Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls

Seananigans_sl said:

I don't get how you can say ARPGs are better controlled with a gamepad. You must never play characters that use ranged attacks or enjoy poor aiming, or something.

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Movement with an analog stick is vastly superior to a keyboard or Diablo 3's retarded mouse-movement.

ARPG Diablo-clones designed around a gamepad are typically built a bit differently though in regards to spells and abilities. Usually they don't have much in the way of circle-target abilities that you place or they're a not something you use very often. Most stuff is designed so you move with the left stick and aim the direction of abilities with the right stick, which means they're mostly cone or line abilities and it works incredibly smoothly when done right.

Think of it like being a turret and directional abilities are prioritized over targeted abilities, so there's nothing poor about the aiming what so ever. Top-down view games play great with a gamepad with that kind of design.

Full on console fanboyism going on here. D3 for PS looks terrible, will control worse and inventory looks like a nightmare. If you have a PC why you'd subject yourself to it is beyond me.

Sean_sl said:

Movement with an analog stick is vastly superior to a keyboard or Diablo 3's retarded mouse-movement.

ARPG Diablo-clones designed around a gamepad are typically built a bit differently though in regards to spells and abilities. Usually they don't have much in the way of circle-target abilities that you place or they're a not something you use very often. Most stuff is designed so you move with the left stick and aim the direction of abilities with the right stick, which means they're mostly cone or line abilities and it works incredibly smoothly when done right.

Think of it like being a turret and directional abilities are prioritized over targeted abilities, so there's nothing poor about the aiming what so ever. Top-down view games play great with a gamepad with that kind of design.

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At first I thought, you were crazy. Playing PoE with its qwert+mouse is pretty near perfect, save the extra mouse buttons it needs.

But, you can look at that vid I posted, about the possibly of offline play. Early in the vid, Metzen claims Blizzard invented Arpgs. which is patently false. The origins are on consoles and arcades. Gauntlet is the single most direct predecessor. roguelikes for the RPG and procedurally gen elements of course. And a bit of other top down shooters like Rambo etc. So I can see it.
As noted. looting would be the main problem with their current design.

ARPG only works for consoles if they were made from inception for the console. Obviously some will argue D3 was but playing through it I don't see how it will work better with a gamepad. The game it probably most mirrors is Champions of Norrath and although it played decently with the gamepad it still suffered from inaccurate looting, bad inventory management and annoying and frustrating menus. All three of these things seem to be prevalent for D3. Like I said in a previous post D3 probably will be the best ARPG on the PS3. I'm sure it will be good -- but if you think it'll be better to play on a gamepad instead of KBM you are sipping some serious kool aid.

Personally I prefer mouse/keyboard to gamepad for this kind of game. KBM just has more flexibility and accuracy, and doesn't lose any convenience for it (especially since the "click to move" thing has long since been fixed.)

And the types of characters I like to play (caster types with lots of targeted abilities) just don't translate very well to gamepad.

Or since it has offline mode just hack the fuck out of your character

Tenks_sl said:

ARPG only works for consoles if they were made from inception for the console. Obviously some will argue D3 was but playing through it I don't see how it will work better with a gamepad. The game it probably most mirrors is Champions of Norrath and although it played decently with the gamepad it still suffered from inaccurate looting, bad inventory management and annoying and frustrating menus. All three of these things seem to be prevalent for D3. Like I said in a previous post D3 probably will be the best ARPG on the PS3. I'm sure it will be good -- but if you think it'll be better to play on a gamepad instead of KBM you are sipping some serious kool aid.

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There's no kool aid dude. Movement is better on a gamepad, period. Analog sticks are a superior movement method over keyboard due to keyboard movement being only 1s and 0s. And click-to-move is well, dumb. Diablo 3 should have shipped with WSAD movement at least.

The best of both worlds would be something like the G13 pad with an analog stick (a much better one than the G13 has) + a mouse together. Though the mouse part only matters when you're dealing with a character that mostly uses targeted abilities rather than direction. For directional there is no difference what so ever.

This is purely from a gameplay/fighting shit perspective though, not inventory/menu management which is always going to be clunky without a mouse.

I'm more curious how they will handle looting. And if they have some elegant method such as standing in the middle of a pile and hitting a button to auto-loot.... fuck I want that for the PC version. If I could filter it to pick up all gems/toms/yellows/etc automatically, that would be awesome. So many times I accidentally click a blue item while moving trying to pick up something else and its just annoying.

WTF is the argument no one uses WASD for movement in Diablo. I hold my right click button with my mouse to WW and I guide it with my mouse. It is 100% analog.

Are you seriously trying to say that "Point and Click" movement is precise control? lolololol. Yeah, stopped reading there. Diablo 3's system works somewhat, but it's not really "Point and Click", it's more like you hold down your mouse and drive the character. Most Point and Click movement isn't actually controlling your character at all.

Also Diablo 3's movement style is awful for moving and fighting at the same time.

Seananigans_sl said:

Do you understand the definition of these terms? Digital (point-and-click) means you click somewhere, and the fucking character moves to exactly that point. Precision.

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Direct control is way better than pointing where you want to go and clicking. It may be precise for positioning a character somewhere, but it's god awful for moving around in the heat of battle and inferior to directly controlling movement.

Sean it sounds like you weren't playing diablo right or something, there really is nothing awkward about using the mouse to move and attack things.

an accordion_sl said:

Sean it sounds like you weren't playing diablo right or something, there really is nothing awkward about using the mouse to move and attack things.

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I don't know if I'd call it awkward, but I'd definitely prefer a gamepad for my WW barb or my CM wizard. Probably the monk too, dunno about the witch doctor or the demon hunter.

No, I just greatly preferdirectly controlling my characterwith a separate input method from the mouse. WSAD movement + Mouse to aim abilities would have been better and a stick + mouse would be the best.

It's far, far more fun to play Action RPGs with direct control. Guided movement is awkward in comparison.

While there is no doubt that Diablo 3 can work on a console, it would have to be a dumbed down version, by neccessity.

First off, for classes such as monks, moving and attacking at the same time is agodsend. Separate controls for movement plus aiming would suck for a monk, it's much easier to play when these are combined, there is no "aiming". It's the ultimate dumbed-down toon, and I'm proud to play it. Literally I just point where I move and attack at the same time holding down the mouse button, and everything is taken care of. I don't use WASD, everything is done with the mouse. This will translate very well to consoles with a gamepad. Other examples would be WW barbs and CM wizards. All three of these classes, you could make an argument for an auto-attack feature (I wouldn't have to hold down the mouse button anymore!), and just focus on movement.

Now, I think we can all agree that any game where you need to quickly (and/or accurately) point to any part of the screen, a mouse+keyboard combo is superior to a gamepad. Almost every FPS like Call of Duty is better with a M+K because of this. There are certain aspects of Diablo where this is required. Ranged classes like demon hunters being one. Picking up loot would be another. Equipping and gemming items would be a third, although this can be mitigated somewhat. This is where a console version of Diablo 3 will suffer compared to the PC version.

Lastly, there of course is text inputs, where a keyboard is just necessary. In Diablo 3, this means the Auction House and chat windows. I just can't imagine doing either of those things with a gamepad. You could say "well, you could get a keyboard for your console", but let's be realistic, 1) I bet less than 10% of all users have a keyboard hooked into their XBox or PS3 atm, and 2) if you are like me, most gamers, we play our consoles in the living room, on a couch, I'm sure as hell not typing with a keyboard on my lap. Hence, I think, one of the reasons for the poor adoption of keyboards with game consoles.

So the PS4 version of Diablo 3 will probably have no chat window functionality, and the auction house will likely be a clumsy mechanic, with "smart-fill"...type in "ar" and you get "archon". Normally this wouldn't be a big issue, except that in Diablo 3, the Auction House is a HUGE part of the gaming experience, for better or worse.

Lastly, although I realize that PS4 and PC versions will likely have different server clusters, I think that's unfortunate. I would never buy the PS4 version having the PC version myself.....however, if they did share servers, and my toons would be available on the PS4 because I would be using the same Blizzard account....that would sway me to buy the PS4 version so I could occasionally just play the "lazy" version on my couch. After all, I would still be able to advance my toons.

Izuldan_sl said:

So the PS4 version of Diablo 3 will probably have no chat window functionality, and the auction house will likely be a clumsy mechanic, with "smart-fill"...type in "ar" and you get "archon". Normally this wouldn't be a big issue, except that in Diablo 3, the Auction House is a HUGE part of the gaming experience, for better or worse.

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Are you seriously not using the smart fill when browsing the AH currently?