They better not give him a name. I feel like they are coping out on coming up with new scripts and just spoilering the shit out of things like how big the TARDIS is, etc. That is ruining some of the mystique of the show for me. Next thing you know they'll be back hanging out on GallifreySeason finale "poster"
Presumed River would be back this season but at least they waited until the last one and didn't ram her down our throats again. The byplay between her and Smugface might be interesting, especially as I don't think he's even mentioned her to Smugface on camera yet.
Doctor Who
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Asmadai
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Am I the only one who thinks the Doctor broke several key rules about time travel in this latest episode? I mean, the charred Clara's walking around was a tad confusing, and the fact that he knew they were charred Clara's. He tried to save her multiple times and she kept dying in the Eye of Harmony? He crossed over into his OWN past timeline, interacted with himself, and rewrote time?
The charred Clara thing still has my mind addled. How is it there were multiples of them? Were they simply echo's in time like the mirages of Clara/The Doctor they saw when walking through the halls of the Tardis? And if they were simply an echo, how were they dangerous/deadly?
Jait, clarify this mess! I know you know your shit.
The charred Clara thing still has my mind addled. How is it there were multiples of them? Were they simply echo's in time like the mirages of Clara/The Doctor they saw when walking through the halls of the Tardis? And if they were simply an echo, how were they dangerous/deadly?
Jait, clarify this mess! I know you know your shit.
Jait
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Yeah, right.
I don't know what they're doing anymore. I'm sure this is all a fancy convoluted series to lead into the mindfuck that will be the 50th anniversary special. But I truly don't get it. And my least favorite plot trick in ANY show is telling someone a secret or reveal and then travelling back in time like it never happened: Which this fucking episode did at the end. At least it wasn't a dream with Bob Newhart. I thought the grenade thing was just a case of linear time travel. Doctor tossed in the grenade, this led to his death and the creation of the first round of zombies. The next doctor with the added experiences the last timeline created (zombies, grenade) would toss in the grenade AND have the courage to go through the crack in time while closing the crack giving him a few seconds to give himself a message wrapping everything up in a neat bow. If I had to play Devil's Advocate, the TARDIS is a pocket Universe all it's own so none of the rules apply.
Some things I did notice.....
The History of the Time War. This plays into my theory a few pages back with the Great Intelligence and Vampires. Both were enemies in the first great time war. Note that the book wasn't about the LAST great Time War, just the Time War. Might mean nothing, might mean something...who knows?
The Eye of Harmony. Straight out of the old series. Omega created these during the Dark Days of Gallifrey. This discovery was the epoch that turned them into the Time Lords we all know and love. Before that they were evil and barbaric.
Cracks in Time. Have no doubt, this was the same thing as the first Matt Smith season. It appears the TARDIS blowing up does really bad shit to the Universe. Makes me wonder how the Last Great Time War didn't destroy everything, but oh well.
edit:
Clara
I'm wondering if Clara isn't exactly what she should be...the daughter of the Dalek Spy in "Asylum". Remember the girl in the prison camp the Doctor was asked to save? They also established there is no way to detect one of the Dalek skinjobs until the switch is flipped. Even they don't know they're Daleks. I wonder if Clara getting to see the inner workings of a TARDIS and the Eye of Harmony isn't all a part of the Daleks plan. It would answer my #1 question in all of Doctor Who.....How the fuck did the Daleks become Time Lords? Daleks fighting Time War on the same level as the Time Lords? Hard to imagine unless they had inside info....so she might actually be the ENTIRE reason for the Last Great Time War.
The charred Clara thing confused me at first, but then I realized that the charred creatures were different at different parts of the story. Initially, there was just the one charred "Clara" chasing Clara around the Tardis, she eventually gets away from it after it finds her in the library. After this, one of the salvage crew who is dismantling the control panel descends below the control room, and "charred Clara" attacks him. There are now two charred creatures, "Charred Clara" and "Charred Salvage Guy" (and, actually, there are more charred creatures due to the time fractures within the Tardis).
Finally, when they are on the bridge near the captured star; you get a glimpse of the "Conjoined Charred Salvage Guys" (they are looking in from the door across the bridge). You then see the two remaining salvage guys turn into the conjoined charred version on the bridge as the Doctor and Clara escape this area.
So basically... everyone on board the Tardis (minus the Doctor probably) was potentially a charred creature running around at one point or another, not just Clara.
Jait
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Yeah. I assume there is a zombie Doctor too. Unless the Doctor destroyed himself each and every time in the time crack and that couldn't be possible since we didn't see him at the start of the ep.
I don't get why they are hostile though. I must have missed why. Just easier to call them zombies because they are mindless monsters saying "argh!" and trying to eat brains or whatever. Felt like a really lazy idea.
Asmadai
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Yeah amongst the voices I heard the 3rd Doctor, 4th (I think), some of the older companions who's names slip my mind, and Amy/Clara speaking at one point.i thought it was a fun episode, and thanks Jait for enlightening us noobs.were those voices the one scrapper dude heard under the control panel the voices of past doctor's and companions?
And thanks Jait for trying to clarify that. I guess i'm forgetting how he did a similar thing back in the end of series 5, with the Big Bang/Pandorica crap (whispering to himself, etc). I just seemed to remember one of the incarnations of the Doctor, either Tennant or Smith, at one point say how crossing over into their own time-line was a big, big, big no no. Back in the first episode with Rose's father, I really liked the whole "reaper" enemy that would show up to fix time in the event of a paradox, but they seem to have forgotten all about those things now with Smith; with all the messing with timelines the 11th has done you'd have think they would have shown up to own his ass by now, shrug.
Chukzombi
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Thanks Asmadai. i thought those voices sounded familiar. the first season of the reboot, eccelstone and piper go back in time and she saves her father from getting hit with a volkswagen and it tears a big fucking hole in reality and creatures appear and it only ends with her dad standing in front of the Volkswagen again and his death returns things back to normal. is that the episode you were referring to?
Jait
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It wasn't a bad episode. I'm being a bit hard on it.
The "Web of Time" is complicated. The way I understand it is that the Time Lords know everything that ever could or would happen. The Web is an instance of the Universe where Time Lords exist as they are/were from the beginning until the end of time. As long as certain "fixed" points aren't messed with, the Web of Time stays static no matter how much change occurs to the rest of time. The Time Lords even segmented their society into "Eras" to keep from Pearl Harbor like attacks. So that even if someone like the Daleks whose rise was never predicted in the Web of Time (due to the Doctor's personal Time War upon them during Tom Baker's era) could go and wipe out Gallifrey and everyone on it a future or past "era" would be alerted and simply avert the attack, or cause the offenders to cease to exist (see: Genesis of the Daleks). This made the Time Lords supreme in the Universe. No one can possibly win against them. So I never really understood how the Daleks brought them down.
With that said, you can imagine why the Time Lords had one rule above all others: Do not interfere. The Doctor broke that rule and now the Time Lords are dead and the Web of Time, the Matrix, even Gallifrey itself are all gone, so anything is game. As for the Reapers, they came into existence much like Stephen King's "Langoliers". They were what I mentioned earlier....as long as no major fixed point is changed the Universe can largely ignore it and go on as usual. Something Rose did in that episode caused the TARDIS to turn into an ordinary wooden box. Something she did caused either the Time Lords to never exist, or that TARDIS to never be created. I could be giving the writing too much credit, but my theory has always been that the Reapers were there to eat the "Event". Whether they fixed the event or they were eaten the same result would have occurred. It was something the Time Lords would have fixed with a snap of their finger and no one would be the wiser. But since they were gone the Universes natural protection kicked in.
edit: When the Time Lords were around the Doctor did follow these rules. He could but would NOT cross his own timeline. He even let a child companion named Adric he cared a great deal for stay dead because of that rule and it haunted him for a LONG time.
The Doctor/Time Lords can do anything. It's what makes them Time Lords rather than Time Travellers. They can cross their own timelines, change fixed events, create paradox, even interact with past and future versions of themselves. He was giddy about meeting himself in The Next Doctor, and in all the "specials" there were multiple Doctor's working together. He even fought a future version of himself (twice imo with the Dream Lord) with the Valeyard.
The "Web of Time" is complicated. The way I understand it is that the Time Lords know everything that ever could or would happen. The Web is an instance of the Universe where Time Lords exist as they are/were from the beginning until the end of time. As long as certain "fixed" points aren't messed with, the Web of Time stays static no matter how much change occurs to the rest of time. The Time Lords even segmented their society into "Eras" to keep from Pearl Harbor like attacks. So that even if someone like the Daleks whose rise was never predicted in the Web of Time (due to the Doctor's personal Time War upon them during Tom Baker's era) could go and wipe out Gallifrey and everyone on it a future or past "era" would be alerted and simply avert the attack, or cause the offenders to cease to exist (see: Genesis of the Daleks). This made the Time Lords supreme in the Universe. No one can possibly win against them. So I never really understood how the Daleks brought them down.
With that said, you can imagine why the Time Lords had one rule above all others: Do not interfere. The Doctor broke that rule and now the Time Lords are dead and the Web of Time, the Matrix, even Gallifrey itself are all gone, so anything is game. As for the Reapers, they came into existence much like Stephen King's "Langoliers". They were what I mentioned earlier....as long as no major fixed point is changed the Universe can largely ignore it and go on as usual. Something Rose did in that episode caused the TARDIS to turn into an ordinary wooden box. Something she did caused either the Time Lords to never exist, or that TARDIS to never be created. I could be giving the writing too much credit, but my theory has always been that the Reapers were there to eat the "Event". Whether they fixed the event or they were eaten the same result would have occurred. It was something the Time Lords would have fixed with a snap of their finger and no one would be the wiser. But since they were gone the Universes natural protection kicked in.
edit: When the Time Lords were around the Doctor did follow these rules. He could but would NOT cross his own timeline. He even let a child companion named Adric he cared a great deal for stay dead because of that rule and it haunted him for a LONG time.
Asmadai
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Yeah, I was thinking aboutthe Laws of Timebut I guess given that the Time War is over/locked and the Doctor is the sole survivor they truly don't apply to him anymore, hell I think he even outright said it in The Big Bang episode.
You're right though, it was still a good episode - I just hope they don't overuse the whole "lets go back in time and change something so this plot never happened" trick anymore than they need to.
You're right though, it was still a good episode - I just hope they don't overuse the whole "lets go back in time and change something so this plot never happened" trick anymore than they need to.
Yeah, he realised that as the sole survivor of the time lords, he didn't really have to give a fuck about their rules anymore.
Cybsled
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Well he did try to take that viewpoint in Waters of Mars in terms of trying to alter a fixed point in time, but the fixed point happened anyways (even if the specific events were different). It says something that even the Daleks were afraid of fucking with fixed points in time.
In anycase, I'll just chalk it up to Tardis time-messing doesn't count.
In anycase, I'll just chalk it up to Tardis time-messing doesn't count.
Caliane
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very possible.
but that is super depressing, and the Doctor already has questioned if she is a spy, or a trick/trap. it would be some odd writing to have him ask that, have her around, get to know her, and then. ooops. she really was a trap the entire time.
Qhue
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I have to agree that all of this is leading up to some big mind fuck, and it has to be a particularly big one because we are already accustomed to them with Rose and the Doctor Donna etc.
I have a suspicion that the 50th Anniversary special is going to feature three doctors: 10, 11, and 12. They will have locked down an actor for the 12th doctor and feature him in the anniversary but then not actually take over the part from 11 for another year.
I have a suspicion that the 50th Anniversary special is going to feature three doctors: 10, 11, and 12. They will have locked down an actor for the 12th doctor and feature him in the anniversary but then not actually take over the part from 11 for another year.
I think that the reason The Doctor could go back into his own timeline is because he is doing it through a crack in time. If he dies, no problem as long as he gets the message to the earlier doctor, thats why he didnt want to screw with it back in Season 5, he would have been erased from time possibly.
I heard the voices and they were from classic episodes. i would have to rewatch that section to figure out who and what episodes
Dead Clara's: there were 2 correct? or 3? One could be Dalek Clara, and the other is Governess Clara (and a Tardis Clara). The Doctor dead would not exist because if the doctor dies, the tardis reacts. I could have sworn that The Doctor mentions that memories and time were bleeding out. could be his memories of those Claras in the bowels of the tardis. The episode was very vague and confusing if you try to put real world logic to use. I know there has been a big debate on here that you should just crack it up to Timey Whimey for shit that makes no sense
I heard the voices and they were from classic episodes. i would have to rewatch that section to figure out who and what episodes
Dead Clara's: there were 2 correct? or 3? One could be Dalek Clara, and the other is Governess Clara (and a Tardis Clara). The Doctor dead would not exist because if the doctor dies, the tardis reacts. I could have sworn that The Doctor mentions that memories and time were bleeding out. could be his memories of those Claras in the bowels of the tardis. The episode was very vague and confusing if you try to put real world logic to use. I know there has been a big debate on here that you should just crack it up to Timey Whimey for shit that makes no sense
The charred guy with his hand on his face was the Doctor. The doctor comes to this realization in the core room when he touches his face the exact same way. After that he tells the other 2 dudes not to touch and also avoids his own face to try to avoid time taking back over...
