Jait
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Hurt did what every all time great actor does. He makes everyone around him look better and doesn't steal scenes. He was incredible.
Doctor Who
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Qhue
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"No sir... All Thirteen" I will admit I got chills at that. I love what the 50th has done in terms of looking back but also looking forward and giving the Doctor a new mission.
I suppose we will have to change our numbering system then, because Hurt is most certainly the 9th Doctor.
I suppose we will have to change our numbering system then, because Hurt is most certainly the 9th Doctor.
It is a damn shame that the 9th regenerates right after this into Chris Eccleston because I could honestly do with a lot more "Oh for god's sake" crotchety John Hurt Doctor.
Wouldn't this mean smith is the 12th? How does that work for "The fall of the eleventh" and Trenzalore?
I'm pretty sure John Hurt is pretty much a drop-in replacement for Eccleston, because he wasn't interested in taking part. The story works pretty well with that in mind.
I still would have liked to see more of the war to see how he got to the point of blowing everything up in despair - would have made more interesting viewing than the b-plot with the shapeshifters. Without the pre-show bit with mcgann, there's really no context for such a huge decision.
Asmadai
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I was confused about one thing though, how did Gallifrey and the Time War go from being "time locked" like they said before a few times, to completely incinerated and destroyed by the Moment prior to the altering of the timeline in this episode?
Or did that all have something to do with Rassilon and them escaping the time-lock in The End of Time?
Edit: Thinking about it, I guess that's what the 11th meant by the timelines being out of sync and how they wouldn't remember it. Nevermind.
Or did that all have something to do with Rassilon and them escaping the time-lock in The End of Time?
Edit: Thinking about it, I guess that's what the 11th meant by the timelines being out of sync and how they wouldn't remember it. Nevermind.
Jait
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When the Doctor's show up just before the Moment, Tennant remarks all of this is Time Locked and they shouldn't be here. Then John Hurt mentions Bad Wolf. It's the answer to every question I have about this ep.
Tennant told the Master when he released Gallifrey on the *final day* that he was also releasing the would have been King, the Nightmare Child, the Degradations of Skaro, etc..etc... none of which was there...so Bad Wolf must have killed them all
It was fun so I'm trying not to nitpick too much. But there is a lot of questions that could have been answered. But honestly, after seeing Tom Baker make his old 4th Doctor jokes, even the play on words about Who "Nose" knows? And watching all the Doctors stare at Gallifrey in the sky, I couldn't be happier with the curtain call and where this series is heading in the next 50 years.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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my Dr Who knowledge really sucks because i didnt get all of that episode. who was the bald gallifray commander? is that the guy timothy dalton plays? do regular gallifrayans not regenerate? is The Doctor a superhero even to gallifray? if gallifray is synonymous with time lords, where are the other time lords? and what timeline does this happen in? before the 1st doctor (hartnell) or before eccelston and the reboot? and what happened with the zygons? why did smith send the PW for the vortex manipulator then wonder how she got there? the cameo by tom baker gave me goosebumps. that guy is awesome. hopefully some of you whovians can explain this stuff to me.
Jait
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Chris
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No what you are doing is nitpicking, they are two aspects of the same thing. The Interface is part of The Moment.If you're going to nitpick, it was the Interface. Not the Moment
What I am doing is saying that Bad Wolf and The Moment/The Interface are two different entities, with Bad Wolf being chosen as a familiar form for The Dcotor. Using your logic Amy Pond is The Tardis because The Tardis used her form as an interface (and this would be almost EXACTLY the same technology since both are Time Lord made).
Bald Gallifrey Commander is a Bald Gallifrey Commander, Timothy Dalton was locked up in the High Council fucking up The Master to escape from the End of Time episode.
We don't really know about regular Gallifrayans... I assume that at least a good proportion are like The Doctor so but they did a bad job showing this - maybe they had to go to the academy to get the powers and maybe all the TARDISes had been destroyed by that point.
There is only one timeline, this episode directly shows that both halves of the series pre and post cancellation are the same timeline. When it is compared to earth years we don't know.
We don't know what happened with the Zygons, I assume peace treaty.
I think Smith was surprised that Clara opened the "locked" dungeon door, not that she time travelled.
Were you high or something?
I haven't loved TV this much since... I don't know, Top Gear Vietnam? Not even that? One point of interest though. When they were freezing Gallifrey they said, "All twelve. No. All thirteen." That "all" implies a lot to me, along with the inclusion of the 13th in the act of the freezing. As if, perhaps, Capaldi is the last doctor?
No, the bald guy is a war commander, timothy dalton was the president.
Not everyone on Gallifrey is a time lord, only those able to gaze into the Time Vortex and survive - that's the one that drove the master crazy.
I don't think it's covered whether non time-lords can regenerate - I'd assume not though.
Continuity is a bit erratic with all the different writers over the years, but the time lords are immune to paradox, creating new timelines doesn't affect them.
Smith was surprised about Clara opening the door, not about her being in the same time period - it was part of the setup for the disintegrating the door joke.
Enzee
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Think you are reading a bit too much into it. From a time perspective, that commander was only aware of a certain number of regenerations. The 13th was one he had not been aware of, as it came from a future time period and that version never interacted with gallifrey at all (neither had 11 or 12 really, but upon their appearance the commander instantly understands who/what they are, probably a somewhat common occurrence among timelords). It just means any regenerations past 13 were not involved, not that he can't have any past that.
On an easter egg note, anyone notice the dalek Emperor flying away from gallifrey after the explosion? I had to rewind my dvr to realize what it was, but gave me a chuckle once I did.
Uhuh, this is how I feel about it. very much enjoyed watching it live, but the Zygon story was superfluous. They should just have made the pre-show thing part of this episode and cut out the Zygon story entirely.
Still enjoyed watching it more than anything that has been on TV for a very long time.
Chris
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Also this explains why so many goddam Daleks escaped and so few Time Lords. The Moment I guess would have really gotten rid of them all while their own crossfire would be too chaotic/random for full destruction. We are assuming that EVERY Dalek and EVERY Time Lord was there though.
Cybsled
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I liked the nerdy #4 fangirl character ;p
Anyways, good episode. As for the interface, I think there is enough ambiguity there to make one question if it really was Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf is able to do all sorts of time shit, why not integrate itself into The Moment as a form of sentience?
Anyways, good episode. As for the interface, I think there is enough ambiguity there to make one question if it really was Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf is able to do all sorts of time shit, why not integrate itself into The Moment as a form of sentience?
The Zygons provided some comedy with Tennant. The main thing was for Hurt to see his later selves creating a peaceful solution and stopping a decision similar to the one he was about to make on Gallifrey. The fact that the Zygons can shapeshift combined with everyone in the room losing their memory allowed the show to make a subtle point about seeing things from the other side's point of view when trying to resolve conflict. The episode was all about the Doctor and the decision he made at the end of the Time War, so you couldn't have a "strong" alien story as well, they just served their purpose allowing the Doctor to reflect on his past and future.
They hinted that it was the Interface that unlocked the time lock, but also had the timelines intertwining as a back up reason
It was my understanding That Time Lords over-looked Gallifrey from the Citadel and watched the universes from there, only intervening when absolutely necessary. It would not be unreasonable that gallifeyans can be normal aliens, and that they become Time Lords after looking into the vortex and surviving.
Like I said previously, this episode really doesnt change much of the new series. Gallifrey is still "dead/lost" and the doctor "killed" all the time lords, but not in the way it has been established by using the moment. The only episode the 50th contradicts a lot is End of Time where we see a war torn Gallifrey and the goings on on the last day.
Ive come to terms with how it fits within the the series, only thing i cant come to terms with is the Zygon story line. They botched that unless they filmed a scene like they did with A Good Man Goes to War that takes place after the episode that rectifies something. The only reason they included them was fan service or a possible return next season.
It was my understanding That Time Lords over-looked Gallifrey from the Citadel and watched the universes from there, only intervening when absolutely necessary. It would not be unreasonable that gallifeyans can be normal aliens, and that they become Time Lords after looking into the vortex and surviving.
Like I said previously, this episode really doesnt change much of the new series. Gallifrey is still "dead/lost" and the doctor "killed" all the time lords, but not in the way it has been established by using the moment. The only episode the 50th contradicts a lot is End of Time where we see a war torn Gallifrey and the goings on on the last day.
Ive come to terms with how it fits within the the series, only thing i cant come to terms with is the Zygon story line. They botched that unless they filmed a scene like they did with A Good Man Goes to War that takes place after the episode that rectifies something. The only reason they included them was fan service or a possible return next season.
The show is vague and contradictory about the relationship between Time Lords, Gallifreyans, and regenerating. Time Lords come from Gallifrey, but Rassillon altered their DNA (or Time Lord equivalent) to allow them to regenerate, so does that make them a separate species? In some lore they can't reproduce but instead are created on Looms, which they also use to create vast armies when needed. Can you become a Time Lord without being created that way? If so, do non-Gallifreyan Time Lords regenerate?
I don't think there are concrete answers to these questions, and somewhere in 50 years of programs, books and radio shows there will be a contradiction to most explanations of anything in the Who universe.
I don't think there are concrete answers to these questions, and somewhere in 50 years of programs, books and radio shows there will be a contradiction to most explanations of anything in the Who universe.