Daybreak Sues The Heroes Journey EQ EMU Server Devs

Mrniceguy said:

Ask the Yerm he is the one that brought it up. But it is something DBG falsely claimed in the court docs.

Click to expand...

Ambiturner said:

Please explain how there's an implied license

Click to expand...

Mrniceguy said:

EQEMU created the code. That's where it came from. It's entirely legal for them to do so. It's existed for 20+ years. It's entirely legal to make EMUs so long as you don't reverse engineer the code or use it to play pirated games. Strangely THJ instructs players to download legal copies of EQ produced by DBG and distributed by Steam and P99 has in the past instructed players to download pirated version of EQ Titanium.



It's really not. It's an important aspect of both Fair Use and Implied Licensing(Permitted Use). If THJ is operating as a non-profit it's really hard to make a case against them having an Implied License, if they're are for profit it's really hard to make the case that do have one. It's probably what will determine the case TBH. Disney IPs won't be treat the same as Daybreaks IPs because they've exhibited very different past behavior(Implied Licensing). You can ABSOLUTELY use someones else's IP to make money, copyright law doesn't explicitly prevent USE. It prevents forms of Copying which can include USE, but Fair USE and Permitted USE both exist as ways to profit off someone else's IP. Permitted use doesn't have to be explicit it can be implict.

You're right on Fair USE grounds THJ likely wouldn't win and Allahkazam likely would win. But that's not the point, the point is to debunk the claim that you can't profit off someones IP without their permission. You absolutely can.

Click to expand...

your_mum said:

naw technically eqemu, just as a piece of source code, is illegal/infringing because they reversed engineered the client/server protocol, more importantly the encryption for certain eq packets (for many versions of the client and server protocol over the years) - that brings it into DRM territory. hosting it is also illegal/infringing because allowing official clients to connect to your server is another way of contributory infringement. THJ even takes it a step further by distributing injections for the client, thus reverse engineering another piece of the software stack, and that brings up DMCA.

Click to expand...

Sylas said:

That's not the slide I was talking about.

That is Monthly average users, and according to that slide, EQ has less than 100k (around 90k?), not 100-200k. I don't believe that for a second, personally, and I hope this lawsuit reveals the real figures. I don't know, maybe they are bringing in tens of thousands of bots/free players each month but that's not the slide I was referring to. There is another slide later on (that they never make full screen) that shows 10-20k subscribers, not monthly average users.

also 90k players x 14.99 a month or whatever the sub is, would be more monthly revenue than they claim, by a lot. So it's got to be lots of f2p mixed in, assuming they sell no krono, which we know is false, most of their income is cash shop not subs.

for the record, looking at the EQ live server status they only have 4 servers with more than 1k players each on them (high). can you imagine thinking they had 100k subs logging in monthly but with so few players playing? THJ has 3k online right now, for the record

Click to expand...

Old Man Potter said:

You’re not really debating here; you’re running interference for Daybreak. By obsessively keeping this conversation locked in legal IP technicalities, you’re shielding them from the real issues: creative failure and community betrayal. It’s classic corporate defense mode. You stay in your safe little legal box so you never have to face what actually matters to players.

The rest of us are here to talk about vision, legacy, and what made EQ feel alive in the first place. We’re asking why two volunteers with no budget can capture the heart of Norrath better than an entire paid studio. Your endless “they own it, so it’s fine” mantra completely misses the point. Owning something doesn’t mean you understand it or deserve respect for it. You can own a garden and still let every flower die.

If you’re happy being the self-appointed IP cop who cheers for shareholder value over worldbuilding, that’s on you. But don’t act like you’re on the same level as people who actually care about what EQ was and what it could still be. You’re gatekeeping the conversation to protect mediocrity. We’re here to talk about soul, something you clearly sold off a long time ago.

Click to expand...

moonarchia said:

No, it is literally to protect Intellectual Property. The original goal and the current goal are aligned in that regard. What Disney did to pervert it was change it from 13 years from release date to 70 years after death of creator, or 95 years for commercial works. Once you can buy congress critters wholesale you are probably overdue for an antitrust breakup, but that's a different kettle of fish.

EQ still has 69 more years before it becomes part of the public domain. You will need to buy it from ENAD or buy enough congress critters to reset copyright lengths if you want to put it into public domain sooner.

Click to expand...

Old Man Potter said:

You are still confusing the mechanism of protecting intellectual property with the purpose of copyright law. Yes, it grants a temporary monopoly to creators as property. That is the mechanism. But the original purpose was to promote progress, encourage new works, and serve the public good, not to let corporations sit on IP forever like dragons on a hoard.

You even admit Disney perverted it, but then immediately default back to "well, that is the law now" as if that settles any moral or creative argument. You are so fixated on legal paperwork that you completely miss why players actually care about these worlds in the first place.

Cool history lesson, though. Too bad it does not address the soul of the conversation.

Click to expand...

your_mum said:

naw technically eqemu, just as a piece of source code, is illegal/infringing because they reversed engineered the client/server protocol, more importantly the encryption for certain eq packets (for many versions of the client and server protocol over the years) - that brings it into DRM territory. hosting it is also illegal/infringing because allowing official clients to connect to your server is another way of contributory infringement. THJ even takes it a step further by distributing injections for the client, thus reverse engineering another piece of the software stack, and that brings up DMCA.

Click to expand...

Mrniceguy said:

So THJ is liable for EQEMU now? Daybreak has officially licensed p99 which requires you to use EQEMU.

I would love to see some proof of this, because in the complaint Daybreak linked to some Githubs. Some of those don't exist and the ones that do aren't linked to the defendants in the case.

Click to expand...

TheRealmOnline said:

Learn the difference between cash and income nerd.

Click to expand...

dragonbr said:

I wish you luck on trying to explain anything to him.

Click to expand...