DOTA 2

I think even new players should try playing enchantress or chen to learn how to micro creeps and gank properly, since they don't gain that much by just ricing in the jungle. You won't be Puppey, but it's nice change of pace and especially enchantress can just throw away creep after 20-30 minutes, build Agh and go full carry.

so im experiencing the weirdest problem, when doom casts scorch earth, and I try to use voice chat, my game lags immensely, I have a new rig running a gtx 780 I don't think I should lag.

I don't think ive ever noticed this issue, until after this patch earlier, kinda cant play against a doom literally.

My game just patched, the size was almost a gig, wonder what files got added. Patcher seems confused, just repeatedly downloading a file it doesn't complete.

Edit:

- Ranked matchmaking rating changes are no longer dependent on match length.
- Fixed hitboxes for Evergreen Stalker treants.
- Model and animation fixes to Invoker's Forged Spirit and Iceforged Spirit.
- Model and animation fixes to Osky Ottragon International Courier.

WORKSHOP
- Added Wraith King to the workshop.
- Added a checkbox for the Spring 2014 event on the publish page.
- Legion Commander's budget now displays on the workshop.
- Updated budgets for Ember Spirit, Storm Spirit and Dazzle.
- Added Stone Summons slot and budget for Earth Spirit.
- Updated body texture for Pudge.
- Updated workshop files, including separated fbx and smd, for Lone Druid, Earth Spirit, Faceless Void, Nature's Prophet/Treants, Invoker/Forge Spirits and Riki.
- Alpha test enabled for Nature's Prophet Treants.
- New courier animation requirement - flying couriers must be sunk into the ground after a death crash. Valve is applying this fix where needed to couriers that have already been accepted.Dota 2 Workshop - Couriers

UI
- Fixed Dota not taking focus correctly on startup.

Turn off avast or add an exception for steam folders, it kept aborting my update because of vtex.exe.

Some newb questions, still working on tutorials and some bot matches. Does Dota2 have the overall player levelling system/talents that LoL has? What does the battle points score do?

Brando_sl said:

There's no in between with Ench, either you just tear shit up after getting bloodstone and aghs or you're a fucking waste of space.

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Mek + Pipe carrier that the enemy carry doesn't want to touch ? stealing any summoned minions in the age of necrobooks ? Bloodstone is shit, if you have mana problems, you want orchid or sheep, if you are getting bursted by magic damage, you want bkb anyway. Impetus is still pure damage, so any carry that doesn't stick hp too much needs to be worried, good example is luna or PA.

Gecko_sl said:

Ok, after giving up on LOL after a week of absolutely sucking ass, a friend has talked me into playing some DOTA 2.

Is there a good 2 min rundown on how not to completely suck ass on this? I've done the tutorial, but I'm MOBA challenged.

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Thank you for proving my point.

Shouldn't you be busy trying to get your D1rank back?

Go back to the LoL thread.

LOL 3 SEC COOLDOWN, NEGLIGIBLE MANA COST SKILL SHOTS ARE TOUGH!!!!!!!!!

I'm working on it.

Seriously tho, someone should tell Gecko that there is no such thing as a 2 minute run when it comes to moba's, especially dota 2 which is considerably less newbie friendly than league. However, the best advice I can give regardless of what champ you choose to pick is to simply play the game very cautiously(some champs should be played more aggressively but as a newbie play passive and cautious as fuck, no matter what until you learn the capabilities of each champ more and more).. Early on in the game is all about playing very passively and getting as many last hits as possible. You shouldn't just stand there auto attacking creeps hoping that you happen to get the last hit. I see way to many new players doing this and it's basically the worst thing you can do.

You shouldn't even be attacking the creeps at all unless it's the last hit as this will ensure that your lane doesn't get pushed so far into the enemy territory and keeps you closer to your tower. When you're not last hitting you should be attacking the enemy hero's if it's possible(especially if you're a ranged champ) or watching the mini map for potential ganks. A lot of the game revolves around simply leveling up and acquiring gold. Some champs don't rely quite as heavily on gold as others but everyone benefits pretty significantly from it. As the game goes on and you become more powerful from levels and items you should become progressively more aggressive but only when it's smart to do so.

That's really the best I can do for a 2 minute sum up of what to do. Play passive, farm like a mad man and get as many last hits as possible. In virtually every game, last hits will be the majority of your income and early on its essentially the only source of income. Last hitting is basically the easiest thing you can learn to do that will have the most dramatic effect on your champions strength.

Julian the Apostate_sl said:

LOL 3 SEC COOLDOWN, NEGLIGIBLE MANA COST SKILL SHOTS ARE TOUGH!!!!!!!!!

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I don't think you quite grasp the fact that the opponents can dodge your skill shots which is where a good deal of the skill comes in. I guarantee if you played me, you'd miss at least 90% if not 100% of all your skill shots against me so ya it IS tough.

The only time the mana costs are negligible is with a blue buff or insane mana regen items. Otherwise it can become a pretty big issue, especially if your opponents are dodging said skill shots. If you waste all your mana trying to land difficult skill shots then you'll leave yourself unable to use other abilities should you get initiated on. You can't just throw out random skill shots for no reason and very few have a 3 second cd except champs designed around skill shots.

Like I've said, I like dota 2 and I really don't understand why dota 2 fans legit hate league. They are both very good games and people should play both games, not just pick one and hate on the other. I just feel like from a competitive stand point league is the superior game due to the mechanical nature and requirements that landing skill shots and dodging them add to the game. There's also just way to many random elements in dota 2 that add unnecessary amounts of luck into the game. Every single luck element of league has been removed except for critical strikes which I still honestly think should be removed from league and replaced with a system that does not include luck.

The runes in the dota 2 rivers are a good example of bad design. The runes that spawn are random and being lucky and getting something like say double damage is pretty ridiculous. I mean, double damage? That's just a ridiculously insane advantage and all because of luck. Then there's a ton of skills which have like 20% evasion or a % chance to miss or items like skull basher that give your auto attacks a CHANCE to stun the target. Not to mention a stun in dota can be a death sentence so you could easily get lucky and land a stun 2 or even 3 attacks in a row and get a kill that you otherwise would not have simply because you were lucky enough. There's really almost to many examples of this in dota to even list and almost all of them could be reworked in a way that would add more skill and remove the luck factor. For instance skull basher should stun a target guaranteed upon landing say 3 auto's(4 for ranged) within a certain time on a specific target. Bam, luck factor completely removed, skill factor increased.

So ya, I'm a fan of dota but I think it could do a better job of balancing things.

luck = makes the game interesting and refreshing and makes you focus a lot more on adapting rather than just planning, favouring quick reaction skills.

guaranteed = favours unbalanced chain of events that will happen 100% of the time, reducing variety and funfactor.

If youre mad about runes, tell your lane supports to do a better job at roaming.

You also know nothing about last hits in dota 2 by saying ppl shouldnt be hitting creeps ever in lane. You win mid by auto attacking creeps at specific times to gain both denies and lasthits since they would often coincide otherwise. This is also true when you pull the lane and you expect a double creep wave, you are better off pushing it ASAP so the double wave hits the tower quickly in some of those cases. You can also control the lane by pulling aggro to position the lane where you want not only on the lane but in relation to the ranged creep vs melee creep.

Tons of heroes have skill shots, not all of them have the same power, ramp up time, effect. So you are wrong once again (surprise...)

Also no one said shit about league here before you came on your shitty horse to try trolling, only reason I answered isnt to adress you, but for the poor newbies that would come read this and think any of what you say is good information, it's not.

luck = makes the game interesting and refreshing and makes you focus a lot more on adapting rather than just planning, favouring quick reaction skills.

guaranteed = favours unbalanced chain of events that will happen 100% of the time, reducing variety and funfactor.

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Sorry but this logic doesn't make sense. There is no luck involved in chess and it's still interesting and refreshing and full of endless different possibilities. There is no luck in baseball, soccer, basketball etc and yet those games are all interesting and refreshing and all about quick reaction skills. Things in dota 2 are literally the equivalent of rolling a dice when one of your pieces attacks in chess and having the outcome be determined by that dice roll and not the actual strategy and planning that went into the attack in the first place. It's like hitting a baseball and then rolling a dice to determine if it was a single, a double, triple or home run lol. There's absolutely no good reasoning behind it. Adding unnecessary elements of luck literally lessens the amount of skill in the game and for no reason at all.

You also know nothing about last hits in dota 2 by saying ppl shouldnt be hitting creeps ever in lane. You win mid by auto attacking creeps at specific times to gain both denies and lasthits since they would often coincide otherwise. This is also true when you pull the lane and you expect a double creep wave, you are better off pushing it ASAP so the double wave hits the tower quickly in some of those cases. You can also control the lane by pulling aggro to position the lane where you want not only on the lane but in relation to the ranged creep vs melee creep.

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I guess it went over your head that I was giving general advice to absolute newbs whereas you're trying to explain more advanced laning techniques to people who won't understand it.

Tons of heroes have skill shots, not all of them have the same power, ramp up time, effect. So you are wrong once again (surprise...)

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Sorry but it's you that's wrong. There are VERY few skill shots in the game.

Also no one said shit about league here before you came on your shitty horse to try trolling, only reason I answered isnt to adress you, but for the poor newbies that would come read this and think any of what you say is good information, it's not.

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I never trolled at all but ok dude. As for my info, it is very good info and every newbie should follow it. I'm one of the best league players in the world so I'm pretty sure I have a much better understanding of the game than you do.

nite1_sl said:

Im finding more and more on your "nuker" supports that this is so key to being able to win games. The other thing to consider is grabbing a fast mek on this type of hero means a better chance of winning those early team fights which will in turn set up your carries to snowball. By the time you get aghs/bloodstone up you've already missed the peak power window of most of these heroes.

This actually ties into something else I'm beginning to understand better. If your playing a support hero the early game is yours to win or lose. When I first started I always thought as long as im keeping wards up and babysitting a carry that was all I needed to do.now im realizing supports are really strong early game and on top of those 2 things you should be trying to make space for your farm dependant heroes. Especially if you get a few early kills in lane your carry should be good and im wasting myself staying in that lane. Im still struggling to learn the timing on all that but supports definitely have become more fun to play

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The worst is when despite the space you create you see you carry missing every last hit.

More than that though you should be ganking mid. Most mid heroes are mid game snow ballers and can really benefit off a successful gank.

I'll post more when I get home. On my phone right now and don't feel like typing a huge paragraph about supports but I have much more to say.

Support is so much more fun and dynamic in this game compared to league.

nite1_sl said:

Im finding more and more on your "nuker" supports that this is so key to being able to win games. The other thing to consider is grabbing a fast mek on this type of hero means a better chance of winning those early team fights which will in turn set up your carries to snowball. By the time you get aghs/bloodstone up you've already missed the peak power window of most of these heroes.

This actually ties into something else I'm beginning to understand better. If your playing a support hero the early game is yours to win or lose. When I first started I always thought as long as im keeping wards up and babysitting a carry that was all I needed to do.now im realizing supports are really strong early game and on top of those 2 things you should be trying to make space for your farm dependant heroes. Especially if you get a few early kills in lane your carry should be good and im wasting myself staying in that lane. Im still struggling to learn the timing on all that but supports definitely have become more fun to play

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Just the names of roles have a big impact on how people play. Back when I started playing in WC3, the meta-game at the pub level was considerably less developed than it is now, so we just defined heroes as "early game" and "late game." Of course, that led to a lot of "I can't waste my money on wards/courier because I need to take full advantage of my kill power while I have it."

The current scheme of delineating carry/support is good in that it encourages actual support play more, but it also has the effect of pigeonholing people into passivity. Now it's "wards are up and my carry is safely farming, so I'll just sit here and leech exp while I wait for something to threaten him." But like you say, that ends up wasting some seriously potent kill power on a lot of the supports.

Lumi, play dota more than you have before you make such sweeping statements about its gameplay, you think you have deciphered all the difference and understand the game at a high level and all that but you do not and this is the first statement of my post that you won't believe. The dota map is very different than the league map, the dota item shop(s) are very different than league. Teleport scrolls are very different than league. Hero design and skill sets found on dota heroes are very different than what is found in league.

Both games are hard, in general there are less kills in league games than dota games, League has more isolated laning stage than dota because the mobility of heroes in league is far less than the mobility of heroes in dota. The item shop in league is primarily full of items that are stat boosting attack or defense and your primary skills are scaled to be stronger off those stats. Skills in dota are not scaled off the notion of AP/AD. The item shop in dota has offensive and defensive items, but a great many of them involve giving you a new ability in addition to whatever stats they add, it is not uncommon to have 2-4 items in your inventory which have on use effects - and stronger than any on use found in league. Skill design in dota contains a great deal more disables. Movement skills, and items are a staple of dota, Blink Dagger, Force Staff, Boots of Travel. League has no equivalent to these items. Late game dota involves both buybacks, and barracks that do not respawn - unlike inhibitors. There are more methods of lane control in dota because of the way heroes, neutrals, and creeps interact. Warding in Dota and league are quite different, and league has only trended to more dota like design. Stealth is much more intelligently designed into dota as a hero ability.

There is more, I don't know why I typed this. Ending your post with, I'm one of the best in the world (at a different game) is quite the appeal. When the dota players want your advice how to play their game we'll ask. When you have enough experience with our game to represent it accurately across all phases of the game maybe we'll listen. If you want to have an honest discussion about the design differences of the games and how that plays out in both games I'll participate, but right now you are as ignorant of dota as you were in league when you were in bronze, because you started there like all the rest of us.

To any league players reading this thread, if you like support as a role, try dota 2. Dota supporting is about 3000% more fun, more influential, and more enjoyable than leagues version.

Can't wait for lumi replies. This is gonna go sideways.

Thanks for the info. I guess I was playing this, and probably LOL, completely wrong as I was actually killing Creeps and primarily playing melee and trying to fight nonstop initially.

So, for the first X minutes I should be farming and focusing on 'last hits' and being cautious? I was being cautious but also pushing and trying to kill creeps. Essentially this is more of a gear up game then anything actually tactical? That's a bit disappointing.

Do melee suck as bad as they seem based on my initial impressions? I was using the omniknight and he just seemed... awful.