Elden Ring - From Software + George RR Martin

Pyros · Jun 5, 2022

Rajaah said:
Yeah, my PS5 NG+ run is also boring AF and I keep wanting to get back to the PS4 Samurai run instead just to have things be a challenge again / feel like there's a reason to explore.

All I have left are like two trophies and I'll get those pretty soon and finish off NG+. Then it's onward to platinuming the PS4 version with bleed and frost Uchis.

All of this ER has made me want to replay Demon's Souls Remastered so I think I'll do that after all this. Already platinumed it (on both PS3 and PS5) but whatever, I think I'll be able to appreciate it even more now.

Yeah NG+ is just very poorly balanced I think, even the late areas looked about as hard as normal more or less, maybe a bit harder but since you get so many runes just fucking around you're like lvl 200 so it's easy to not even care. But pretty much all the early game isn't boosted enough so everything dies way too fast.

The dagger/no summon/no zone skip run is fun though, have to actually learn boss patterns and stuff, especially with daggers being stuff you can't really bruteforce with. Bosses that can't be statused are a big pita though, at this point I'm mostly planning on working around gargoyle duo cause I don't really see a good way to beat these with this build, daggers do shit dmg, it's really annoying to even hit the gargoyles in the first place(short reach and they keep moving back and forth with their attacks) and once you have 2 at the same time it's going to be stupid shit. 1vs1 it's not that bad I killed a couple but yeah I'm probably just gonna jump down the depths from the leyndell sewers instead, although this has Mhog with status immune at the end so first I'm preparing some stuff(probably will finish millicent quest to get more dmg so it's somewhat far off).

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

I was excited for NG+ because mid-late game is when things really started to get good. Build and equipment started to gel. Was finally sometimes even getting good. Late game started to become a slog and just reading up on what to do for NG+ and prep some got boring.

Realized I'd have to reroll before starting NG+ so bought and tried some of the dragon stuff on my heavily melee focused build. Thought dragon incantations would be awesome, but we're mostly boring and I find the UI is cumbersome for too much in-combat spell/item selecting so was just annoying.

Now realizing I'll probably just put the game down until a DLC. Which is fine, I'm over 200 hours on this playthrough (after an aborted 40 hour faith run). But while the start of the game was overwhelming for someone new to FromSoft games, the end has been very underwhelming. And I have a feeling NG+ won't scratch any itch I had to try new builds or early bosses on my current build, which is kinda a shame.

Would rather some NG+ mode where instead of just kinda being harder the actual world changed depending on your ending, or you kept a limited selection of items, equip and skills. As is, it just seems lazy and lacking in vision in a game with a lot of vision otherwise.

Caeden · Jun 5, 2022

Messing with sword of night and flame and I can’t even imagine how amazing this was pre-nerf. Still, moonveil feels more fluid to me.

Seananigans · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
I was excited for NG+ because mid-late game is when things really started to get good. Build and equipment started to gel. Was finally sometimes even getting good. Late game started to become a slog and just reading up on what to do for NG+ and prep some got boring.

Realized I'd have to reroll before starting NG+ so bought and tried some of the dragon stuff on my heavily melee focused build. Thought dragon incantations would be awesome, but we're mostly boring and I find the UI is cumbersome for too much in-combat spell/item selecting so was just annoying.

Now realizing I'll probably just put the game down until a DLC. Which is fine, I'm over 200 hours on this playthrough (after an aborted 40 hour faith run). But while the start of the game was overwhelming for someone new to FromSoft games, the end has been very underwhelming. And I have a feeling NG+ won't scratch any itch I had to try new builds or early bosses on my current build, which is kinda a shame.

Would rather some NG+ mode where instead of just kinda being harder the actual world changed depending on your ending, or you kept a limited selection of items, equip and skills. As is, it just seems lazy and lacking in vision in a game with a lot of vision otherwise.

Game with unparalleled breadth of content lazy for not having NG+ be new content. Lol.

I mean I get it, who wouldn’t love more content? But this argument is tough to take seriously. But who knows, maybe a future patch will involve making NG+ more interesting.

Rajaah · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
I was excited for NG+ because mid-late game is when things really started to get good. Build and equipment started to gel. Was finally sometimes even getting good. Late game started to become a slog and just reading up on what to do for NG+ and prep some got boring.

Realized I'd have to reroll before starting NG+ so bought and tried some of the dragon stuff on my heavily melee focused build. Thought dragon incantations would be awesome, but we're mostly boring and I find the UI is cumbersome for too much in-combat spell/item selecting so was just annoying.

Now realizing I'll probably just put the game down until a DLC. Which is fine, I'm over 200 hours on this playthrough (after an aborted 40 hour faith run). But while the start of the game was overwhelming for someone new to FromSoft games, the end has been very underwhelming. And I have a feeling NG+ won't scratch any itch I had to try new builds or early bosses on my current build, which is kinda a shame.

Would rather some NG+ mode where instead of just kinda being harder the actual world changed depending on your ending, or you kept a limited selection of items, equip and skills. As is, it just seems lazy and lacking in vision in a game with a lot of vision otherwise.

NG+ is there to mess around with new builds, IMO. Try that faith build you aborted, and if it doesn't work, switch back. I'm trying all kinds of weapons I ignored the first time through. Don't burn yourself out though, and it sounds like you might just be done with it for now.

My only beef with NG+ is that it's so easy, but it's my own fault that it is because I leveled to 255 in my original game. Got to about 220 naturally from doing everything, then grinded to 255 for giggles while AOEing in Mohgwyn Palace. I figured NG+ would crank up the difficulty to compensate but it doesn't enough.

Well, I've got about 3 hours put aside for it this afternoon, might be enough to get the last couple of trophies if I don't run into any problems. One of them is in Leyndell Sewers though so yech. I'm sure I'll go ahead and beat the rest of NG+ even after the plat is done, cause I've done that with every Soulsborne game except Dark Souls 1 (since you get the plat very early in NG++ there). This way if I do a replay later I'll have a file at the beginning.

Speaking of which, I gotta decide if I want my Demon's Souls Remake replay to be a new game from scratch or resume my existing file which I think was at the beginning of NG++...or maybe just NG+ can't remember what's necessary for the plat there. Resuming means I have access to lots of things to play around with on my old character who was awesome, scratch means I get a more authentic Demon's Souls "clawing for items" experience. IDK.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Seananigans said:
Game with unparalleled breadth of content lazy for not having NG+ be new content. Lol.

I mean I get it, who wouldn’t love more content? But this argument is tough to take seriously. But who knows, maybe a future patch will involve making NG+ more interesting.

NG+ is just lazy design. They just let you keep playing but kinda sorta tweak the difficulty but not really because a common complaint is it's still too easy? And maybe a few items or achievements you missed or weapons you want a second copy of, but mostly just going boss to boss to get to the next NG+ that is more of the same?

Notice you aren't arguing it isn't lazy, rather than making some adjacent argument that my wishing it wasn't done if they weren't going to actually put effort into making it worthwhile is somehow hard to take seriously in a game with "unparalleled breadth of content".

First, a ton of content, sure, but no lack of lazy, uninspired content as well. The game is plagued with resused bosses implemented in very lazy ways, sometimes just changing their color slightly. Zones that by design seem to be intended to run through. Areas that just seem pointless like the could have been cut screens. Very long cut scenes of getting into and out of the coffin to travel to a new zone that could have been a unique load screen.

So, I don't find the argument credible pretending the game is so full of unique and deliberate content they just didn't have time or vision or resources to do anything but phone it in for NG+.

They could have cut entire areas of the game and worked up a more meaningful NG+ and it would have only improved the game.

Or simply not had a lazy, uninspired NG+ and just left it out until it was meaningful content.

Having a ton of good, unique content doesn't mean the shortcomings in the game aren't there, no matter how many adjacent arguments you want to make.

It's okay to be honest about certain aspects of the game. It shouldn't ruin your experience to sit the game isn't perfect and things like NG+ are uninspired and lazy.

Dr.Retarded · Jun 5, 2022

I haven't sat down to play the game and maybe 3 weeks, just busy with crap, and it's definitely not a pickup and put down friendly game.

I keep wanting to, but at this point I don't remember where I was with the quest lines and what points of interest I was trying to go after. I've been bouncing around between different zones, and I think I'm up to the Capitol building before the Erd tree.

I haven't done anything for the volcano manor, and haven't been to the ice world. I just need to sit down and get back into it and I'm sure I can figure out where I left off and pick it all back up. I really wish there was just some sort of quest log, or system that kept track of what dungeons and stuff you've cleared through. I just need an indicator to remind me that place has been cleaned out. In hindsight, I should have just had a pen and a pad, and written down the name of whatever catacomb I finished. There's just so much content it's easy to lose track of where you're at, and at the end of the day that's a pretty amazing thing.

Seananigans · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
NG+ is just lazy design. They just let you keep playing but kinda sorta tweak the difficulty but not really because a common complaint is it's still too easy? And maybe a few items or achievements you missed or weapons you want a second copy of, but mostly just going boss to boss to get to the next NG+ that is more of the same?

Notice you aren't arguing it isn't lazy, rather than making some adjacent argument that my wishing it wasn't done if they weren't going to actually put effort into making it worthwhile is somehow hard to take seriously in a game with "unparalleled breadth of content".

First, a ton of content, sure, but no lack of lazy, uninspired content as well. The game is plagued with resused bosses implemented in very lazy ways, sometimes just changing their color slightly. Zones that by design seem to be intended to run through. Areas that just seem pointless like the could have been cut screens. Very long cut scenes of getting into and out of the coffin to travel to a new zone that could have been a unique load screen.

So, I don't find the argument credible pretending the game is so full of unique and deliberate content they just didn't have time or vision or resources to do anything but phone it in for NG+.

They could have cut entire areas of the game and worked up a more meaningful NG+ and it would have only improved the game.

Or simply not had a lazy, uninspired NG+ and just left it out until it was meaningful content.

Having a ton of good, unique content doesn't mean the shortcomings in the game aren't there, no matter how many adjacent arguments you want to make.

It's okay to be honest about certain aspects of the game. It shouldn't ruin your experience to sit the game isn't perfect and things like NG+ are uninspired and lazy.

I can’t think of any games with new content in NG+ off hand. NG+ is a concept designed for adding some continued playability for very little dev investment.

I agree it is tuned too low, but that is what I expect might change in a patch. I do not expect anything meaningfully different from NG, ever. And why? Just create new content that isn’t tied to NG+.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Rajaah said:
NG+ is there to mess around with new builds, IMO.

That's what I was hoping for, but think I'd rather just start fresh, building a new style from the ground up after hearing about NG+ balance being too easy. Would have loved for some mode where you can import limited gear to a level 1 character.

I think one of the other Souls games had a mode to refight bosses after beating the game? That would be cool. Maybe that and/or a challenge mode that sends waves of enemies.

But I have very little interest running back through the world skipping most stuff just to try out new builds on bosses. Already started feeling like that late game where I just want to get through shit to the next interesting point in the game.

Another weird paradox is the game seems to be designed with the idea you'd miss things the first time and going through it again would still have a strong sense of discovery. I found the game a bit too needlessly vague, where I started having to Google basic quest stuff (the answer being "reload the area" far too many times) and googling basic mechanics not well explained in game. That and being so huge and open.

I think they sorta undermined replayability of the world by pushing people like me who usually don't Google stuff into feeling it was necessary to even know what's going on or how stuff worked.

I love exploring and story driven games, but ironically find very little replayability of the world or story in Elden Ring. Replayability of bosses and builds, for sure, but not enough to suffer the amazingly crafted world again, which is why it's ironic I guess.

Dr.Retarded · Jun 5, 2022

Seananigans said:
I can’t think of any games with new content in NG+ off hand. NG+ is a concept designed for adding some continued playability for very little dev investment.

I agree it is tuned too low, but that is what I expect might change in a patch. I do not expect anything meaningfully different from NG, ever. And why? Just create new content that isn’t tied to NG+.

The Diablo series with nightmare and hell mode, where you get better loot drops and difficulty scaling comes to mind. I know there's not new content per se, but there was progression, and The promise of greater rewards for greater risk or difficulty.

I realize there's not a lot of randomized drops in Elden Ring other than some weapons and armor pieces from the regular mobs, and it's a completely different type of game, but it would be neat if there was some sort of randomization to promote you wanting to keep exploring the world with the carrot of potential new rewards. Maybe with a random drops but they have do you have a higher percentage chance of getting them or their the + versions of the gear you would have gotten in the first playthrough.

I know I still haven't even finished the game though, but this is an interesting conversation.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Dr.Retarded said:
In hindsight, I should have just had a pen and a pad, and written down the name of whatever catacomb I finished.

Can use markers to mark them. Hell, if they'd just had a check mark in the marking list then problem solved for most people without an overly complicated or hand holding UI system that every would spazz out over.

Quest log would be nice, too, and could be done without the bloat and hand holding of like Assassin's Creed games. Just very basic so I can even remember who people are and why I should give a shit when I haven't seen them for 50 hours of gameplay.

Hard to explain small stuff like that being missing (without it being an overblown strawman about trying to turn the game into AC).

Like, what if you didn't have to reengage conversation with NPCs a second or third time in a row until they repeat themselves to know they said what they needed to say. Missed several early quest starters that way.

Or having to reload an area and run right back to the same NPC to progress a quest or pick up an item.

The opposite of UI bloat and quest marker overload doesn't have to be needlessly counter intuitive like some things are in Elden Ring.

Dr.Retarded · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
Can use markers to mark them. Hell, if they'd just had a check mark in the marking list then problem solved for most people without an overly complicated or hand holding UI system that every would spazz out over.

Quest log would be nice, too, and could be done without the bloat and hand holding of like Assassin's Creed games. Just very basic so I can even remember who people are and why I should give a shit when I haven't seen them for 50 hours of gameplay.

Hard to explain small stuff like that being missing (without it being an overblown strawman about trying to turn the game into AC).

Like, what if you didn't have to reengage conversation with NPCs a second or third time in a row until they repeat themselves to know they said what they needed to say. Missed several early quest starters that way.

Or having to reload an area and run right back to the same NPC to progress a quest or pick up an item.

The opposite of UI bloat and quest marker overload doesn't have to be needlessly counter intuitive like some things are in Elden Ring.

It just would be so handy to have a point of interest crossed out or checked off if you killed the goddamn boss. Don't get me wrong I love the game, and I don't even know how many hours I have racked up on it, but it's more than any other game I played in easily a decade, but it would be a very simple thing to help keep track of the massive amount of content you've cleared through.

It's no different than the inability to easily play with your friends which that new mod has now fixed. That should have been in from day one, but I know from soft and these games have been quirky when it comes to their multiplayer, I guess it's probably a Japanese thing.

The game is challenging and difficult at times and it's rewarding, but I'm getting old and I can't remember what the hell I was trying to complete a month ago when I had the free time to sit down and play it. A log of some sort would be amazing, or just that simple X over a completed area.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Seananigans said:
I can’t think of any games with new content in NG+ off hand. NG+ is a concept designed for adding some continued playability for very little dev investment.

I agree it is tuned too low, but that is what I expect might change in a patch. I do not expect anything meaningfully different from NG, ever. And why? Just create new content that isn’t tied to NG+.

So, we agree NG+ is usually just devs letting people continue playing with little dev investment, but when I mention NG+ is exactly that in Elden Ring and seems lazier than normal imo due to what you agree is balance issues making it too easy, and you agree we would all want new, unique NG+ content....

All that agreeing, but when it's very light criticism of Elden Ring you lol respond to me with some adjacent argument about unparalleled breadth of content.

Seems maybe instead of entire zones and dungeons of reused mobs that got tedious, they could have at least breadth of contented themselves into a NG+ that was at least not agreed to be too easy and in line with the established, lazy industry norms?

I mean, the argument is, what, after so much industry rejecting design it's absurd to be disappointed by their completely lazy industry standard NG+?

Imo it's more they are new to open world design and some of it is just lazymode and let's not spazz out when people mention the flaws.

Ambiturner · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
So, we agree NG+ is usually just devs letting people continue playing with little dev investment, but when I mention NG+ is exactly that in Elden Ring and seems lazier than normal imo due to what you agree is balance issues making it too easy, and you agree we would all want new, unique NG+ content....

All that agreeing, but when it's very light criticism of Elden Ring you lol respond to me with some adjacent argument about unparalleled breadth of content.

Seems maybe instead of entire zones and dungeons of reused mobs that got tedious, they could have at least breadth of contented themselves into a NG+ that was at least not agreed to be too easy and in line with the established, lazy industry norms?

I mean, the argument is, what, after so much industry rejecting design it's absurd to be disappointed by their completely lazy industry standard NG+?

Imo it's more they are new to open world design and some of it is just lazymode and let's not spazz out when people mention the flaws.

NG+ is exactly what it's been in every souls game. Same game that gets harder with every +

If they spent time making NG+ unique that's less time spent on making more content for NG.

Complaining that a game doesn't have infinitely new content is pretty ridiculous

Hateyou · Jun 5, 2022

Dr.Retarded said:
I haven't sat down to play the game and maybe 3 weeks, just busy with crap, and it's definitely not a pickup and put down friendly game.

I keep wanting to, but at this point I don't remember where I was with the quest lines and what points of interest I was trying to go after. I've been bouncing around between different zones, and I think I'm up to the Capitol building before the Erd tree.

I haven't done anything for the volcano manor, and haven't been to the ice world. I just need to sit down and get back into it and I'm sure I can figure out where I left off and pick it all back up. I really wish there was just some sort of quest log, or system that kept track of what dungeons and stuff you've cleared through. I just need an indicator to remind me that place has been cleaned out. In hindsight, I should have just had a pen and a pad, and written down the name of whatever catacomb I finished. There's just so much content it's easy to lose track of where you're at, and at the end of the day that's a pretty amazing thing.

If I don’t clear a dungeon or overland boss I mark it with a skull icon. Remove it when I clear it.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Ambiturner said:
Complaining that a game doesn't have infinitely new content is pretty ridiculous

Nobody is complaining they don't have infinitely new content. I didn't even come close to implying that. Why make something up so idiotic? Does it even feel good calling someone ridiculous when it's based on such an absurd lie you had to invent?

Hateyou · Jun 5, 2022

popsicledeath said:
Nobody is complaining they don't have infinitely new content. I didn't even come close to implying that. Why make something up so idiotic? Does it even feel good calling someone ridiculous when it's based on such an absurd lie you had to invent?

Your complaint was pretty dumb tho. “NG” is lazy! Fuck yes it was lazy, they just made a retardedly huge, content packed, open world game for the first time, and they lazily tacked NG on at the end in case people wanted to do it. Stop crying about it, who cares. The game they made was nuts and fulfilling. If the game just ended people would be crying they didn’t tack on a lazy NG system for people who wanted to keep progressing a single character.

Even if you think I’m misreading ( I’m sure you do) whatever stupid point you’re trying to make I don’t care, you’ve gone on and on about it enough, stfu

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Hateyou said:
Your complaint was pretty dumb tho. “NG” is lazy! Fuck yes it was lazy, they just made a retardedly huge, content packed, open world game for the first time, and they lazily tacked NG on at the end in case people wanted to do it. Stop crying about it, who cares. The game they made was nuts and fulfilling. If the game just ended people would be crying they didn’t tack on a lazy NG system for people who wanted to keep progressing a single character.

Even if you think I’m misreading ( I’m sure you do) whatever stupid point you’re trying to make I don’t care, you’ve gone on and on about it enough, stfu

My complaint? First, my "complaint" was my person opinion and reasoning that NG+ wasn't appealing to me personally once I started reading up on it and learning it wasn't balanced well. The end game already gets too easy and becomes a slog that I feel was just running past content trying get to the next interesting boss fight.

My personal interest in doing that again, as explained, in NG+ but having it be even more face roll waned. Shocking post full of controversy I guess just required strong reactions instead of seeing a personal opinion that is well supported by others in this thread and just shrugging.

On and on by responding to literal morons who can't demonstrate basic reading comprehension. Saying retarded shit like I claimed the game didn't have a breadth of unparalleled content... Or that I wanted iNfINiTe original content.

Boring, banal posts by me about my personal preferences and opinions... Why respond so strangely and disproportionately? It's bizarre.

Hateyou · Jun 5, 2022

Well I only responded cause I was tired of all the posts about it. Like I get it, they could’ve done something better, cool.

The other responses to you were overblown and exaggerating your point.

popsicledeath · Jun 5, 2022

Hateyou said:
Well I only responded cause I was tired of all the posts about it. Like I get it, they could’ve done something better, cool.

The other responses to you were overblown and exaggerating your point.

So, I shouldn't have responded to overblown, exaggerating responses just in case it would annoy you and elicit a response from you on a subject you wanted less posts about? You were sick of seeing posts, so perpetuated the posting on the topic you were sick of seeing?

Do you believe I will keep responding to you even if you just moved on and didn't keep this going on and on with responses? What would that even look like? Me requoting the same posts? Tagging people? Anything I've done other than simply responding to people responding to me and usually just asking them to clarify or explain their overblown, exaggerated responses?

I'll give you a minute to ponder that, and whether my very offending posts would have even existed without the overblown, exaggerated responses. I'll patiently await your calling out those posts, as they perhaps seem the more worthy root of your ire.

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Elden Ring - From Software + George RR Martin

Pyros

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Seananigans

Honorary Shit-PhD

Rajaah

Honorable Member

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande

Dr.Retarded

Seananigans

Honorary Shit-PhD

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande

Dr.Retarded

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande

Dr.Retarded

popsicledeath

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Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible

popsicledeath

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Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible

popsicledeath

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Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande