DOTA 2
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Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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The only reason those comebacks happened is because undisciplined morons diving the base and feeding kills.
The system was like a fat chick trying to get in shape, it has good intentions and only the most dedicated of players would've stuck it out and learned to play with the new system. The game would've been better with it if people could stick with it but the majority just bitched and moaned that it was too hard and gave up. Back to your Big Macs you fat fucks.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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While that might be true for competitive games, pubs were a clusterfuck of who gets to have the least number of braindead moments. There were a few teamfights where I walked out with 3k gold and +3 levels as a support. Like, what do you even do with that amount of money ? Right now the system is pretty decent, the average games are maybe even a bit slower because people are too afraid of dying and t1 towers aren't worth much.
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Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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6.82b or 6.82 ? 6.81 was mostly two push trains running against each other and the team that had a guy who was determined to defend usually lost horribly. Usual disclaimer, anything can happen in pubs, but people eventually just copy what pros are doing and what is the easiest.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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I think that potential is still there, but they keep tweaking it. Now you need like 2-3 teamfights to turn it around and the bonus caps at like 30k gold IIRC
Unrelated: Thank god they called 6.82b, because otherwise it could get pretty messy with the hotfixes to core gameplay mechanics.
Unrelated: Thank god they called 6.82b, because otherwise it could get pretty messy with the hotfixes to core gameplay mechanics.
Louis
Trakanon Raider
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This right here. We were handedly winning a game last night and I had the old patch mindset of diving a t2 to kill their sniper. Ended up making a terribad play and feeding him a considerable amount of gold. He then went on to buy his next item and started raping our supports face every fight and we ended up losing after a while. I had a whole bunch of close and fun games over the weekend. I don't know if it was the new bounty changes that made it that way or just coincidence. I didn't really even have time to figure out if I liked the changes before the nerfs.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Yeah it got nerfed back to where it was basically. If you won 2-3 team fights before you're more than likely going to be coming back. Where as in 6.82 if you got a 5 man team wipe and your carry survived through it you were in a good position to make a come back. Team wipes should be catastrophic.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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I think one of the reasons for this change was to eliminate the dumb period between where a push strat fails and the other team can come back, usually with some crazy carry like Naga. It took like 20 minutes where you knew the game was over unless one side fucks up horribly before they got farmed up enough to take the other base. The tipping point was usually a bloody teamfight so it kickstarts the comeback.
I like that now I'm not the only one playing with "It's not over until the ancient dies" and you can silence the quitters easily.
Del
Vyemm Raider
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You're an idiot. That's not at all how the comebacks happened. You could literally have your carry get smoke ganked twice in a game and end up going from a 10k+ gold/xp lead to ending up being the ones at a disadvantage. This type of shit was tailor made to favor the team with the stronger late game heroes. It made it so every single factor that took place in the first 15 minutes of the game could be rendered absolutely meaningless because of a single unlucky event happening afterward.
Yes because being shoehorned into playing ultra conservative is so much fun! And it'd be just soooo exciting to watch the Chinese 4 protect 1 50 minute farm fests make a come back!
Asshat Brando
Potato del Grande
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I think the games have been more fun in that you're never out of it, you're still getting the higher XP gains just not the huge gold swings. A game I played this morning we lost every lane as we had a peruvian invoker that got a 15 min midas and was basically worthless plus a techie that was worthless. We still almost pulled it off but our Riki went hunting for Lina after she had jumped me (NP) without a TP, even though I bought back when the other team pushed with me dead the Riki never made it back into the base until they had wiped us again.
The only issue is the games are longer which I think is a problem with DOTA to a certain extent, if you know you only have 30-45 mins now you just can't start a game as more than likely you're going to go way past the amount of time you think you have.
The only issue is the games are longer which I think is a problem with DOTA to a certain extent, if you know you only have 30-45 mins now you just can't start a game as more than likely you're going to go way past the amount of time you think you have.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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So... uh, Don't go alone and get smoke ganked when you're so far ahead? Not really rocket surgery buddy. You're crushing the other team to the point where two deaths are going to cause 5k swings each death. MAYBE ITS TIME TO GROUP UP? The game was team oriented rather than "ultra conservative", which CLEARLY detracted from strategies like 4 protect 1 because if the 1 died it caused massive swings.
You need to calm down there chief.
This is the argument loads of people made, but the fact was it didn't punish reckless behavoir, it punished ANY kind of risky play from the winning team. You know what risky play was punished the most? Pushing highground as 5, with aegis, while miles ahead. Because if even 1 person on your team dies, every person on the enemy team in that fight that didn't die before that person did would get drowned in enough gold to immediately buy back after they did inevitably die, rejoin the fight while it was still underway, and potentially get just one more kill that would have them sitting on almost an entirely new item, with a 5-10k+ gold swing.
It wasn't about giving the losing team a chance to come back. It was about forcing the winning team to play so over-the-top safe that games dragged out to 50-60 minutes when they could've been ended at 20m. It made for really boring risk-averse gameplay. It wasn't about the underdogs making a big play (like it used to be in comebacks). It wasn't about "undisciplined morons diving the base". It was just about taking a reasonable teamfight to end the game being so risky that it was avoided until the winning team was so far ahead that they could either split push the base down with no deaths, or take a 5v5 with guaranteed no deaths. Anyone who thinks that superficially adding 20-30 minutes to the game and putting the winning team in such a tedious position is good for dota, should wait for APEM to come out instead of calling real dota players "unable to adapt".
Louis
Trakanon Raider
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I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying here. I think the initial formula was way over the top, but I still liked the general premise of the idea of what he was going for. Anyways I been on a losing streak since Saturday and it's making my eyes rain.
