Doctor Who

Chukzombi

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isnt there a line in the episode that says something like, "if the daleks knew what we had they would be calling for reinforcements right now"? i assume that means that while there was a billion billion daleks there, they had more in reserve chilling out somewhere.
 

velk

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I realize some part of it is simply budget constraints plus the inability to adequately visualize the abstract fighting they were actually doing (fighting the same fight over and over in time, causing ripples in reality, etc..). So, they show pewpewlazers and more traditional 'war' for us to understand it.. BUT, in the previous episodes with Rassilon and the high council, that one woman says 'this is merely the furthest edge of the timewar, at the center billions die every day'. We've previously been told other races were involved as well, but if that episode and the high council events are happening at the same time, how is it that all the daleks are at gallifrey but that's not even the center of the war?
I guess the Moment could kill all the daleks everywhere, but why was it necessary to kill the Timelords as well anyway?
The chick in the first one didn't know there were billions of daleks surrounding gallifrey at the time presumably ;p From the pre-show clip about Arcadia, it was a total sneak attack on gallifrey, which they thought was impregnable.

Was there any indication that the moment could kill all daleks everywhere ? I got the impression that it was just blowing up gallifrey and the surroundings, which happened to contain almost all the daleks at the time.
 

geffe71_sl

shitlord
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What line are you referring to? I thought we just got a shot of his eyeballs.
Agreed. Two members have mentioned this so its not just one person hearing it. I watched the scene a few times to pick up if I recognize any of the episodes they pulled the other doctors from and I believe the "No sir, all thirteen" was from the second in command after the General said "didnt know i was so well off, all twelve".

As for that, I think they were suprised there were 13. It may be just me, but i got the vibe from the General that The doctor isnt well liked on Gallifrey after his shenanigans throughout the years and they do not like dealing with him. I think that exchange came from shoddy writing. The Regeneration limit was thrown out a while ago and Moffat will probably put something in to confirm it down the road.
 

Phazael

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The chick in the first one didn't know there were billions of daleks surrounding gallifrey at the time presumably ;p From the pre-show clip about Arcadia, it was a total sneak attack on gallifrey, which they thought was impregnable.

Was there any indication that the moment could kill all daleks everywhere ? I got the impression that it was just blowing up gallifrey and the surroundings, which happened to contain almost all the daleks at the time.
My understanding from the (admittedly possibly non-cannon) alternative media stories is that the Dalek push against Gallifrey was entirely because the war was becoming so time locked that the Daleks basically made an all in attack involving every Dalek everywhere and everywhen. Attacking the Time Lords on their home turf demanded nothing less. It was not really as lopsided as the special shows, because you have things that have been discussed before (Davros's ship going down at the Gates of Arcadia, ect) that point out the extent to which the Daleks were getting pounded, too. The high council also pretty much does not give a shit about the average Gallifrey citizen (numerous examples of this over the years), so once the Daleks breached the defenses of Arcadia, they most likely would have pulled their remaining military resources to the capitol and let the average derps get mowed down. There are also tons of people living primitive lives in the wastelands that surround the cities, themselves, that the Daleks would likely have spent some time killing, too.

As far as the Moment is concerned, if this was a weapon that even the Time Lords were not willing to use in the face of their defeat, then I would say that it likely had that capability. According to a lot of the backstory of the series, Rassilon was quite the asshole and cranked out numerous super weapons to cement his reign. Two of these are actually shown being used in the old series. The first is the Time Looper, which puts an entire world in an endless time loop trapping the enemy race before they can ever become a threat in and endlessly trapped from the point in their timeline that the Time Lords choose, which is their principle method for dealing with threats to Gallifrey. The second is the Demat gun, which erases the target from existence entirely, as if they never were, which was used by the Doctor on invading Sontarrans and a rogue Time Lord at one point in the old series. According to background material, Rassilons snuffatron gauntlet is essentially his personal Dmat gun. These were weapons the Time Lords were actually willing to use, so if the Moment is nastier than those, I would have to imagine that it would be pretty fucking powerful to the point of too dangerous to ever be in the hands of one person. Its also possible that some of these forbidden weapons were relics left by the Guardians of Time (sort of super entities that watch over the timestream), which is true of some of the Gallifrey tech, but I doubt they will ever clarify it to that extent.

Now, as for how the Daleks were ever a match for the time lords, there is probably too major things that caused it. First, the Time Lords violated their own non interference rules and tried sending the Doctor to go snuff them at the time of their creation. He failed in this task and it essentially made this a fixed point in time, preventing any other attempts at it. Second, knowing that Time Lords were trying to snuff them out, the Daleks systematically devised their own time travel technology, possibly from stolen Time Lord tech, ultimately leading to the direct conflict that would persist from the 5th Doctor era onward. Basically, the Time Lords more or less set things in motion by trying to make the first move and in doing so made it impossible to use their normal time cornhole weaponry on the Daleks.
 

Asmadai

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It's probably considered non-canon but in one of the side adventures of the Doctor during the war (comic or book, can't remember) the Doctor was the one who actually created the Moment from modifying the De-mat Gun with The Great Key.
 

Cybsled

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Given that The Moment was self-aware, unless there was a way to hack it, you would have had to convince it to activate.

It's possible Rassilion wanted to use it and it told him to bugger off.
 

Phazael

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Well the Daleks did manage to hack the Time Lord Matrix (sort of the Gallifreyan internet that ran their entire world and contained all of their knowledge) at one point, so it is conceivable that the Moment might be hackable, but I think your (Cybersled) hypothesis is more likely, given what a massive dick Rassilon was known to be. Its also possible that the council simply did not with to give Rassilon access to the Moment (though they did eventually agree to the Ultimate Sanction) and had it sealed away. Given that the Doctor was President at one point and may have had a hand in the creation of the moment, its pretty likely he may have been the one who locked it away, as well, thus explaining how he knew how to get it.
 

Jait

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Ooooooooo. Moffat says the Doctor is out of Regenerations.

Doctor Who Boss Moffat Teases No More Regenerations For Time Lord


Steven Moffat_sl said:
The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.

So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?
Thoughts? Hard to speculate with so little information. Does another Time Lord take up the Mantle with a new TARDIS? Would explain why his grave and old TARDIS would be at Trenazlore forever.

Although based on what Jenna-Louis Coleman said...

One minute it's Matt Smith and the next Peter Capaldi is there wearing Matt Smith's clothes
 

iannis

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I think Moffat is trolling everyone. Dr. Who and you "can't just casually break [the rules]". Dr. Who -- the rules are made up and the points don't matter! Timey wimey. Fixed point. Deadlocked.

That said, they'll have to create a story to allow the show to go on. But they already have in Day of the Doctor with, "All twelve of them. NO WAIT, THIRTEEN". They just haven't told us what that story is yet.

Artistically I can completely agree with him. Go out on a high note. Leave the audience begging for more. All good things. Wrapping the Dr. Who franchise with the Tennant - Smith - (Hurt) - Capaldi (tying up loose ends) arc would be just right. They brought it back from the dead and showed us that the famous American Optimism has moved back across the Atlantic.

But the BBC isn't going to cancel Dr. Who. Moffat might move on though.
 

Jait

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I think Moffat is trolling everyone.
I agree. I think he's just planning on answering the Regeneration question.

I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if Gaiman takes over the show. Or Mark Gatiss. I'd prefer the former though.
 

geffe71_sl

shitlord
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Ooooooooo. Moffat says the Doctor is out of Regenerations.

Doctor Who Boss Moffat Teases No More Regenerations For Time Lord
Rule #1: The Doctor and Steven Moffat lie.

The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot was technically a 2nd Anniversary Special. Davison pitched the idea and Moffat greenlit and bankrolled it. They just made it look like Moffat was being an asshole and not including the other doctors. The only thing they didnt know was that 4 was in the main 50th special (The other Baker was a little pissed about that). McGann doesnt count really because he was part of a prequel.
 

Phazael

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Also, the whole 12 regenerations thing was a rule originally enforced by Rassilon to keep any Timelords from getting uber enough to challenge him. No Rassilon, no enforcement of the rule, plus its not like the Doctor followed rules closely in the first place. Total troll job.
 

Intrinsic

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The only depressing thing that irks me (and that I'm probably overlooking somehow) is this whole premise of the Doctor using the device to end the war and kill everyone. Tennant and Smith could just sit down and say, "Look you think you're making this grand sacrifice, but really the Daleks are going to keep coming back and invading the universe. You don'tactuallyaccomplish anything. Oh and there are also random Time Lords that will show up as well, so you don't really kill all them either. Does that help your decision making process?" Maybe the gravity and impact of the decision is even worse knowing that it didn't accomplish what he set out. Oh well. We were going to the local Imax to watch it in 3D tonight, but the weather here is horrible with ice and freezing rain all over the roads. We'll just pop some popcorn and re-watch it on the DVR I guess.
 

chthonic-anemos

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The only depressing thing that irks me (and that I'm probably overlooking somehow) is this whole premise of the Doctor using the device to end the war and kill everyone. Tennant and Smith could just sit down and say, "Look you think you're making this grand sacrifice, but really the Daleks are going to keep coming back and invading the universe. You don'tactuallyaccomplish anything. Oh and there are also random Time Lords that will show up as well, so you don't really kill all them either. Does that help your decision making process?" Maybe the gravity and impact of the decision is even worse knowing that it didn't accomplish what he set out. Oh well. We were going to the local Imax to watch it in 3D tonight, but the weather here is horrible with ice and freezing rain all over the roads. We'll just pop some popcorn and re-watch it on the DVR I guess.
If they didn't do something then the President tries far worse ideas. Ultimate Sanction is bigger than the moment and its sloppy leftovers. I bet Rassilon does more crazy shit when they find the planet again.
 

iannis

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Rassilon is weird. That idea vascillitates between Rassilon being a hidden benevolent dictator, a wise emperor, and a meglomaniacal ceasar with every iteration of gallifrey. So the next time we see Rassilon he's probably going to be either completely bonkers or just drunk. Just pissfaced.

Did I ever tell you how much I love you Doctor? Seriously man, you're just good.
 

geffe71_sl

shitlord
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Went to the 3D screening tonight. Was able to enjoy the nuances this time. The 3D didnt suck, it actually made the depth better and a few of the unintentional (i thought they were) effects made it enjoyable. Gained a lot of insight the second time through and am satisfied with the way they handled everything. It wasn't as confusing as it seemed to be.
 

geffe71_sl

shitlord
499
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I Present to you the poster for

The Time of The Doctor

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