Depression

Troll_sl

shitlord
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Ugh... those depressive spirals are ugly. I'm sorry about that.

But the good news is, I was able to pull myself out of another spiral on my own for the first time. And stop another before it started. I know how to do it. I just need to practice now.

It kinda feels like a clean breeze. I'm cautiously optimistic. And even if I can't do it every time, I know what works now.
 

Vaclav

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Definitely be cautious, but yea, as I was (trying to at least) telling you during the spiral - a large part is training your brain to not dwell and such - something can suck, but be in the moment with it be a bit bummed then move onto something else - if you find yourself needing to dwell, focus on the positive - there's always small victories to focus on you just need to learn how to.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
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This weekend sucked and my go-to coping mechanism seems to more and more often be going to sleep. I guess I'm fortunate that it is low on the list of self-destructive behaviors but it's still on the list, and is especially common for avoidants.

At least it's not keeping me from sleeping at night. Hell, sleeping has never been easier - anxiety used to make it difficult for me to go to sleep on any night where I had to be up a specific time the next day. Early classes, regular job schedule, any event at all that required an alarm = hello insomnia. I just didn't know why because I didn't fucking tell anyone.

So you know, two naps in the same day is still an improvement in a way.
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
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Hell, sleeping has never been easier - anxiety used to make it difficult for me to go to sleep on any night where I had to be up a specific time the next day. Early classes, regular job schedule, any event at all that required an alarm = hello insomnia. I just didn't know why because I didn't fucking tell anyone. .
This sounds so much like me but I've honestly never really associated it with any kind of depression. My brain just won't turn off if there is an alarm coming. Maybe it's some form of anxiety. I don't necessary love work. I also don't hate it. But if it's a work night I'm laying there daydreaming until I pass out from pure exhaustion. I know that isn't healthy. Weekends? Shit. Out like a light for 8-9 hours.
 

Troll_sl

shitlord
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6
I've gone more than a week without a depressive spiral for the first time... in a long time. Since before I started getting treated. I'm not feelinggood. But I guess I feel... balanced. I'm okay just being. Well, as okay as you could be working full time, going to school full time and getting almost no sleep most days.
 

Vaclav

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I've gone more than a week without a depressive spiral for the first time... in a long time. Since before I started getting treated. I'm not feelinggood. But I guess I feel... balanced. I'm okay just being. Well, as okay as you could be working full time, going to school full time and getting almost no sleep most days.
I'd work on fixing the sleep if there's any hope that you can - but that's great to hear man - that first good week really was when I stopped being anxious of "I'm feeling good, but something bad has GOT to happen soon" style paranoia that wasn't helping - if my experience is indicative of how things are for most people - you're almost through the woods.

I'd say "Congrats" if I knew my results will typical, but since I don't know if they are, I'll just say it the way I did - I think you might well being on the part where what was an uphill climb starts to feel like a gentle glide to feeling normal. I'm not sure, so don't be devastated if I end up being wrong, but you're describing the turning point for me.
 

Troll_sl

shitlord
1,703
6
The sleep will come next term. For now... just gotta deal.

The best I can describe it, is it feelsright.I don't feel cured by any means. It's still there. But it just isn't the dominant voice in my head right now.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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I decided to move this into the depression thread because I don't think this will be a discussion about parenting at this point.

So my 13 year old daughter and I were texting tonight, I am on the east coast and she is on the west. She said she made an awesome smoothie. We chatted, told her I was going to bed. My wife calls me from her work about 30 minutes after that saying she just got off the phone with the paramedics where they responded to a 911 call from my daughter because she had cut her arm with a butcher knife while slicing up bananas. She cut her left arm which is her dominant hand so she was using a knife with her right hand. She claims it was not on purpose but she is currently seeing a psychiatrist for previous claims of wanting to kill herself followed up with some mild "cutting" which was basically scratches.

I don't know what to do. My wife is driving to the ER and going to tell them she thinks it was self inflicted because we just don't know at this point. To be an accident all the stars would have to align. This is after only 3 days ago she slipped in the kitchen and almost broke her arm requiring an ER visit at 10 PM.

She is currently on prozac and her doctor said she doesn't think she is bipolar but I don't think you can be texting your dad joking about the cat not liking your smoothie and then cutting your wrists with a butcher knife 30 minutes later. The problem is what if she IS telling the truth? I just don't know.

Nothing you guys can do but I just needed to type things out and look at them and see what works.
So the hospital didn't admit her because she wouldn't say it was on purpose. I don't understand what they can do then. She admitted to my wife that it was a mix between accident and then more than one cut to see how it felt but not a suicide attempt so there is that. Seven stitches though so even her just seeing what it felt like could be disastrous next time.

Right now we are tiptoeing around that she isn't in trouble but she also can't do things like that and still retain her autonomous privileges. Such a frustrating and time consuming process to take a little girl and get her through life. I don't wish the experience on anyone. If we survive it and so does she it will make the cancer look lik a common cold!
Thanks for the suggestions, they are all good things.

1.) Yeah we have always been good about that and doing it even more when we can. My wife is less good about it but she has gotten better immensely in the last year.

2.) She was home with her 13 year old twin. There is a fine line between allowing them some kind of autonomy and total lockdown and we are looking for that. You are very right it's something that has to change.

3.) She has a therapist right now that supposedly was good with all those topics and she likes the therapist and her therapist just told us this same week that overall she feels like she is doing quite well ... I don't really feel like we are getting our money's worth. At this point I worry about changing therapists right before our move and then another change once she moves as well. She claims the therapy is helping and she likes it. We can only take her at her word though and it doesn't quite seem like that is the case, not even sure.

4.) This one is interesting. Statistically the people that cut in any way like this and do these cries for attention are young white girls in stable families with very little problems. That is our family pretty much. We have two big issues that came up, me getting cancer and then getting better and then me moving over to the east coast to prep everything for them all to move over here at the end of the school year. The cancer thing was "easy" and I am not sure they ever quite got it since I was barely sick at all visibly and it only took 6 months. The moving was only 2 weeks ago and not our first time of having a short separation. We are being very careful about trying to find out how she feels about family and everything else and trying to meet her expectations within reason.
So my wife picked up her laptop yesterday and google chrome was open. It has the most recent sites tab, one of them was "how to break your own arm". A day before she cut her arm she had "slipped" in the kitchen and almost broke her arm requiring an ER visit. Now it turns out that was not an accident.

I spent all day on the phone with insurance and every hospital in the San Diego area. We are taking her in to be evaluated for a partial hospitalization program and looking into DBT therapy for teens.

Has anyone else done either of these things as a teen or for your teen?
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
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God that sucks, suin. I don't have any input other than to say I'm sorry you and your family have to go through that. Sounds very scary.

I was really close with a girl that cut back in college but it wasn't ever that severe. She had abuse in her childhood which is what she always blamed it on. To me it seemed like an attention thing. This scenario obviously isn't really comparable.
 

Troll_sl

shitlord
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6
I can empathize with the desire to cut, even though I never actually did.

For me, it was about feelinganything.The anhedonia was such a powerful factor in my depression, sometimes, that even physical pain was a relief from the unending monotony. I used a sewing needle. I rarely actually broke the skin. Usually I'd scrape it across the surface, just for the sensation. It had nothing to do with attention, for me. While that may be a part of it, I don't think it's the whole thing, or even the main motivation behind the act of self-inflicting.

But of course, everyone is different. I can't really say what she's going through or what she's thinking. I can't imagine having to worry about a child like that.

Probably why I never told my own parents about what I'm going through.

But she has you. You know. She can be helped.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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Well, these are certainly cries for attention.

I'm still half convinced that beating her half raw with a belt would stop it. It probably would, but then she'd probably just start smoking weed and fucking kneegrows instead. So maybe your plan is the more reasonable one.

I just remember this type of girl from my own youth. They don't have any real problems so they have to manufacture some. And, unfortunately, the ones they manufacture are not fake. They're just assumed. Maybe a program will help. Is she old enough to force her ass to get a part time job? Because then you can give her some real problems of her own without needing the belt. And she can get a little bit of money to boot.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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Nah, this is adolescent female behavior.

You could fix it with a belt. I don't suggest you do, but you could.

Self pity is not a treatment plan.
 

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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Bit over the top, Iannis
smile.png


Anyway, dad has disease, gets treatment, attention. Girl feels neglected, wants attention, fabricates disease, gets attention. Something along those lines. Cognitive therapy is probably the way to go for her.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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Bit over the top, Iannis
smile.png


Anyway, dad has disease, gets treatment, attention. Girl feels neglected, wants attention, fabricates disease, gets attention. Something along those lines. Cognitive therapy is probably the way to go for her.
Oh I am of the same opinion as Iannis and that is how I was raised and it worked ... for me. It does have its merits. Her therapist and psychiatrist have both said that girls like her do what they do because they have no problems and need to make something up.

On to the cancer thing. We are taking that into outer thought process but highly doubt it is playing into her problems. It is hard to explain but I will try. I made cancer look like it wasn't an issue. I was very rarely looking sick or acting sick. We didn't discuss it much at all. We told them that this treatment was going to fix it and they never actually grasped that I was in any danger at all. A lot of people want to latch on to it but any discussion with her would show you she did not think anything of it.

The attention she might be seeking is a good point. It is confusing though. The arm thing she downplayed huge. She wasn't seeking any kind of pain meds or special treatment. It genuinely seemed like an accident and we aren't real big carers about injuries, you fix the issue and move on, no special treatment and she knows that. Maybe that's why she sliced her arm open a few days later? Not sure.

The thing is she is externally the most confident girl you meet and most of the time quite bubbly so the inner conflict is hard to see and react to. I just don't know how to deal with someone that is presented with the option to tell you everything that is going on and you will give them that attention they need and try to fix it instead just lies and says they are just fine. How can I help if she says she is fine and externally seems fine?

Anyways her therapist said the partial hospitalization would do good. My daughter is happy with that and we think it's because yet again she gets her way since she doesn't want to go to school and she doesn't see this is treatment but a way to meet new friends ....
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Yea, hospitalization if it won't disrupt her life can really help. (Not sure the "partial" bit though? For a couple days only or just consistent visits but technically outpatient? Former > Latter in my personal experience)
 

a_skeleton_03

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Partial basically means she spends her time there instead of school. It is more intensive than most outpatient but without the need for her to be a clear and present danger to herself that inpatient requires.
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
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Oh I am of the same opinion as Iannis and that is how I was raised and it worked ... for me. It does have its merits. Her therapist and psychiatrist have both said that girls like her do what they do because they have no problems and need to make something up.

On to the cancer thing. We are taking that into outer thought process but highly doubt it is playing into her problems. It is hard to explain but I will try. I made cancer look like it wasn't an issue. I was very rarely looking sick or acting sick. We didn't discuss it much at all. We told them that this treatment was going to fix it and they never actually grasped that I was in any danger at all. A lot of people want to latch on to it but any discussion with her would show you she did not think anything of it.

The attention she might be seeking is a good point. It is confusing though. The arm thing she downplayed huge. She wasn't seeking any kind of pain meds or special treatment. It genuinely seemed like an accident and we aren't real big carers about injuries, you fix the issue and move on, no special treatment and she knows that. Maybe that's why she sliced her arm open a few days later? Not sure.

The thing is she is externally the most confident girl you meet and most of the time quite bubbly so the inner conflict is hard to see and react to. I just don't know how to deal with someone that is presented with the option to tell you everything that is going on and you will give them that attention they need and try to fix it instead just lies and says they are just fine. How can I help if she says she is fine and externally seems fine?

Anyways her therapist said the partial hospitalization would do good. My daughter is happy with that and we think it's because yet again she gets her way since she doesn't want to go to school and she doesn't see this is treatment but a way to meet new friends ....

I don't have a ton of experience but let me throw this out there. I realize I may be way off base and don't know you or your family.

At the hospital when you act stoic like some kids do that brings its own level of attention. Nurses constantly asking if you're in pain, what is your pain number, "wow look at you you're so strong you don't need meds etc" VS when they get shot up with morphine or roxicet they know they are good for a bit. The act of refusal is something not ordinary as most people are looking to get juiced up and as such, especially for a child, attention would flow. If that was the goal, even if not initially, the subsequent following attention (do you have pain, are you sure, wow you're so strong!) might of kept the answer no?

Your situation might of been quick with the cancer relatively. However there could be other things in the past that brought about a need for attention. Daddy has to go to chemo on Wednesdays. Daddy has to get a checkup. Even if they don't understand exactly what is going on its still a break from routine. If you travel a good bit and are away from home that makes it even more special as when dad comes home its usually a big deal for kids. Then you have to go for medical stuff, even if they dont' know what it is they know you're gone somewhere for x hours.

How long are you away from home usually? Did this stuff start around the time you started going away? Has there been any coincidence of occurrence when she is just with your wife vs when you're home? Did this start around the time you or someone else was dealing with illness and required special trips either for treatment or diagnosis? How about a friend that does this and its monkey see monkey do? Perhaps not as bad as she is kind of experimenting with it to see what the risk vs reward is.

If I were in the situation those would be the things I'd be asking myself and I'm sure you've already done that.

I don't pretend to understand this situation. I dated a girl that did this a long time ago. It was almost certainly attention based and I even got her to admit it after the fact as once we dated it stopped entirely and she could talk about it with me. Ultimately she even said it was stupid but when a girl feels neglected, maybe that isn't the right word but when she feels a lack of attention I guess it can force some to do crazy things. In her case her dad was a closet faggot who was nuts, went to the bar every night got drunk, ran around neighbors houses and jerked off in the bushes while her mom sat on the internet as professional forum troll on AOL and pretty much ignored the kids. She had two brothers who fought for attention, was a middle child and had some issues as a result. I guess I wasn't surprised that she had some issues with attention.

I hope I never understand or experience it with my kids as its got to be a terrible thing. I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Hopefully you can get it under wraps.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Thanks Kedwyn we will take those questions and look into them a little deeper.

The main issue where we feel this is more drastic than we can handle is the inconsistencies in her. There are definitely times where we can tell she is just wanting attention and while she can be annoying during those times we work with her and overall she gets plenty of attention. Then she will do something you think she wants attention over but she won't accept it during that time. We just can't get it locked down and I think she doesn't even know what she wants.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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I think troll might have been thinking I was making light of it. No, it's a growing pain and a serious enough thing. And yeah, maybe I went a little hard on the commit violence angle. I'll give him that. I was low on patience last night.

A son would go out and vandalize shit. Little girls do really weird shit.

At least she isn't going anorexic. That's worse, and it's something they can psych themselves into.