Crowfall

Vitality

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Have good collision detection, free targeting and...friendly fire. You'd most likely reduce zergs, as it would not gain you a huge advantage before it becomes even a disadvantage to your side.
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Oh god the thumper grief lock... that made staircase fights so crazy.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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One thing to consider Agraza that most of us in this thread aren't currently: Base Building

Base building really hasn't been done on a large scale pvp front in some time, I think the last real game that incorporated this was Anarchy Online to some degree? Maybe EvE online null sec?

Archeage doesn't really count all that much due to property protection and population capped castle seiges.

What I'm getting at is that once you incorporate player owned and unprotected land consumption you start creating a relatively dynamic amount of goals for your playerbase.

Instead of 1000 players being at Irondick mine or a bridge or something farming noobs for honor points, you're instead concerned with whoever might be attacking your base or who's base you want to fuck up.

The real discussion here is what kind of property protection if any are they going to implement? Too much? Everyone spawn camps everyone. Too little? Australians cap your keep at 3am in the morning. **something only the likes of Tuco's group and alliance can deal with**
I'd argue for different protection for different sizes of bases.

Let's assume an average player can mine 100g an hour without having any assets and not taking any risk. This is sort of the baseline where anytime a player isn't making at least 100g an hour or equivalent they're unhappy.

When fully guarded and supplied, Irondick mine generates 1000g an hour. If no PKs are around, 3 players could reasonably operate, guard and supply Irondick mine and each make 3x the baseline rate, but are vulnerable to PKs. If a zerg guild sends 20 dudes to take and hold irondick mine, those 20 dudes are generating half-income, making them lose out. In order to take an unbuilt Irondick Mine into full production it takes a 50g investment and 10 minutes. At any point a group of PKs could wrest control of Irondick from the entrepreneurs.

On the opposite spectrum, Stonedick Castle generates some 3000g an hour. It also requires a 100k gold investment and one week to bring a rekt Stonedick Castle into full production. However it is protected unless it is baned which can happen once every few days. Naturally the defenses of Stonedick Castle are weakened if the surrounding villages, keeps, towers etc are in bad shape.

This is very GW2 like but with one big difference: The players are directly rewarded for having direct control and ownership of an asset. This balance means that entrepreneurs will constantly try to get their supply chain working or compete for supply chains. PKs will constantly be trying to reap rewards from their efforts. A big guild would likely hold Stonedick Castle to generate some passive revenue and we'd get a huge battle over it every few days.
 

Vitality

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So what you're saying is Tertiary resources are unprotected, Secondary Resources are Protected for a medium duration after acquiring them, and Primary Resources are protected for a long duration after acquisition and require a substantial investment in order to take from someone.

I guess I'm fine with that. Gives the big guilds something to work towards and the small nerds something to control for a short period.

My question is primarily in concern for the guilds of 20 that can't afford a protection stone for their little bandit outpost. What kind of protection would be agreeable for that? I'm fine with none, but not many people agree with me.
 

Agraza

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Yea, Vitality I hope there are lots of little objectives that players can control. I'd like a mix between conquerable hardpoints between territories and player erected resource generators. Like maybe there is a mill attached to the bridge that crosses the river between my land and your land. The mill allows refining of base resources or just generates gold as an abstract for its owner. And on my side of the river I've got farms and foresters and the such that I've set up. You can try to own the mill, and I'd like it if you can even take over my farms and foresters as well without having to outright conquer my castle, but that's a bit lofty. Generally territory isn't coded that gradiently.

There should be space for neutrals to exist within empires and between empires too. Like highwaymen setting up in the forest. In EVE all these unaffliated scum are actually very close to the noob zone and rarely have any impact on player empires. They should be a thing, and they should be more of a problem for big organizations than anything else. It would give empires something to do besides fight each other, and put some real fire in the purpose of being said scum. You could have some kind of buccaneer's den type places around the world in inconvenient places (for the empires) that are auto-kos to land-holding organizations but are friendly to landless ones.
 

Vitality

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Yeah Agraza, I'm not trying to go into specifics here because we really don't know what the makers of this game are trying to do with bases or worlds or whatever.

My idea of a fair system is the 3 part land ownership system.

Ideal property protection needs to be a guild wide craftable investment ALA bane stones and protection stones. This cements guilds and alliances together pretty solidly.

A subsequent property protection mechanic would only relate to one of two schemes: Acquisition timers and Building Health.

For instance in EVE it takes a small number of ships a VERY substantial amount of time to destroy a player owned station with attacks.
In other games, it literally takes a small number of dudes less than a minute to destroy a base (ESO).

I feel very strongly that destroying a building of any size should have some length to it, especially if it was player crafted.

Property protection based on building HP and zone-wide ally announcements is the way to go in my opinion. Pair this with a guild favor (rep) system where no-named players can earn some sort of helpful currency for use at a guilds keep and you have a pretty neat way of dealing with property protection and limitations.

Let me upgrade my wall health to take a band of 6 dudes atleast enough time for allies to check out the damage before it going down.
 

Agraza

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Yea, destroying or taking over territory must be a significant investment. I hated in SB that it took us weeks to build something and it took a very new enemy of like 1.7x our total size less than an evening to burn it to the ground. The balance just wasn't there. It was very discouraging. Balancing those numbers is going to take a lot of trial and error. EVE has a slower pace on exchanging control of territory than SB did, and some stuff can't even be destroyed. I like that you can permanently add stations to the map in EVE.
 

Flobee

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Yea, Vitality I hope there are lots of little objectives that players can control. I'd like a mix between conquerable hardpoints between territories and player erected resource generators. Like maybe there is a mill attached to the bridge that crosses the river between my land and your land. The mill allows refining of base resources or just generates gold as an abstract for its owner. And on my side of the river I've got farms and foresters and the such that I've set up. You can try to own the mill, and I'd like it if you can even take over my farms and foresters as well without having to outright conquer my castle, but that's a bit lofty. Generally territory isn't coded that gradiently.

There should be space for neutrals to exist within empires and between empires too. Like highwaymen setting up in the forest. In EVE all these unaffliated scum are actually very close to the noob zone and rarely have any impact on player empires. They should be a thing, and they should be more of a problem for big organizations than anything else. It would give empires something to do besides fight each other, and put some real fire in the purpose of being said scum. You could have some kind of buccaneer's den type places around the world in inconvenient places (for the empires) that are auto-kos to land-holding organizations but are friendly to landless ones.
I like this idea. Allowing independent players and small unaffiliated guilds a role to play in the larger conflict is a good idea. Also this kind of guerrilla style pvp would be very attractive to certain kinds of players if handled correctly.
 

Vitality

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I like this idea. Allowing independent players and small unaffiliated guilds a role to play in the larger conflict is a good idea. Also this kind of guerrilla style pvp would be very attractive to certain kinds of players if handled correctly.
Most of this will probably take place on the FFA and Guild vs Guild PVP ruleset server, if it goes as pitched.

I'm super excited about the multiple ruleset concept. Regardless of game shit-level.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
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FFA server FTW

also, looking at the knight pic again, it just nice to see a visible shield on his back, visible unequipped bow etc.

also how did whatever random guy they found to make the Crowfall theme crush Jeremy Soule's EQN theme?
 

Lasch

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Has there been any discussion about how they are going to handle alts?
I remember star wars galaxies was 1 character per server. Eve has the one character that can "learn". But with this game having so many worlds/rulesets I will want to play in multiple.
 
I think the main thing that will determine how massive or skirmish the PvP will depend on the locations of the resources. If the majority of iron is concentrated in a small area, you will be sure to have many large scale battles. On the other hand, they have already mentioned if you are in strong control of a resource area, you will have the resource production tuned down, so that this balances things out. Low risk and low reward in this instance, but very safe.

The other thing they have mentioned is that places in the middle of no where would yield higher resources, but with that carry higher risk. This is where I see the smaller skirmishes that happen and is what some of us might want to be.

Most things will depend on the location of sites. If your castle is near a graveyard, it will be easier for people to siege your castle - but alternatively very good if you are trying to take over someone else.
 

Daidraco

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A lot of it just sounds like its in the dark and we're waiting on the answer. Though I have noticed the last couple pages that Tuco and Vitality name a lot of places after Dicks. Stone Dick Castle being my favorite.
 

Kharza-kzad_sl

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The tons-of-characters-on-screen problem is a big one. I've not played with direct3D 12 yet, but everything I read about it, and amd's mantle makes me think it would be perfect for big mmo fights.

DirectX and GL that are in use in most games today are made for loading up a static scene and drawing it in as few chunks as possible. MMO players are the opposite of that with each character having their own set of customizations and gear, and all animating independently with some leaving the area and new ones coming in.

In archeage dx9 my gpu load is only around 50% or less in a crowded area because it is constantly waiting on state changes (loading in variables like the color of the players eyes, or changing shaders between draws).
 

Vitality

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I'm in beta group 6, it's based on time of registration from what I can tell. They had an issue with the site allocating group numbers. It doesn't mean a whole lot right now other than that.

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Palum

what Suineg set it to
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I'm in beta group 6, it's based on time of registration from what I can tell. They had an issue with the site allocating group numbers. It doesn't mean a whole lot right now other than that.

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Where do you see that?
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
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Ah OK I was looking in profile in the community area. 6 here too. Of course it'll be group ALPHA once I can pay $250 for the super secret kickstarter package.