Doctor Who

Because The Master is the ultimate love/hate relationship for The Doctor.

It's like Batman and the Joker.

The Doctor isn't trying to beat The Master. The Doctor can beat The Master any time he pleases. The Doctor is trying to help and reform The Master. In doing so, a lot of people tend to die. But The Doctor is eternally loathe to admit that there is such a thing as irredeemable.

He can't kill The Master, because in doing so he adopts the same arrogance that he would be killing The Master for.

you guys took that too literally. Jait described Superman.

Yeah. I was. Never associated it with Superman but yep exact same thing. Or Jesus. ��

So is he technically 2 billion years old now?

nah, it was just a time puzzle, time was moving along normal, but since he was trapped in the puzzle and didnt realize it til the end, he only thought he was in there for 2 billion years. i dunno why he would trap himself in his own will and ultimately cause cause clara to die, but i guess we find that out next week.

He realized he was in a time puzzle every single time, just before he dies. He realizes he's been doing this loop for X years, which is why he punches the abzantium. He figures if he keeps doing it, every loop, he'll eventually wear down the wall.

But, since each loop created a new doctor, the doctor didn't 'age' at all. He is a few days (or however long he spends in each loop, maybe a few weeks?) older then he was when clara died, in terms of his physical age.

If you take a blueprint of someone at 1,000 years old, keep it in storage for 10 billion years, then recreate them from that blueprint, they aren't 10 billion and 1,000 years old. They are just 1,000 years old.

The only thing I'm still unclear on, is if that's his confession dial, and if so, is it the same one he's been carrying around? Did it have all those confessions in it before? If so, is the Doctor that goes back to medieval times, at beginning of season, 'older' then the Doctor who just saw Clara die?
Maybe these things are meant to be unclear and will be explained later, i.e. Gallifrey time wimey stuff, like someone sends the dial back in time to the Doctor.

enzie_sl said:

He realized he was in a time puzzle every single time, just before he dies. He realizes he's been doing this loop for X years, which is why he punches the abzantium. He figures if he keeps doing it, every loop, he'll eventually wear down the wall.

But, since each loop created a new doctor, the doctor didn't 'age' at all. He is a few days (or however long he spends in each loop, maybe a few weeks?) older then he was when clara died, in terms of his physical age.

If you take a blueprint of someone at 1,000 years old, keep it in storage for 10 billion years, then recreate them from that blueprint, they aren't 10 billion and 1,000 years old. They are just 1,000 years old.

The only thing I'm still unclear on, is if that's his confession dial, and if so, is it the same one he's been carrying around? Did it have all those confessions in it before? If so, is the Doctor that goes back to medieval times, at beginning of season, 'older' then the Doctor who just saw Clara die?
Maybe these things are meant to be unclear and will be explained later, i.e. Gallifrey time wimey stuff, like someone sends the dial back in time to the Doctor.

Click to expand...

yeah.. but by that logic he is also only 3 days old now... since the Doctor is dead and this a clone of him?

no, hes still the same doctor, same age, the puzzle was just a simulation, a game in order for him to beat the puzzle and escape. its like any video game where you die and another dude pops in and takes it's place.

Yep. I'm going with the Saved Game. He always started at point 1.

Novembitrillion Doctor still started at point 1 and at the end of his game found the wall one strike from being broken. The creepy shit is that the episode started at year 7000? So all those god damned skulls were his IMO. Meaning the "game" doesn't last long. Maybe a few days.

If he gathered so many skulls after just 7000 years, after 2 billion there shouldn't be water anymore, just skulls.

gogusrl_sl said:

If he gathered so many skulls after just 7000 years, after 2 billion there shouldn't be water anymore, just skulls.

Click to expand...

You didn't see the writing on the wall at the beginning of the episode?

"Hey nitpickers, they fucking turn to dust after 1 million years."

So obviously he was staying way ahead of the skull decay rate. Duh.

Caliane_sl said:

yeah.. but by that logic he is also only 3 days old now... since the Doctor is dead and this a clone of him?

Click to expand...

Only if you also believe any time someone uses a teleporter, they die, and the transported person is now a newborn.

gogusrl_sl said:

If he gathered so many skulls after just 7000 years, after 2 billion there shouldn't be water anymore, just skulls.

Click to expand...

that puzzle is probably running the same engine as Medal Of Honor. infinite nazis keep running from the same room get killed and the pile never goes any higher.

enzie_sl said:

...
The only thing I'm still unclear on, is if that's his confession dial, and if so, is it the same one he's been carrying around? Did it have all those confessions in it before? If so, is the Doctor that goes back to medieval times, at beginning of season, 'older' then the Doctor who just saw Clara die?
Maybe these things are meant to be unclear and will be explained later, i.e. Gallifrey time wimey stuff, like someone sends the dial back in time to the Doctor.

Click to expand...

I'm going with Missey switching dials on the Doctor back at the start of the series; torturing the Doctor for a few billion years sounds like her idea of fun. Plus, she always claimed to know where Gallifrey was, so who else could or would put a portal to it inside the dial?

She only tortured him for a few days. She just did it a few billion times.

The confession dial is sort of interesting, and the line that, "That's why we prefer to die among our own. They know not to bury us too soon." You add to that Missy saying, at the beginning of the season, that Time Lords only use Confession Dials when they anticipate your own death and there's a conclusion there. Maybe those Confession Dials serve a practical purpose for Time Lords, even more practical if they are away from Gallifrey. They act as a transport mechanism so that the Time Lord can preserve himself (his data in the transporter) in order to die among his own. Like a Tardis-Coffin. At any point the Doctor could have lost... he could have ended it and not reset and not escaped. So they also provide a self purifying mechanism for the dying Time Lord -- that he can die at peace.

That's what an episode of Dr. Who is supposed to be. I only had a problem with the very last little bit of it, otherwise it was just about perfect. It's just something that they've been doing this entire season, promoting such a self-aware mythos of the show. "But I am THE DOCTOR"... "The Hybrid IS ME"... it's more egocentric and fourth wall breaking than it should be. It's a little over the top fan service that now The Doctor has to have a superhero moment in every episode. I do hope they start to back off that. You can't do it EVERY episode. Once a season is about the most you can get away with.

There was one scene in there where Capaldi looked directly into the camera. And it was subtle and quite funny. He was saying something while he was running down the hall and then he winked at the viewer. That's the sort of fourth wall breaking that should be going on.

Running Dog_sl said:

I'm going with Missey switching dials on the Doctor back at the start of the series; torturing the Doctor for a few billion years sounds like her idea of fun. Plus, she always claimed to know where Gallifrey was, so who else could or would put a portal to it inside the dial?

Click to expand...

Yea, there's not enough info for me to make a concrete guess, but some kind of Gallifrey/Time Lord explanation is probably where it'll fall under. Maybe Missy, maybe some other Time Lord(s), or the Doctor himself. Some kind of time travel will be involved I'm sure.

While it would be well within character for Missy to fuck with him like that. Its not for her to give a shit about "the hybrid", and try to get that answer from him.

not sure. Confessional is deepest secrets only after death according to Missy. Doctor INSIDE insists there are secrets he'll never tell, apparently including even in his Confessional. Then he shouts into it knowing "they" are listening, he is the hybrid. so yeah? probably not missy, and didnt do it to himself.

The thing that makes me think Missy/Master has something to do with it...

She noticed when the Doctor lost Clara he fucking went nuts. She also noted his reaction when she stuck Clara inside a Dalek. At the end of the ep she meets a group of Daleks and says she has an idea...

Sounds like it's going to be her. But I also agree it's out of character. The Master is at his best when he's the Doctor's genius playmate. That brother or sister who used to put thumbtacks on your chair, and if you sat on them it was your own damn fault for not out-thinking them. There's really no hate there. Whoever did this to the Doctor hates him. Or should.

It could be one of those "If you're going to go back to Gallifrey then you have to confront your demons first" kind of things. A little bit of malicious tough love. The Master seems to want to either rule or destroy Gallifrey usually. One or the other, I guess maybe both at the same time.

It might not be missy at all. I just hope it is, because that actress is great and I wanna see more FemMaster.