the work place was more difficult. My first job out of high school was data entry, where I worked for Manpower for a year and always performing well (They hired a lot of data entry people who were really slow). Eventually I was so reliable at data entry and actually showed up every day on time (they told me this was a constant problem - I remember this vividly as I recall looking back at what my dad ingrained in my head) at this one place that was a bulk mail house, I ended up getting hired full time by them to do data entry (into a PICK database system - talk about garbage!). I saw that a lot of our data coming in from customers was really substandard and started to write my own code in Clipper and such (most data was in foxpro and dBase III mailing databases (ew) back then) and started speeding up and automating tasks such as formatting addresses uniformly (e.g. 123 main St. sometown,tx 77000 would automatically change to 123 Main St Sometown TX 77000), and other such things. It seemed like common sense to me, but early in your career/working life you always want to push hard, at least it seemed that way to me.

Because I also knew how to take computers apart (I can't tell you how many times I took apart my old sperry 8088 computer back in the day), I also became the "go to" person for PC repair which eventually lead me to my next job which was IT specialist/L3 helpdesk. Mind you, this was in the mid-late 90s when IT specialists and help desk support was a really nice and respected job and wasn't run by a bunch of indians who get $2 an hour to remotely fix issues following a generic script. After that, I moved into hardware QA, testing hardware at Dell, then software QA at Dell then Symantec, doing more and more programming along the way, picking up things like python, etc. By the time I decided to leave Symantec in order to run my own business which I still do today, I realized that technology moves so fast today that someone like me simply cannot keep up anymore. It takes a different brain/life experience in order to consistently keep up with the times, and to be accepting of "required" technologies today (For example, to me twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram, tumblr, and all that other shit is nothing more than a total waste of time/life, but apparently a lot of people find positive facets of it).

The requirements today - of constantly keeping on the trends of tech, keeping up with whats going on, even from a coding perspective (I remember when our company all used SVN for YEARS and then one day without warning everyone got a crash course on git and everything got switched over in 2 days). The expectations that you continue to apply your job skills to your personal life (again as a coder during the day in your real job, most also code at night their own projects), and the importance of politics of all things in order to "play a political game" being paramount to your success in a career has me wonder if I could/would want to do all this shit from 17 years old again.

I still believe that people can put themselves in a good situation in their lives as long as they make common sense choices from an early age which in most cases requires a strong family unit. If I was not ingrained into etiquette and strong work ethics from my dad who knows how it would have turned out. But don't go to college unless you need to (I don't care what other people say if you're spending $50,000+ for a "worthless" degree YOU'RE STUPID - you live in a time where you have more information and knowledge at your fingertips than any other time in human history - fucking use it.) - and if you need to make sure you get a degree that will be in some level of demand. If you're a woman (sorry ladies) close your legs or get on the pill because a child, while a wonderful thing to have, will make things more difficult when you're starting your careers. Don't do stupid shit like criminal behavior that will be on your record. Don't do drugs, including weed, and don't let a negative thing set you back to worthlessness. Be strong. Don't be ashamed to be a plumber/electrician/tradesman either. They are noble jobs just like a doctor, and require a lot of work and pay very well. Society is making a big mistake looking down on them.
 

Zastlyn

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I feel like there was an element to luck with landing my first software job.
That's where I am at in my point of life. I'm trying to break into the I.T sort of field with some certifications. I need to get lucky and find a place that's willing to take a chance on a newbie but I'm influencing how lucky I am by putting in a ton of applications. Where I see my friend who is in the same sort of place bitching a lot about how there is no jobs but he'll put in like 2 applications a week.
 

Mist

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The tech sector needs qualified people so desperately they have to import them from overseas and sponsor them.
You realize this is completely manufactured bullshit right? They're FIRING people and replacing them with H1B visa workers. It's one thing the right and left are in complete agreement about.

Just the latest of hundreds of similar examples:Disney Replaces Longtime IT Staff With H-1B Workers - Slashdot

Southern California Edison IT workers over H-1B replacements | Computerworld
 

chaos

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You realize this is completely manufactured bullshit right? They're FIRING people and replacing them with H1B visa workers. It's one thing the right and left are in complete agreement about.

Just the latest of hundreds of similar examples:Disney Replaces Longtime IT Staff With H-1B Workers - Slashdot
Lady I work in the tech sector, I see the manpower shortages ERRY DAY. I see sub-par candidates getting hired on just to fill a seat because there just aren't enough technically qualified people. I'm picking up the slack of one RIGHT NOW.

I see literally a couple of dozen companies posting every day on twitter that they can't find the right people, that infosec is severely undermanned, that they can't find programmers, shit is a cancer.
 

AladainAF

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Sorry chaos, but I have to go to Mist on this one (Absolutely shocking, I know). When I worked for Symantec, they constantly shuttled out American workers and couldn't issue H1Bs fast enough. The entire Mountain View and Culver City office had to be at least 90% indian. The entire reason I left Symantec was the constant daily enrage of the indian work style being shuttled on us. Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork.

Visa Square : SYMANTEC CORPORATION H1B Visa, Green Card Sponsorship

Visa Square : GOOGLE INC H1B Visa, Green Card Sponsorship

Visa Square : DELL USA H1B Visa, Green Card Sponsorship

The list goes on and on and on.

U.S. Workers Allegedly Fired, Told to 'Train Your Foreign Replacement'

Yes, it's Fox news, but when I was at Dell I got told the same thing. When they switched more to the ODM model (Instead of Dell doing R&D and making their own PCs they just pick
#ASUS_TEMPLATE_01 and slap a Dell sticker on it) they had all of us train all these people (both in foreign countries and all the people they brought over here) on Dells internal processes (How to make a machine from the factory, etc) andmass-fired everyone right after.
 

Mist

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Lady I work in the tech sector, I see the manpower shortages ERRY DAY. I see sub-par candidates getting hired on just to fill a seat because there just aren't enough technically qualified people. I'm picking up the slack of one RIGHT NOW.

I see literally a couple of dozen companies posting every day on twitter that they can't find the right people, that infosec is severely undermanned, that they can't find programmers, shit is a cancer.
I have 6 years educational IT experience and I get recruiter spam all the time too. But those starting pays (at least the local ones) aren't much better than what I make all total between the university system and my IT jobs I do on the side, and they'e not giving me a graduate degree like the situation I'm in now.

I get even more spam now that I put my CS degree down (just finally completed my BS in CS while working on my MS in educational psych.) Right now I could get a job at some EdTech firm if I ever decide to leave academia.

I'm actually a very good bullshitter if we're talking purely academic/intellectual arena. My big problem is that I have a fairly severe speech impediment due to chronic ear infections from the mold in the ghetto apartment I lived in until age 8, so I really avoid the private sector completely, because I'm never going to have a 'big personality.' I will always be an introvert.

And the idea that I'm not successful is kinda bullshit all things considered. I'm not really thriving financially because I've had a lot of setbacks/burdens but I'm not really suffering either. (Being a pathological cheapass and having no 'bad habits' helps there too.) I wish I had gotten where I was now 5 years ago, but natural disasters + depression had other plans and I'm not gonna spend too long beating myself up about it.

I certainly don't resent people who are successful, but I definitely do resent people who won't admit that luck and bullshit don't play a big part.
 

chaos

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Well yeah, what do you expect? Starting salary isn't going to outpace all of that shit. But the higher end is going to far outpace anything you could realistically get at a university. There are more important things than salary, though. One of my professors literally gets paid to sit around fucking with crypto algorithms. I would kill for his job.

MS in eductional psych? I can honestly say I've never seen someone go CS then psych.

If that's all it is I will admit it: luck plays a huge part in success. Everyone who has ever had any success at all has had some lucky breaks. And some unlucky ones too that they had to overcome, but no one remembers those.
 

Mist

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MS in eductional psych? I can honestly say I've never seen someone go CS then psych.
I got hired by the school department at age 15 because I knew more about Windows 95 + Windows NT + networking hardware than either of the techs they had on the payroll, and because I was small enough/crazy enough to run CAT5 in the walls and ceilings of old rural New England-style school buildings.

I did 2.5 years of CS and hated it because URI was/is a very oldschool math+physics centered CS program that has very little to do with writing actual software. I should have picked software engineering. I was the least senior person in my IT shop so my job got axed when the big budget crunch happened in RI around 2005, before the national economy tanked in 2007.

I quit school for a while and taught adult ed classes and fixed computers for teachers and old ladies and local doctors/lawyers/dentists offices. Went back to school for psychology figuring I'd become a computer teacher. Finished my CS degree just now because might as well. I'll finish my MS in edpsych next semester. 90% of my thesis is already done, just need a larger data set than the pilot study I already did on Online Education, emphasis on LMS platforms like Blackboard, Moodle, etc. And then rerun a better analysis.

I'll probably just become a professor and do that until I can get a job consulting for some ed tech firm, or I can probably do both at the same time. I'm not really worried, things have really turned around for me in the past year. I still live an absolutely joyless existence but that's a personal problem and not a professional one.