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Mizake

Mizake

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mkopec said:
I can admit im not a game designer, all I know that items in this game just feel bad. Like misty said, too many shitty affixes. Now you can tell me about other games and compare, blah, blah, but im speaking on items in THIS GAME, not poe or whatever the fuck. they just feel bad. There is no reason that one should go for 10+ levels in this game without one fucking upgrade because the items are just that bad.
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I mean, at some point companies decided the people that play ARPGs are masochists. I know you don't want to compare it to other ARPGs, but if you've played the others, they have the same kind of painful grind. PoE - I mean, why the pain of trying to gamble to get a 6-link weapon mod? Of the right color combos? Why not let them drop more? How many mirrors ever dropped during your years of play? How many HHs? Losing exp on death?

If you were to name the current ARPG champ outside of D4, I think it would have to be PoE, and obviously Blizzard looked at PoE when they designed D4 because I see similar elements that are in D4 that came from PoE that never existed in previous Diablo games. Which comes to your point about shitty affixes, prefixes, shitty ways to reroll them....PoE is an endless stream of useless gear with the occasional one in a million hit. The one thing they need to copy as well is being able to not only reroll affixes, but also reroll ranges.

Having so many worthless affixes and having huge ranges (like why is that even a thing?) is by design to keep you playing. Obviously if they had it too easy to get perfect items, you would get those items sooner, and you would stop playing sooner. If it bothered players so much, they would quit.....but they don't quit, do they? People have been playing PoE for a decade putting up with this shit. Lesson learned by Blizzard.
 
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Kirun

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mkopec said:
I can admit im not a game designer, all I know that items in this game just feel bad. Like misty said, too many shitty affixes. Now you can tell me about other games and compare, blah, blah, but im speaking on items in THIS GAME, not poe or whatever the fuck. they just feel bad. There is no reason that one should go for 10+ levels in this game without one fucking upgrade because the items are just that bad.
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I mean, I've spent 40+ levels with the same items in PoE leagues before? Would you say that is also a shitty feeling game? I wouldn't.

D4 feels bad..TO YOU. I'm not saying D4 doesn't have itemization issues (literally EVERY fucking RPG that has ever existed does), but the suggestions on how to improve it are just braindead. It's literally creating systems that made D3 and others such shitty games.

Like I said, gamers think they know what they want. But they often don't really want those things and don't realize it until it's too late.
 
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BoozeCube

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Mizake said:
I mean, at some point companies decided the people that play ARPGs are masochists. I know you don't want to compare it to other ARPGs, but if you've played the others, they have the same kind of painful grind. PoE - I mean, why the pain of trying to gamble to get a 6-link weapon mod? Of the right color combos? Why not let them drop more? How many mirrors ever dropped during your years of play? How many HHs? Losing exp on death?

If you were to name the current ARPG champ outside of D4, I think it would have to be PoE, and obviously Blizzard looked at PoE when they designed D4 because I see similar elements that are in D4 that came from PoE that never existed in previous Diablo games. Which comes to your point about shitty affixes, prefixes, shitty ways to reroll them....PoE is an endless stream of useless gear with the occasional one in a million hit. The one thing they need to copy as well is being able to not only reroll affixes, but also reroll ranges.

Having so many worthless affixes and having huge ranges (like why is that even a thing?) is by design to keep you playing. Obviously if they had it too easy to get perfect items, you would get those items sooner, and you would stop playing sooner. If it bothered players so much, they would quit.....but they don't quit, do they? People have been playing PoE for a decade putting up with this shit. Lesson learned by Blizzard.
Click to expand...

You don't want to make it to easy but if you play for to long without any hits then you just quit. They missed the bar by a fucking lot.

Also in games where trading isn't pure faggot ass aids you can get a 2nd drop of X,Y,Z item and still be exciting. In aids 4 its vendored. They fuckd themselves in the ass on items in this one.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Mizake said:
I mean, at some point companies decided the people that play ARPGs are masochists. I know you don't want to compare it to other ARPGs, but if you've played the others, they have the same kind of painful grind. PoE - I mean, why the pain of trying to gamble to get a 6-link weapon mod? Of the right color combos? Why not let them drop more? How many mirrors ever dropped during your years of play? How many HHs? Losing exp on death?

If you were to name the current ARPG champ outside of D4, I think it would have to be PoE, and obviously Blizzard looked at PoE when they designed D4 because I see similar elements that are in D4 that came from PoE that never existed in previous Diablo games. Which comes to your point about shitty affixes, prefixes, shitty ways to reroll them....PoE is an endless stream of useless gear with the occasional one in a million hit. The one thing they need to copy as well is being able to not only reroll affixes, but also reroll ranges.

Having so many worthless affixes and having huge ranges (like why is that even a thing?) is by design to keep you playing. Obviously if they had it too easy to get perfect items, you would get those items sooner, and you would stop playing sooner. If it bothered players so much, they would quit.....but they don't quit, do they? People have been playing PoE for a decade putting up with this shit. Lesson learned by Blizzard.
Click to expand...

The thing is, like your POE example, there are other avenues for you to get items. Even if you have the shittiest luck playing ARPG, you can still partake in one of their several crafting avenues, which they have PLENTY of, and even if you dont go that route and still dropping trash, you can always go to marketplace and buy items. So youre not just locked into "drops" like this game is.

But yeah, these games are grindy as fuck, ive played all of them. The thing is in those other games there is always other avenues of getting upgrades if you have a run of shit luck.
 
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Xevy

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I think they should add the gem cost for enchant rerolls as well as gold. Just like D3.

Then you'd really be in for a treat.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

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mkopec said:
I can admit im not a game designer, all I know that items in this game just feel bad. Like misty said, too many shitty affixes. Now you can tell me about other games and compare, blah, blah, but im speaking on items in THIS GAME, not poe or whatever the fuck. they just feel bad. There is no reason that one should go for 10+ levels in this game without one fucking upgrade because the items are just that bad.
Click to expand...
They feel bad, to you. Last Epoch items feel bad to me but you seem to love it. 10 levels without an upgrade in this game? I think in last epoch I went 25+ levels without upgrading anything, and that's not even endgame levels exclusively.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Kirun said:
I mean, I've spent 40+ levels with the same items in PoE leagues before? Would you say that is also a shitty feeling game? I wouldn't.
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Gear isn't nessesarily the primary way to progress in PoE. The skill tree and the gems are a big part of it too. So you can throw on some good enough uniques and forget about gear while you level other stuff up.

Diablo 2 has an element of this too, levelling up to get more skill points is a powerful way to progress. Again you could just be wearing some low level uniques with some good mods and focus on your build.

Diablo 4 stops giving you skill points after 60, paragon is really weak, so gear is all you have. Also without enough +dogooders from the gear you are screwed, so you can't just keep low level items.
 
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Fucker

Fucker

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Chris said:
Diablo 4 stops giving you skill points after 60, paragon is really weak, so gear is all you have. Also without enough +dogooders from the gear you are screwed, so you can't just keep low level items.
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Their implementation of paragon is pure trash, but the glyphs contained therein is a huge source of power.
 
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mkopec

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Chris said:
Gear isn't nessesarily the primary way to progress in PoE. The skill tree and the gems are a big part of it too. So you can throw on some good enough uniques and forget about gear while you level other stuff up.

Diablo 2 has an element of this too, levelling up to get more skill points is a powerful way to progress. Again you could just be wearing some low level uniques with some good mods and focus on your build.

Diablo 4 stops giving you skill points after 60, paragon is really weak, so gear is all you have. Also without enough +dogooders from the gear you are screwed, so you can't just keep low level items.
Click to expand...
This is a great point. this games non item progression essentially stops at 50. then they trickle feed some +5% BS for the next 50.
and paragon power is great, but it comes in spurts every 10 or so levels, the rest is just drip feeding you hopium.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

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Chris said:
Gear isn't nessesarily the primary way to progress in PoE. The skill tree and the gems are a big part of it too.

Diablo 4 stops giving you skill points after 60, paragon is really weak, so gear is all you have. Also without enough +dogooders from the gear you are screwed, so you can't just keep low level items.
Click to expand...
Inb4 the post comparing paragon to poe skill tree gets quoted again to continue proving how low your iq is.
 
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Lumi

Lumi

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Are the servers unplayable for anyone else? I've had between 200-800ms for the past hour.
 
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Chris

Chris

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PoE skill tree has a mix of low impact travel nodes with generic stats, medium impact nodes focused on your build and high impact game changing nodes.

D4 paragon board is almost all low impact travel nodes, then you have to take even more of them to turn on the medium impact nodes.

The only game changing node I saw was rogue getting vulnerable on any hit. I'm lv66ish and never turned on that node. I do like the ability to level up the glyphs and that's what I needed to do, but turning on one passive isn't enough to keep me going for 20 levels farming dungeons and paragon points.

So the focus shifts to the gear which doesn't require investment to drop... but it's shit too.
 
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Furry

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Kirun said:
Like I said, gamers think they know what they want. But they often don't really want those things and don't realize it until it's too late.
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I want to be able to play offline. That’s the one reason I didn’t and won’t buy this game. I just come here for the chortles.
 
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Argarth

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I get the talk about the shit stats on loot, but D4 isn't even in the same universe as PoE when it comes to shit loot.

You can't fully compare the two on that front, because PoE is at it's heart a stock market/trading simulator, your character is a currency vacuum cleaner, and there's an ARPG bolted on top. Trading is Chris Wilson's religion, and I hope that shit never infects D4. Ever wondered why the personal stash in PoE is still so tiny after all these years?
Horses for courses - I wanted a brand new top-tier SSF ARPG, and now I have one.

In the 60s now on my Rogue, having a ton of fun juggling aspects, upgrades, a bit of enchanting. Still wearing a lvl 41 chest, doesn't bother me in the least, several rare candidates in the stash for conversion, but I'm holding out. It's not stopping me from having fun or melting demons, and when one finally drops I'll be as happy as a clam, until the next one.

Sure, there are plenty of things that can be improved, and maybe the loot gets worse in the late late game, I'll see soon enough. Oh, and Helltides are the bomb.
 
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Mizake

Mizake

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BoozeCube said:
You don't want to make it to easy but if you play for to long without any hits then you just quit. They missed the bar by a fucking lot.

Also in games where trading isn't pure faggot ass aids you can get a 2nd drop of X,Y,Z item and still be exciting. In aids 4 its vendored. They fuckd themselves in the ass on items in this one.
Click to expand...

For sure items need improving, that's not even a question. Drop rates are fine imo, but the drop range is too large. I don't need items dropping 50 levels below my current ilvl that aren't even usable. Make it like +/- 20 so I don't feel so bad having to equip something way too low just because it rolled perfect.

Also, that's the whole point of seasons, right? Because almost no one plays D3 or PoE with a single character. Everyone plays for 2 weeks or whatever it takes to get all the rewards, shelves the game, then comes back for the next season. Essentially you have played Season 0 of Diablo IV. If they can adjust the loot better, then all they need to do is be able to keep their playerbase happy for the 2-4 weeks they play each season, then return the for next one. They just need to fine tune the loop.
 
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