Dark

Wow. I can't remember watching a show that gave me a headache trying to figure out wtf is going on. Amazing stuff.

I think the final episode is about 1h. 15min but it took me 2h just from rewinding and trying to understand everything at the end.

This show is definitely in my top 5. I need a mental break, then I will rewatch from the beginning.

Hateyou said:

Spoiler: A couple of things I didn’t understand

What was the point of Noah doing the chair experiments/killings? It never really explained wtf that was. And why did Helge survive it when none of the other kids did?

Also, why did Charlotte and Deaf Girl go back in time and steal her own baby? That seems like something they would only do if they were told it has to happen that way and I don’t remember there ever being an indication of that unless they met with Claudia at some point and she told them to and I don’t remember.

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It's my understanding that those were prototype time machines. They were the technology evolving eventually into the ball time machine. The dude just kept using kids to test it. I'm guessing they had to be made so that the loop could keep going.

I really liked the ending. Probably one of the greatest shows I've seen in a while. :O

finished it, enjoyed it but didnt understand a lot of it. What was the deal with Bartosz's dad, the guy who ran the nuke plant in modern times? He was a time traveler himself? I know he came out of nowhere in 1986 and killed someone? That was one of the bigger plot threads that eluded me, dont know if it wound up mattering though.

Sithro said:

It's my understanding that those were prototype time machines. They were the technology evolving eventually into the ball time machine. The dude just kept using kids to test it. I'm guessing they had to be made so that the loop could keep going.

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Correct. It had to be done to avoid the origin paradox where something spontaneously exists. Noah was the one who had to do the fundamental research into figuring out how the dark matter allows for time travel and did so using kids. Remember the kids did get transported, but they didn't survive the process. The one flaw is that there doesn't seem to be a concrete link where the technology actually functions for the first time.

Attog said:

finished it, enjoyed it but didnt understand a lot of it. What was the deal with Bartosz's dad, the guy who ran the nuke plant in modern times? He was a time traveler himself? I know he came out of nowhere in 1986 and killed someone? That was one of the bigger plot threads that eluded me, dont know if it wound up mattering though.

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I don't think he was a time traveler. He ended up killing the guy and taking his identity. I think they robbed a bank or some crap? I can't quite recall why he killed the other guy.

Then just got a job at the nuke plant and worked up the ladder. It also helped he was sleeping with Regina.

I just hate the paradox of ceasing to exist, yet they still did shit that caused them to cease to exist, which shouldn’t have been possible if they never existed.

Cybsled said:

I just hate the paradox of ceasing to exist, yet they still did shit that caused them to cease to exist, which shouldn’t have been possible if they never existed.

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I have trouble with that too. Or shit like the book. If he only wrote the book because it was given to him from the future, how does the book get written for the very first time.

Right. Using Back to the Future as your model of time travel is dumb.

Cybsled said:

Right. Using Back to the Future as your model of time travel is dumb.

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The time travel shown in this series is different from Back to the Future in literally every way other than it being time travel ?!

It's more like Bill and Ted, actually.
Don't forget to set your watch!

Bill & Ted didn’t give a shit about paradoxes, so they went all out on it. Mentioned Back to the Future because of the whole “Because I changed history, now I am going to cease to exist...which makes the paradox of how did I change history if I never existed”, which doesn’t make sense, because it is basically using a single time stream as it’s basis.

If Marty changing the past makes it so the kids are never born and poof from existence, then he never could have gone back to make the changes that cause him to vanish. Unless you treat time as data on a hard drive and a program that rewrites the data then has to delete itself during rewrite.

Cybsled said:

Bill & Ted didn’t give a shit about paradoxes, so they went all out on it. Mentioned Back to the Future because of the whole “Because I changed history, now I am going to cease to exist...which makes the paradox of how did I change history if I never existed”, which doesn’t make sense, because it is basically using a single time stream as it’s basis.

If Marty changing the past makes it so the kids are never born and poof from existence, then he never could have gone back to make the changes that cause him to vanish. Unless you treat time as data on a hard drive and a program that rewrites the data then has to delete itself during rewrite.

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It does work as their were 3 worlds, not one. Jonah existed in only one and ceased to exist when he prevented the two from occurring from the split in time.

Right, but if the worlds don’t be exist, then he couldn’t have prevented their creation.

It’s like they watched that Doctor Who season when Rory got erased from existence and Amy couldn’t remember him, yet stuff he had done previously still happened, but she just couldn’t attribute it to anything specific.

It works out though? LIke, they don't exist. I don't understand where you're missing this. Those worlds completely dissolve, him included, when they prevent the split. It's not all in the same singlular chronological timeline. It's like Timeline A1 A2 A3 and when Jonah from A2 comes to A and stops it from branching into A1 A2 A3, those timelines are gone, he's gone and Timeline B exists without a B2 and B3. Nothing that he did happened once that changed. None of those people ever existed. There's no remnants of a past Jonah doing stuff. Timeline B was the "real" timeline the other two split from when Tannehaus fractured time.

Action A in world 1 created worlds 2 and 3

Someone from world 2 goes to world 1 and stops action A

Worlds 2 and 3 never exist, including everyone in them

So it can logically be presumed that Action A happened independently from worlds 2 and 3, since said action created those worlds. So the act of erasing action A requires knowledge of the action and the means to alter it. But preventing the action basically deletes knowledge of the action and the people who had knowledge of the action and who actually stopped the action, then how can it actually be stopped by those parties? It’s like an annoying bootstrap paradox where someone of knowledge goes back in time and “invents” it to get rich, but in becoming the inventor, where did the actual invention come from? That can be explained with multiverse where each timeline exists, even if you can no longer access it. But this show doesn’t do that since changes delete the alternatives.