Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,865
- 6,822
The vast majority of players do not raid in mmos, and many never even reach max level.
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
- 2,363
- 695
It's simple. You make the leveling content just as exciting and hard as the end game content. You then introduce bottle necks at the end game to keep them playing and add in an AA system to keep them grinding with people still leveling.
daoc had artifacts which initally required leveling up. some would only lvl up on certain type of mobs. the way it was implemented wasn't interesting given that it was more bland pve. then again, they had class skills instead of solely items yielding skills.
could be interesting, but depends on the whole game
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 7,956
- 9,649
You're mixing sandbox with blank canvas.
The two elements that make a sandbox are:
- The players are the drivers/generators of the content and dynamics of the game
- Each player can experience the game in a different manner and pursue different and achievable objectives.
That's why a game like EVE is a sandbox: the majority of the interesting content is the whole 0.0 alliance/wars (everyone agrees that the static stuff like mission running, mining, ratting is boring). The skill structure means that players get to do completely different gameplays (from miners to industrialists to gang members to whatever).
That's why a game like ATITD is a sandbox: the game world is essentially filled with player-made structures, players provide their own organizations and can even vote to change the game, and pursue whatever Tests they feel like to (at least in the first two tales. That level stuff that got in later destroyed a bit the freedom).
That's why a game like UO was mildly sandboxy: players could do a lot of various professions, and you had some content provided by them (housing / vendors)
That's why a game like Shadowbane was partially sandboxy: the majority of the content was the player-built cities (but people were essentially channeled into "get level 20/earn money").
And that's why EQ isn't a sandbox. Players provided no content or dynamics, except in the narrow area of raiding where a guild downing a boss meant no one got to play with him for a week. And, as Draegan said, you had exactly one way of playing: getting levels, gearing up (and later getting AA). You could no more "experience the game in different ways" than people firing up Civ5 and not hitting the next turn button "experience Civ5 in a different way". So EQ was a free-form park (as opposed to a theme park, with its carefully metered rides, where you're told you've finished with this area when you got the 10 bulls-eye on the target, and its time to move to the next ride)
Dr Neir
Trakanon Raider
- 832
- 1,505
Holy crap WALL:
We can argue all day that CCP could get triple the sub numbers if they would curb the PVP a lot and bump the NPC/PVE pirate spawns and create a better challenge for players and increase the danger from NPC/PVEs in the loss of ships and equipment to create more turnover in created stuff. At current, large Corps sit with their thumb up their ass waiting for something, ships arent being replace as much as when a HUGE loss of gear happens like a WAR.
The point, if you apply this model without pvp or limit pvp and keep the core of the game with NPC/PVE as the PVP substitute, it will fit with EQ/WOW based games while allowing everyone work for what they get. The lvling scheme and epeen raiding has been trivalized and boring over the years. Old EQ or WOW, ya it was fun or boring depending on class or guild. BUT, with that you can still have raiding, hense the DED and WH reference. Guessing I need to state what that is for those that dont know what that is or have not played EVE. Its raiding basically, you show up, there are mobs, you kill and loot.
What I suggest is the crafting BPO/BPC, offline skills and no lvls. The fundamental game play with PVP side of it replace with NPC/PVE automation. I know many like the grind and raiding. I like crafting and exploring. I want EQN to have some meat with meaning in crafting, I enjoy fighting and exploring. I tire of days when I hit a zone, see the local faction, grind it and then out lvl the zone and find that all the hard work I did in that zone doesnt carry over to the next area I am pushed into.
Hope this clears thing up on what I am trying to suggest.
EQ had a good amount of Q-chains and many ppl I knew grinded out to max or at the least enough over lvl to solo it then hit the chain to fly thru it. The T-sink was lvls in the way that lengthened the quest. This system has many problems to it and we all just dealed with it but should we really keep dealing with it?
The problem with it:
First is the chain, others helping that are not in the same spot as you will have to wait and redo many parts of it again if they bypass their next first in order to catch up on their own chain. This cant be changed.
Second is the ability, meaning can you do the quest with enough power to complete or get the help to complete, this you can get help with but it depends on the next point....
Third the lvl, if you need help or want to help they will need to be the same lvl as you, or over lvl to be effective.
Remove the lvl and you are left with the Chain and Ability. This allows more ppl to help you out if needed. I remember old EQ and having to help guildies out on things and many others wanting to help but couldnt due to lvl. On the flip side I also had WOW friend not wanting to lift a finger to help me out as I was lvling up. Got the standard, screw that quest. Stop wasting your time with that crap and lvl up. Better gear at max!
Point to your quote is this, T-sinks can be many things. I dont think in todays MMO market lvls should be one of them. I did a ton of other things in EQ. I often took many long breaks from lvling to craft and explore and do some quests. I loved many of the quests it had, just would hit a wall with lvls often. Part of this point is within this quote:
Dont want to say ppl are being dense but calling a duck a duck here.
I get it, lvls are something to hang on to as an achievement but useless and not needed. Waiting for the masses to open their eyes about it. If the only argument about needing lvls in a game is for T-sinks and Player Power. Then I guess faction grinds, researching Q-chains for unlocks, quest/kill unlocks, skill use, timed RL unlocks and gear stats haven't been invented yet to be a substitute for lvls?
If lvls are the HOLY crap gotta have end all thing ppl can't let go of. I would like lvls to be a sum of things. Similar to Gear score in WOW, this would be a sort of arbitrary number to show power, faction and time or close to G-score with total of gear power. Not sure how that would translate or if it would even work. I think Defiance has something close to this on some lvl. I think this could be the thing others have been wanting with the non lvl deal. A way to see how powerful someone is.
This would be a weird system, one sec you are "lvl 10" with all rusty gear and then "lvl 20" a sec later after equipping all iron gear. Lvl isnt something you grind but what you wear or have unlocked with quests or faction but may not be from power. What I remember, Secret World sort of has this but is mainly just Skills. It also has no lvls if I remember right from Beta.
Even reverse lvls like bonus in titles can work without lvls and do so very well. Example: more you kill X creature the bigger the bonus % to hit against that type of mob. This is very nice but I havent see that much done with it in games in general which is a shame. Same with resist gear and bane items, these have been left behind due to player not wanting to carry all those different types of items. Counter to this is having pack mule NPC and housing that holds those items for you to pickup. I liked the SWG and EQ2 housing idea with some of the furniture actually being usable in storage with limits. This also goes with taxes, more you use the more cost..etc.
This would work again if things like investments to player's local area was done. Travel time would be from the player's house or guild hall to the outside wall area to take on raids, dungeons and quests. Just because the known game world is vast doesnt mean you have to goto each area. (EVE and old school EQ). There were many zones that you didnt need or want to goto but for X thing. Towns should be the same. Only ppl wanting to travel vast distances would be haulers, venders and the rare mission conquest fighters looking to move around. I know this is a weird concept for ppl but works well. I missed 8+ starting zones with their own eco-habitat. But this time it should allow for ppl not wanting to move to other areas but to be with friends or change guilds and give time to build up the area and unlock that area's quests and roaming mob bands and merchant trains.
Think the web game Travian would best describe the idea just in first/third person view when it comes to dropping a house/Townhall/guildhall on a static spot in the world world and it kicks off local automated tribes and content. Etc ETc..hoping the point hits home with it here.
The way it has been looking for the past few years, lvls are on the way out or at the least changed to mean something else or in disguise of old lvling schemes. Defiance, Secret World, Darkfall, EVE, Planetside 2 and Dust514 to name some off the top of my head.
Sidestep about EVE here. The Model in place for Eve is good and how it is applied is very much PVP. I will agree that how CCP executes this model does fits but not great and would suck if placed within EQ/WOW type of game which I think if you did do it, I would compare it to Darkfall.
We can argue all day that CCP could get triple the sub numbers if they would curb the PVP a lot and bump the NPC/PVE pirate spawns and create a better challenge for players and increase the danger from NPC/PVEs in the loss of ships and equipment to create more turnover in created stuff. At current, large Corps sit with their thumb up their ass waiting for something, ships arent being replace as much as when a HUGE loss of gear happens like a WAR.
The point, if you apply this model without pvp or limit pvp and keep the core of the game with NPC/PVE as the PVP substitute, it will fit with EQ/WOW based games while allowing everyone work for what they get. The lvling scheme and epeen raiding has been trivalized and boring over the years. Old EQ or WOW, ya it was fun or boring depending on class or guild. BUT, with that you can still have raiding, hense the DED and WH reference. Guessing I need to state what that is for those that dont know what that is or have not played EVE. Its raiding basically, you show up, there are mobs, you kill and loot.
What I suggest is the crafting BPO/BPC, offline skills and no lvls. The fundamental game play with PVP side of it replace with NPC/PVE automation. I know many like the grind and raiding. I like crafting and exploring. I want EQN to have some meat with meaning in crafting, I enjoy fighting and exploring. I tire of days when I hit a zone, see the local faction, grind it and then out lvl the zone and find that all the hard work I did in that zone doesnt carry over to the next area I am pushed into.
Hope this clears thing up on what I am trying to suggest.
Yes, long quests for great items. This doesnt need lvls. Its a chain, even SWG had themeparks with this. SWG didnt really have lvls in a way. Could Argue there was lvl 50 for those maxing their points. But it was mainly a point choice setup.
EQ had a good amount of Q-chains and many ppl I knew grinded out to max or at the least enough over lvl to solo it then hit the chain to fly thru it. The T-sink was lvls in the way that lengthened the quest. This system has many problems to it and we all just dealed with it but should we really keep dealing with it?
The problem with it:
First is the chain, others helping that are not in the same spot as you will have to wait and redo many parts of it again if they bypass their next first in order to catch up on their own chain. This cant be changed.
Second is the ability, meaning can you do the quest with enough power to complete or get the help to complete, this you can get help with but it depends on the next point....
Third the lvl, if you need help or want to help they will need to be the same lvl as you, or over lvl to be effective.
Remove the lvl and you are left with the Chain and Ability. This allows more ppl to help you out if needed. I remember old EQ and having to help guildies out on things and many others wanting to help but couldnt due to lvl. On the flip side I also had WOW friend not wanting to lift a finger to help me out as I was lvling up. Got the standard, screw that quest. Stop wasting your time with that crap and lvl up. Better gear at max!
Point to your quote is this, T-sinks can be many things. I dont think in todays MMO market lvls should be one of them. I did a ton of other things in EQ. I often took many long breaks from lvling to craft and explore and do some quests. I loved many of the quests it had, just would hit a wall with lvls often. Part of this point is within this quote:
Using the quote to point out the problem with lvls. Dev time with 80% game, items, mobs, quests, dungeons, zone research and creation time just to have it sit and waste away. Why?.......Drums please......for Levels as T-sinks.
Dont want to say ppl are being dense but calling a duck a duck here.
I get it, lvls are something to hang on to as an achievement but useless and not needed. Waiting for the masses to open their eyes about it. If the only argument about needing lvls in a game is for T-sinks and Player Power. Then I guess faction grinds, researching Q-chains for unlocks, quest/kill unlocks, skill use, timed RL unlocks and gear stats haven't been invented yet to be a substitute for lvls?
If lvls are the HOLY crap gotta have end all thing ppl can't let go of. I would like lvls to be a sum of things. Similar to Gear score in WOW, this would be a sort of arbitrary number to show power, faction and time or close to G-score with total of gear power. Not sure how that would translate or if it would even work. I think Defiance has something close to this on some lvl. I think this could be the thing others have been wanting with the non lvl deal. A way to see how powerful someone is.
This would be a weird system, one sec you are "lvl 10" with all rusty gear and then "lvl 20" a sec later after equipping all iron gear. Lvl isnt something you grind but what you wear or have unlocked with quests or faction but may not be from power. What I remember, Secret World sort of has this but is mainly just Skills. It also has no lvls if I remember right from Beta.
Even reverse lvls like bonus in titles can work without lvls and do so very well. Example: more you kill X creature the bigger the bonus % to hit against that type of mob. This is very nice but I havent see that much done with it in games in general which is a shame. Same with resist gear and bane items, these have been left behind due to player not wanting to carry all those different types of items. Counter to this is having pack mule NPC and housing that holds those items for you to pickup. I liked the SWG and EQ2 housing idea with some of the furniture actually being usable in storage with limits. This also goes with taxes, more you use the more cost..etc.
This would work again if things like investments to player's local area was done. Travel time would be from the player's house or guild hall to the outside wall area to take on raids, dungeons and quests. Just because the known game world is vast doesnt mean you have to goto each area. (EVE and old school EQ). There were many zones that you didnt need or want to goto but for X thing. Towns should be the same. Only ppl wanting to travel vast distances would be haulers, venders and the rare mission conquest fighters looking to move around. I know this is a weird concept for ppl but works well. I missed 8+ starting zones with their own eco-habitat. But this time it should allow for ppl not wanting to move to other areas but to be with friends or change guilds and give time to build up the area and unlock that area's quests and roaming mob bands and merchant trains.
Think the web game Travian would best describe the idea just in first/third person view when it comes to dropping a house/Townhall/guildhall on a static spot in the world world and it kicks off local automated tribes and content. Etc ETc..hoping the point hits home with it here.
The way it has been looking for the past few years, lvls are on the way out or at the least changed to mean something else or in disguise of old lvling schemes. Defiance, Secret World, Darkfall, EVE, Planetside 2 and Dust514 to name some off the top of my head.
I'd like to see trains return, but I don't think EQ-style dungeons (Chardok/Seb/etc.) have a place in the modern MMO world. Not very dynamic sitting in a room having someone else pull mobs to you, or walking around a static area killing static spawns for static drops on static spawn timers. Not even remotely fun anymore, and it was only fun back then because of how much time we spent talking about shit during said time. Not only has the genre moved away from that model, but the overwhelming majority of MMO players aren't looking to spend 3-4 hours staring at the same room so they can watch a yellow bar move foward a milimeter an hour.
tl;dr: introduce faux leveling systems but don't call them leveling systems. You can disguise it all you want, but if you need 'Plate Armor of the Whale' to kill a boss in a dungeon, but you can't get 'Plate Armor of the Whale' with the gear you start the game with, you have now introduced leveling and thus have content to be consumed to allow the player to get said armor to get the next tier to kill the boss. You won't ever be able to get away from it, because *gasp* leveling is progression, much as gear is. If you take away levels, all you end up with is the same thing you do at level cap in WoW: farm better items to farm better items to farm better items.
And I hope to god they never introduce EQ-style crafting ever again, especially anything remotely resembling Fletching.
GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 6,766
- 17,077
I don't completely agree on everquest crafting portion, crafting in that game was akin to crafting in Minecraft except, you actually had skill points associated with each different profession. In the future I would like to see games combine a pseudo version of minecraft to attain crafting within an mmo. Something where players can go out and freely attain materials to craft but in order to craft those materials into something usable they would have to skill up given professions through finding recipes.
in my honest opinion I think a combination between minecraft and the mystic forge inside Guild Wars 2 would be the most ideal crafting method. the ability to harvest materials should always be available to any player with the only barrier to entry being the purchase of harvesting tools. the basic set of crafting recipes should be available to all players but any recipe that goes above and beyond should be slated only to be found via trial and error.
obviously this is just a cursory statement of what I think crafting should look like and there are lots of situations where I'm unsure of how this would be handled but this gives the groundwork what I think it should look like.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 11,556
- 7,863
I understand how the levelling game could be avoided... But I'm having trouble with the why. Why do we want to avoid it? Why can't the levelling experience be meaningful and fun? One that teaches me how to play to my highest potential. One that lets me make friends and enemies along the way to my tangible and attainable goal. One that teaches me about the history, geography, and politics of the world.
I actually enjoy my first time levelling in new MMOs, and the fact of the matter is, there will always be an 'end game'. Some target level of power that we as a community will agree upon, and then race to. People want to race through content? Let them. If the world is dynamic enough it won't matter anyway. Mid level xp zones becoming under utilized shouldn't be a problem in a sandbox either. All devs would have to do is plop a Phatlewtium Ore deposit in the middle of the Karanas, and grats, high level players will build settlements near it, fight wars over it, and otherwise flock to the area...
Abolishing levelling might not be a bad idea... But it's certainly not a necessary one.
I actually enjoy my first time levelling in new MMOs, and the fact of the matter is, there will always be an 'end game'. Some target level of power that we as a community will agree upon, and then race to. People want to race through content? Let them. If the world is dynamic enough it won't matter anyway. Mid level xp zones becoming under utilized shouldn't be a problem in a sandbox either. All devs would have to do is plop a Phatlewtium Ore deposit in the middle of the Karanas, and grats, high level players will build settlements near it, fight wars over it, and otherwise flock to the area...
Abolishing levelling might not be a bad idea... But it's certainly not a necessary one.
I like what you said here, which brings up a huge mix of what made EQ. Although, Some of the basic inconveniences of EQ are what made it flow together. There was a ton social interaction in classic EQ which a lot of games lack now.
Lets say travel, especially during classic once you made a decision to make the trip to a far away area, to me it was understood that once you got there, you were either going to spend quite a bit of time getting back or spend hard earned money just to get a port back. I think that since this was the case for most people that once they got to that area they were more convinced to stay in that area to level up than to just say screw it and leave. (Say traveling from FP to the Karanas) Of course that example especially at lower levels ran the risk of dying in kith or falling down the ramp out of HHP if you didnt pay attention. There was a lot consequence for making a wrong turn in almost every zone, even if you were level appropriate.
With there being a group and grind factor in EQ vs a "let me just quest to max level as fast as I can" once you got to an area to level, more than likely you were going to stay there for quite some time. (Use FP to Karana to camp Aviaks/Paw as example) Once you were in that area you had to search for a group and get to know people, If you spent enough time you could build social relationships, you learned who was a douche or who were good at their class. Those people at their levels were rewarded for their play based on the name, not always the gear.
Basically if there is a reason for people interact and depend on each other for their skill at ALL levels, it makes the game more enjoyable. Instead of forcing a straight line to max level to have any fun. Get rid of mass quest and add a little more grind/farm. This would let the die hards play longer and get the end game faster and let the casual player not feel like they are missing out because they arent max level. If you force a longer level time, people with less time to play aren't left struggling to catch up IMO.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
It's a Boy Scout Jamobree minus the prayer service and pancake breakfest.
FFY.
You're trying to make your argument by using a very narrow definition of sandbox and a very broad definition of themepark.
You got to do things in Classic EQ that you weren't supposed to do and SOE rolled with it instead of twisting their code and your fun into a pretzel and stomping on your innovative gameplay like Blizzard. EQ had non-instanced dungeon content so funny stuff happened - like trains and ks'ing, (intentional or not) and it wasn't quest-driven - so you had to poke around and figure out where to level on your own - often hilariously resulting in your own death
None of these things made it a sandbox but they certainly made it something other than just a themepark.Anyway who cares, Smedley isn't the most trustworthy guy in the business so EQ Next could be a sandbox by any definition but still suck donkey's balls. Hopefully not. Assuming there is a SOE Live^2 EQN thread I'll post along with whomever else is there.
Good Times (tm)
Imagine if they Kickstart this project, most of us would donate the fuck out of it over sheer nostalgia and alpha/beta slots, I miss my online 'home' so much.
Please be half-decent.
Please be half-decent.
You need progression in an mmo to keep people playing. EVE does this really well as a sandbox but it doesnt translate that well into the typical fantasy game.
If you really break down what EVE does tho they progress you through classes more than through levels.
Here comes my poor analogy of EVE in a fantasy game: At level 1 you are a ranger, at 10 you are a mage, at 20 a cleric, at 30 a warrior etc etc. A level 50 playing as a ranger is only slightly more effective than a true week old newb with no gear because of how the game is structured. The fact that a ranger is just as viable in the game as a warrior means that the guy playing it isnt segregated into a corner of the world away from the warriors, he is just locked into a newb role until he levels up. So your levels let you fill out and take on more roles but not really to increase the power of your original role by massive amounts.
If you really break down what EVE does tho they progress you through classes more than through levels.
Here comes my poor analogy of EVE in a fantasy game: At level 1 you are a ranger, at 10 you are a mage, at 20 a cleric, at 30 a warrior etc etc. A level 50 playing as a ranger is only slightly more effective than a true week old newb with no gear because of how the game is structured. The fact that a ranger is just as viable in the game as a warrior means that the guy playing it isnt segregated into a corner of the world away from the warriors, he is just locked into a newb role until he levels up. So your levels let you fill out and take on more roles but not really to increase the power of your original role by massive amounts.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 582
- 109
First, I never liked Raiding ever. I was intrigued by the concept 12 years ago but once I tried it I knew I don't like it. So, the "end game" to me was literally the End of the Game I usually stop enjoying it once the game demands of me to treat the game as a second job.
What I enjoyed in EverQuest was consuming content at my own pace. Since there was no quest-hubs or forced-content it made the whole world felt huge... what I would do is research for what kind of dungeon I want to do and convince my friends to do them. Whether for XP or loot, it was fun. It was fun because it was challenging and there were a lot of "oops" moments in EQ that I rarely find in other games. The Fizzling, OOM, Trains, Invisibility Breaking, Runner Pulling More Mobs, Puller making a mistake... and so forth. Because of these simple game mechanics crawling/grinding a dungeon was seriously fun for me. I've spent countless hours "grinding" for xp willingly and when I leave the game I can't wait till I can jump back into it. Compared to current MMORPGs, the combat and the group experience is.... LACKING.
I've also made a test recently and I played EQ99.... the above is STILL TRUE. Grouping was still fun... I've never had fun grouping in the last few years as much as I did in EQ99.
I think there's something important about EQ's combat system and the resource management / downtime. There are plenty of mechanics working together making this experience unique and there's demand for it in the market (not 10 millions, more like half a million). You will never win over kids nor you'll please some FoH forum members and that's very normal. What you can do, however, is be guaranteed to win your core audience. At one condition.... no compromises.
I don't think the "leveling" process is broken to be fixed. It can be broken when you force-feed your players with boring content (like Quest Text and FedEx errands). It is broken when you discourage grouping and restrict the players with linear paths. However, if you give us enough freedom BUT with enough content (dungeons basically) of various difficulties which encourage grouping... you'll have me playing the game crawling your dungeons one by one.
I thinkpartof why players seek "end game" is due to itemization. EQ's itemization didn't follow a pattern (they were unique and individually designed) and it took you a long time to find an upgrade for your gear. Some low to med level gear was viable for a big percentage of your character's career; seeking out these items was worth your time which in results made us enjoy the leveling experience and not care too much about the "end game". Compare this to the trend that was created 8 years ago where gear is mass-made following a simple algorithm and you can easily see the pattern at hand (Uncommon, Rare, Epic...etc).
Why care for leveling when a) leveling is so boring yet so fast, b) items look-a-like except they get a little better every level which means you'll get an identical item at level 60 (but with more stats) rendering every item before max-level useless c) Everything is locked to a level (item level, I need to get 2 more levels so I can wear this gear I just looted OR I need to level to 40 so I can be eligible to progress my Blacksmithing skills OR I can only get a mount once I reach level 20...etc). All these made leveling to max level mandatory.
Sandbox meaning four boards and sand? The sandbox found in playgrounds? Everyone knows what a sandbox is and everyone has used one. You make stuff in a sandbox. It might be a hole or it might be the Sistine Chapel, but you create stuff with the sand.
In most MMOs today, the players don't create anything, they just use the things the devs created. At most they craft things the devs created to craft another item the devs created.
Is Minecraft a sandbox? I think so, it has something like sand that you can build stuff out of, houses, roads, roll coasters what ever you want.
Second Life is a sandbox cause you can create your own 3D models and upload them for other players to use.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 7,956
- 9,649
I'm not sure it would increase much their subs. At worst, curbing PvP might make the game more boring and cause a drop in their subs due to 0.0 boredom.
What CCP needs to is to revampcompletelythe way low-sec works. At the moment, low-sec does not present much compelling gameplay to give incentives to players to step out of empire. And the jump to 0.0 coalitions is daunting for most (what was the number... 75% of the players never leave empire?).
So, redo the entire low-sec system. Instead of low-sec, make it "variable-sec". It's low sec by default (no concord, security status)... until a corp starts building structures and generate control and ownership of the system. The control raises the effective sec status until you achieve an effective 0.5 status, at which point Concord starts intervening, but with a lower effective strength (instead of blowing your ship, they come with just enough force to blow it and you might be able to escape since you're not warp-locked like in high sec). The corp in control of the system has police privilege (i.e. they can attack you without raising Concord, and then you can riposte without having Concord on you either). You can wrestle control of the system from the controlling corp using standard tools: wardec, getting a "casus belli" (some form expanded use of suspect flag/limited engagement flag where you can have someone on your side attacked, and then to become able to wage local war without having to do a full wardec).
Basically, incentivize empire-only player corps to move to low sec by giving them protection against random piracy, and introduce them to territory control warfare (with the idea that they're going to look towerd 0.0 later, with more riches).
This post completely mirrors my experience. EQ for me felt like I was fully into the game and enjoying it from the word go. My goals were all pretty short term "I want a ghoulbane! I want my 29 spells! I want to do runnyeye!". And there were always a shitload of people in the mid/low levels doing stuff due to the pace in the early game. In most current games? I have something like 60 days combined /played, and I can't recall a single sub-60 item or dungeon I wanted to crawl and attain. Because it seriously felt like the game wasn't designed for stopping and smelling the roses, it was meant to push you to the endgame ASAP.
Boring-ass items in the mid levels are key offenders. Quests update so fast that you're swapping gear faster than you can remember its name. Granted, it's probably some generic "Prefix pantaloons of the suffix" anyway.
Compared to stuff like ghoulbane, that I quested for as a 40ish druid, passed on to my level 1 paladin alt, and then used for a good 30+ levels, and then passed down to my friend's paladin alt, and was then sold on the open market. Item's in EQ just felt a lot more meaningful and tangible than the shit that had forced level requirements, and got replaced as often as 2-3 times per level. I just do not enjoy that at all. I want my item upgrades to be more deliberate and sought out.
I fucking hate raiding at this point and won't do it. Listening to neckbeards and teenagers whine over ventrillo is the last thing I want to do on a saturday night (I prefer to contain my sperging' on the forums, thanks!). I would love an experience like EQ again where it wasn't designed around an endgame.I think something skill based with less focus on leveling and stats and +1 biggerer dps, more pure gameplay (think dark souls: I can beat it at level 1, but it's fucking brutal and relentless with no apologies), and a far more horizontal kind of barrier to entry. Don't design an endgame, design an engaging world with a massive landmass, a lot of player driven stuff, tons of interesting dungeons, player created dungeons and challenges, and so on.
Otherwise for me this will be same old shit. Grind to 60 in a month, raid a bit and get big shoulders, declare it sucks because of (insert: balance, itemization, endgame), and quit. I guess I really want a more social/community based game with a focus on exploration and world than I do a combat based game. A lot of this is just because I feel MMO based combat is boring as shit at worst and uninspired hotkey DDR while not standing in the fire at best.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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The chief problem of the theme-park rails.
Given that you are going to get "tickets" (quests) to rides (objectives) of short duration (so that you vacate the premises and let the next quester come in and get his own), you're never going to stay long in any area. Consequently, you can't take long to distribute gear; giving them from quest is much simpler than having your current targets drop it (or they need to drop every time). Also, since your experience is calibrated (you're in this area at level 33, that one at 34), your character power must be known and fixed within narrow limits. So, either gear gives you very little, or you must ensure a character has "appropriate" gear, meaning you distribute it regularly.
And this, people, is why you get showered in items every level tier.