Exactly my point. Claiming that todays MMO player couldn't hack it in EQ is a dumb thing to say. Considering that many "hardcore" EQ players showed that they couldn't hack it in WoW. I have nothing but respect for the cutting edge folks of EQ. Playing at the top in any game is worthy of a brofist. For whatever reason though a lot of old school EQ players keep acting like they are the only ones who understand what hard gaming is like. It just isn't true.
EQ Never
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Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Quote honestly, being good at EverQuest required not pissing yourself or hopefully not having to move your character while running down to get the pizza you just ordered, combined with a ton of time with nothing else to do. Did you play Vanilla EQ? Skillsets were not existent or minimal at best. The only skill you had to learn was making sure you didn't pull other camps mobs, don't hit the 2-3 mezzed mobs, which later turned to massive AE groups anyway, and when on a raid, hit your defensive as a warrior or make sure everyone has their A$ resist gear.
Seriously, that's it.
There were plenty posts here around the SoL boss days when the entire fight mechanic was making sure people weren't falling asleep while fighting in a corner or didn;t get too distracted by a new episode of 24.
Edit: Echoing Mkopec1 on this was up to about Planes of Power when I quit. I am guessing they have actual boss mechanics now besides hoping CT didn't call your name.
That's the case for most of WOW encounters, but hardmode heroic whatevers are pretty challenging from what I hear and have watched. You need to do more than just read a guide.
It does. I have done some of the Rain of Fear content already and it is far more interesting then the old "stick this mob in a corner...done!" game play. Still a far slower pace though, but that is just the limitations of the engine.
there were many difficult raid encounters in eq. finding ways to exploit some of them doesn't take away from that. most wow raids were brilliantly designed but most people didn't even raid because, like eq, you had to commit quite a bit of time to preparation. aside from discovering some of the raid strategies, i'm not sure how wow was hard. anyone with an ounce of dexterity can excel at the game.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Yep, very true.
I think for many people it isn't the raiding that they are talking about but just the general everyday gameplay. For many of us it is WoW's style of basic everyday gameplay that is boring, raiding isn't even a part of the equation. The quest hub, lack of danger / challenge in just stepping out of a city is what we miss.
I'm also not a fan of WoW's style of hoop jumping raids, but they definitely have challenge to them. It's just not something I find enjoyable.
WoW's version of gameplay isn't wrong and is very good for those people who enjoy it. But there is room in the mmo market for other styles also.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Much of the challenge to EQ came from the metagame, not the raid itself. Most final bosses were fairly simple. It was the act of getting a raid geared up, keyed up, and big enough to kill the boss, that was the challenge. And even more fun was the challenge of racing other guilds in open dungeons to get to the boss.
Some people like the metagame more than the actual boss encounter. It's just a different style of play. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other games out that play differently.
Agreed. I am hoping EQNext, Camelot Unchained, and (assuming it ever gets here) Archeage all find a place in the market. I loved DAoC and Ultima Online so much, and CU and Archeage both look like spiritual successors. EQNext is still up in the air. Hopefully we get some real information before too long.
I've seen too many mmorpgs trying to re-invent the genre failing in the past years that I'm not sure about this.
Which ones do you speak of? I feel like we've had a lot of WoW clones (loosely speaking) with improvements in some areas, failures in other areas but nothing I would really define as re-inventing the genre. It's all subjective of course so it's tough to say what exactly re-inventing the genre really is.
Most of these games have some cool new features and improvements but underlying each of them are the same core problems. I'm hoping we're at a point in time now where the fallout of WoW has subsided and those core concepts may be truly questioned instead of copied. It has taken a long time, and maybe it's not even here yet and I'm talking out of my ass. Who knows. All we can do is wait.
We have to get back to the "multiplayer" in MMO. Until then, all we have are single player quest treadmills until max level with a button to group/raid with random_person_you've_never_seen_before_or_never_wi ll_again_0423 where the leveling part is just an obstacle to rush past and the people you meet (if you actually do meet any) are just strangers you'll never get to know or play with again.
WoW vs EQ raiding is one of those things that are really hard to compare. The best way to describe it IMO would be EQ placed a greater burden on a handful of people where WoW / Rift and other games after it made the burden for victory more evenly distributed. Most EQ raids could carry a few slackers and people likely wouldn't notice but if a key player or two was afk it was usually a wipe. In addition, like others have said the biggest challenge with EQ raiding were the worse parts of the meta game. Something I doubt we'll ever see again and likely for the best.
Now one thing I really dislike is how tuned / scripted encounters are these days. The whole perfect victory requirement for some raids in certain games especially when they first come out is a bit tiring. These encounters are scripted so heavily now that its virtually impossible to stray at all from the exact way the developer designed the event to be beaten that it has removed all of the soul from completing it. Find a way other than "the way" and its usually patched despite it not really being game breaking.
I kind of wish things were not so rigid and took a few old school pages without all the ridiculous meta game bull shit that would ruin a full EQ remake. Most of these new games lack soul in a significant way and a large part of it is because they are designed to be played one and only one way from start to finish.
Now one thing I really dislike is how tuned / scripted encounters are these days. The whole perfect victory requirement for some raids in certain games especially when they first come out is a bit tiring. These encounters are scripted so heavily now that its virtually impossible to stray at all from the exact way the developer designed the event to be beaten that it has removed all of the soul from completing it. Find a way other than "the way" and its usually patched despite it not really being game breaking.
I kind of wish things were not so rigid and took a few old school pages without all the ridiculous meta game bull shit that would ruin a full EQ remake. Most of these new games lack soul in a significant way and a large part of it is because they are designed to be played one and only one way from start to finish.
You mean, Blizzard designed something to be beaten some way and they don't want it beaten another way? Or the fact there's boss phases, which prevent you to "just kill" it, even if you could burn it down in fifteen seconds. I.e. they designed the Rathe encounter to be beaten by evenly distributed raid groups, not by 20 clerics, 6 enchanters, 6 warriors and 40+ SK's as was seen on Sullon?
You can't say WoW raiding is hard but EQ's wasn't. Just because one has more twitch than the other means nothing. Some people are good at twitch; some are bad. So? That doesn't make the raid game itself harder. The raid game is wholly and totally static with unlimited continues.
"All you needed in EQ was lots of time." That's all you need in WoW too. You can beat any heroic encounter given enough time and bodies to throw at it repeating the dance.
There's no real difference to call one harder than the other. Different skillsets? Yes. Nothing is harder about WoW.
"All you needed in EQ was lots of time." That's all you need in WoW too. You can beat any heroic encounter given enough time and bodies to throw at it repeating the dance.
There's no real difference to call one harder than the other. Different skillsets? Yes. Nothing is harder about WoW.
Jim Russel
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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If the game has raiding (it probably will) I hope they figure out a way to avoid hard raid limits. Aside from the potential problems with changing those raid caps over the years (Eq went from limited by internet/pc power only to I think 72, 36, 48 very quickly, WoW from 40/10 to 25/10 or like that?), it causes problems within the guild. Up until PoP our guild pretty much raided with everyone that was online and interested, ranging from 30ish to 50ish usually and we made the best out of what we had. We might have recruited to plug holes in the roster but we didnt have to tell people "sorry you cant play with us tonight". Back then that sucked. Maybe the attitude towards it is different these days with people often only going for their +gooder points anyway and not to play with friends. Maybe it still sucks just the same to be told to sit out. I dont know because I havent raided since 2005ish, but I havent heard about anything but hard raid caps and content designed to require those numbers unless you outgear it or use the raid finder easy mode.
I think scaling raid content while maintaining a roughly equal challenge and making different and interesting encounters at the same time would be a nightmare, especially with players figuring out sweet spots in your scaling and using that for easy kills. Simply saying all this content is for 20 people, no more allowed and less then 18 or 19 is pointless is the easy way out for sure.
I think scaling raid content while maintaining a roughly equal challenge and making different and interesting encounters at the same time would be a nightmare, especially with players figuring out sweet spots in your scaling and using that for easy kills. Simply saying all this content is for 20 people, no more allowed and less then 18 or 19 is pointless is the easy way out for sure.
Ya know... this is what bosses and encounters in EverQuest looked like:
And this is how they look like in MMORPG's in WoW and it's clones. Once you get to A, B happens and C does with D and when that goes away, jump up and press R to fuck the goat.
Oh, you failed to press R when the game required it? That's too bad. You fail. Die you retard.
And this is how they look like in MMORPG's in WoW and it's clones. Once you get to A, B happens and C does with D and when that goes away, jump up and press R to fuck the goat.
Oh, you failed to press R when the game required it? That's too bad. You fail. Die you retard.