EQ Never

Abefroman · Jun 20, 2013

rolx_sl said:
Why do you even come on this thread just to troll? I don't see the point of coming on a game thread and just talking about how much it will suck lol. Each and every to their own but why just try to bring everyone down every other post about how much it's going to suck you just sound like a tard.

I never said it would suck. I am making fun of all the nostalgic nit wits that are going to have emotional breakdowns when their precious isn't a recreation of EQ. People like you infest every single fucking MMO thread with your EQ nostalgic bullshit and you have the balls to say I'm trolling? Get a clue.

LachiusTZ · Jun 20, 2013

Draegan_sl said:
(edit: @Pyros)^Truth

Not wanting downtime doesn't mean you have ADHD, it just means you don't like games where you have to sit and lick your monitor. If I want downtime because real life factors in I ask people if we can chill for a few minutes so I can take care of my shit. 9 out of 10 times people are cool with that.

Hard to do that in an noninstanced respawning dungeon. You know when the breaks are coming, because you keep track of the respawns and how long it took to kill the cycle / initial break. So just, "Hey guys, need to stop the game for 15 minutes" usually doesnt work. Unless your a ranger. Or a lazy non tanking SK . . .

Lemmiwinks_sl · Jun 20, 2013

I still think one of the best solutions to the hot-bar combat and button mashing is to make the AI in these games universally more challenging and intelligent.

I want wizard mobs casting stuns on my cleric while he's healing. I want rogue mobs to actively be seeking backstabs. This would require players to not only form coherent team work, but to pay more attention to their characters abilities and what is going on in battle, while also eliminating mindless ability usage. If you see the red sparklies of a stun spell going off, you oughta to realize whats about to happen and take appropriate action. Root the damn rogue mob thats trying to backstab.

Not sure about you guys or the 'average' MMO gamer, but I would go nuts for this kind of real challenge.

Malakriss · Jun 20, 2013

I disagree with any type of token or "commendation" drop. Named/rares should have an increased chance to spawn or drop the good items if their placeholder is constantly killed. So if a group is camping a spawn and killing it over and over again the % increases (up to a maximum). Once the group leaves and the placeholder stays alive the % starts decreasing over time back down to the minimum.

This also has the added effect of reducing the number of named/rares that auto spawn after server up since everything will be at the default minimum value.

Draegan_sl · Jun 20, 2013

LachiusTZ_sl said:
If I had to choose on 500hrs of wack a mole DDR finger rape (Cata / WotLK WoW), or 450 hrs of auto attack / fuck up and die (Classic EQ) + 50hrs of idle down time, I'm going the 450+50 every time.

Sometimes, after 30min or so of breaking a hard camp, you want that 5 minutes to go fucking piss, stand up, stick your dick in something wet, make a drink, talk to others about how you wish you were 16 eating shitty Totino's pizzas, find some new music to listen to, change whats on the TV, put in a movie, make a phone call, read a forum, jerk off, check the score to a game, send a text, put laundry in the drier, etc, etc, ETC

That is a terrible comparison. Do I really need to get in to why? I also don't know anything in WOW that takes longer than 30 minutes outside of raids. Even then, the reason why you can't take a break after 30 minutes of play is you, not the game's. The combat systems of either game make no difference.

I'm not trying to defend WOTLK, CATA, MOP's dungeon design, because it's really really bad. But where WOW you are constantly moving through a dungeon, in EQ you're barely crawling or often enough, standing still. There's probably a nice middle somewhere in there.

Draegan_sl · Jun 20, 2013

LachiusTZ_sl said:
Hard to do that in an noninstanced respawning dungeon. You know when the breaks are coming, because you keep track of the respawns and how long it took to kill the cycle / initial break. So just, "Hey guys, need to stop the game for 15 minutes" usually doesnt work. Unless your a ranger. Or a lazy non tanking SK . . .

Ok? Taking a 15 minute break in any multiplayer game is usually tough to do no matter what. Because fuck you guy if you want me to sit around and do nothing for 15 minutes while you jerk off somewhere.

Pyros · Jun 20, 2013

LachiusTZ_sl said:
Sometimes, after 30min or so of breaking a hard camp, you want that 5 minutes to go fucking piss, stand up, stick your dick in something wet, make a drink, talk to others about how you wish you were 16 eating shitty Totino's pizzas, find some new music to listen to, change whats on the TV, put in a movie, make a phone call, read a forum, jerk off, check the score to a game, send a text, put laundry in the drier, etc, etc, ETC

So do just that? The game doesn't need to tell you when you can go afk. If anything it's harder to do in an open ended respawning area like in EQ than in a mc dungeon like in wow where you just tell people "k afk 5mins". But regardless, how is having forced downtime better than just choosing to take a break by yourself? Maybe after 30mins of playing you're still good to go because it's the weekend and you have nothing else to do and are actually looking forward to clearing this new area or getting that next lvl that unlocks your new super cool spell. But then, eh fuck you, take a 10mins break because the game said so.

As I said, I'm not against timesinks and downtime as a punishment is a valid timesink in my opinion. That can be having to reclear trash if you died, having to run back to your corpse, all kinds of EQ mechanics right here. What I'm against is shit like having to wait on a respawn to instantly kill a placeholder until it spawns the right mob so you can maybe get the right item(I'm not against the rare mobs or rare drops, but camping is a stupid system and having rare drops on easy to kill mobs that you need to camp is even more stupid) or having to sit down on your ass for extended periods of time to regen just as a result from fighting. This is shitty downtime and shitty design. That's also why I'm not a fan of slow travelling when it's done via automated means, like gryphon path in wow from back in the days. If you want slow travel in your game that's fine, but have people RUN there. Have people dodge fucking hard mobs like roaming high lvl shit back in EQ, this made travelling kinda interesting as a timesink. Sitting on a boat or the back of a horse for 10mins with no interaction is fucking terrible on the other hand.

Malakriss · Jun 20, 2013

The timesinks and forced downtimes were a function of the static single placeholders more than anything. If any of the mobs in the room or area had a chance to pop the named there would be incentive to clear as much of the trash as you can instead of killing the minimum number of pulls and twiddling thumbs until respawn.

tad10 · Jun 20, 2013

Draegan_sl said:
But where WOW you are constantly moving through a dungeon, in EQ you're barely crawling or often enough, standing still. There's probably a nice middle somewhere in there.

Instanced dungeons suck. That is all.

They're fun the first time you run through, they're less fun the second time through, by the fifth time through all I want to do is find a camp and have mobs pulled. No dice.

I shouldn't have to run the entirety of a dungeon everytime to just to be able to face one particular boss mob for the chance of a random drop.

With respect to downtime, you're missing the whole point. It's only partly about taking a 15 minute piss break when needed. It's about not having to play DDR straight for 30 minutes. EQ was pull - combat or intense combat (if bad pull) - rest & med (for non-puller) while puller goes out to pull agaain.

If you wanted 0 downtime in EQ you could do it by playing a pulling class: monk, sk, bard. The rest of the group dealt with the pulls when they showed up and in-between pulls got to chat. That's what I mean by downtime. In a WoW dungeon you are always moving, there is no time for anyone to chat.

Now what you and Pyros and etc aren't getting is that by spacing out combat like that the group as a whole could spend a fuckton more time camping the room as in many hours. You don't feel like you just played DDR for 30 minutes (a la WoW). The intra-combat downtime rests your fingers and the enhanced social interaction builds your morale. If the puller is getting a little tired, you swap him out with someone else for a while. So all this talk about 'not playing the game' is bullshit, you actually end up spending more time playing the game when you have some combat downtime than otherwise.

rolx_sl · Jun 20, 2013

Abefroman_sl said:
I never said it would suck. I am making fun of all the nostalgic nit wits that are going to have emotional breakdowns when their precious isn't a recreation of EQ. People like you infest every single fucking MMO thread with your EQ nostalgic bullshit and you have the balls to say I'm trolling? Get a clue.

Every post is negative about how everyone will be disappointed. Your a troll. We are all discussing what we like an dislike while we wait for more concrete info. Gtfo your like all the rejects that play wow and are happy to be a dbag. People like you are why we would have a hard time having pub dungeons because you enjoy bringing people down. Like hating on the game you think your good or something at games and you know something important we don't. Ill fucking rape you scrub in any game any fps promise. Go back to wow boards and troll there.

Caeden · Jun 20, 2013

My solution that I'd fucking love even though I'm not a pvp guy. All uninstanced content including raids. But with no factions and free for all pvp (no looting though. I'm not that sadistic) if not under your guild tag.

Maybe even have alliances with a max of 3-4 guilds per alliance with destructible buildings but all gear is from mobs.

Caeden · Jun 20, 2013

My goal is fucking chaos mixed with pve. I'd want to see a war in a sandbox. Politics, betrayals, etc. like three guilds mount up to take on a mob and midfight the GM of one leaves that alliance and joins another and kill steals and rapes the other two with his new alliance. All characters are tied to an overall account legacy last name that has to be displayed. No escape from realm reputation.

Thinking GoT style backstabbing with pve mixed in as the resource. A couple items drop per kill

Itzena_sl · Jun 20, 2013

Draegan_sl said:
I have no problems if you can farm points for sub-par gear though just to help people catch up in a game or whatever, but fuck anything BiS or close to it.

So...you have no problems with WoW's point system, then?

Caeden · Jun 20, 2013

I think points are overboard in wow. Isle of quel'danas wasn't bad for that though

rolx_sl · Jun 20, 2013

Caeden_sl said:
My goal is fucking chaos mixed with pve. I'd want to see a war in a sandbox. Politics, betrayals, etc. like three guilds mount up to take on a mob and midfight the GM of one leaves that alliance and joins another and kill steals and rapes the other two with his new alliance. All characters are tied to an overall account legacy last name that has to be displayed. No escape from realm reputation.

Thinking GoT style backstabbing with pve mixed in as the resource. A couple items drop per kill

I'd be Down for sure for that I had many a great memories fighting random pop boss in abyss and fighting asmos at the same time haha.! Makes it more immersive for me if there's enemy factions fighting me for the boss too.

Draegan_sl · Jun 20, 2013

tad10_sl said:
Instanced dungeons suck. That is all.

They're fun the first time you run through, they're less fun the second time through, by the fifth time through all I want to do is find a camp and have mobs pulled. No dice.

I shouldn't have to run the entirety of a dungeon everytime to just to be able to face one particular boss mob for the chance of a random drop.

With respect to downtime, you're missing the whole point. It's only partly about taking a 15 minute piss break when needed. It's about not having to play DDR straight for 30 minutes. EQ was pull - combat or intense combat (if bad pull) - rest & med (for non-puller) while puller goes out to pull agaain.

If you wanted 0 downtime in EQ you could do it by playing a pulling class: monk, sk, bard. The rest of the group dealt with the pulls when they showed up and in-between pulls got to chat. That's what I mean by downtime. In a WoW dungeon you are always moving, there is no time for anyone to chat.

Now what you and Pyros and etc aren't getting is that by spacing out combat like that the group as a whole could spend a fuckton more time camping the room as in many hours. You don't feel like you just played DDR for 30 minutes (a la WoW). The intra-combat downtime rests your fingers and the enhanced social interaction builds your morale. If the puller is getting a little tired, you swap him out with someone else for a while. So all this talk about 'not playing the game' is bullshit, you actually end up spending more time playing the game when you have some combat downtime than otherwise.

Instanced dungeons are fine in my opinion because they allow for better customization and scripted events. But like I said, WOW dungeon design sucks. I don't mind a dungeon that my group is alone in that also respawns or reacts to what you do. Both types of gameplay have their place.

As to your downtime, there is nothing in WOW that's a 30 minute DDR gameplay. You're only right in the respect that in a WOW shit dungeon, you're constantly moving forward through the dungeon. But that's a function of WOW's trash is completely useless. Go back to TBC heroic era (and I guess CATA early heroics pre-nerf? I never played) and it's much slower.

However, you seem to think that if you were to put in natural breaks in combat where you have to sit in one place for 1-2 minutes, that your group of 5 random people will automatically start chatting with each other. You're also assuming that there will be a core group of 2-3 random people that will be playing for 2-4 hours at a time that you can switch people in and out of. Yeah, that's not happening either on a larger game scale.

That shit is niche.

Grim1 · Jun 20, 2013

rolx_sl said:
I'd be Down for sure for that I had many a great memories fighting random pop boss in abyss and fighting asmos at the same time haha.! Makes it more immersive for me if there's enemy factions fighting me for the boss too.

Aion did a lot of things right, but they also fell into the 2 faction trap. It just boggles the mind how many moronic devs jumped into that hole.

Kreugen · Jun 20, 2013

The problem with EQ style loot camps is the healer wants the drop from mob x, the tank was the drop from mob y on the other end of the zone, and the other four people all want shit from different mobs too but since they aren't the tank or the healer good fucking luck. In the days before everything was no-drop this led to the pain in the ass drama of people refusing to camp certain things unless they also got to roll on the item just to "trade" it. (ebay) But camp something that person wants and see if that same hypocritical fuck lets you roll on HIS loot.

You're probably heard me mention the 12 FBSS I camped. 9 went to casters or priests or alts. I never got one.

The end result of all this is the EQ we have today - everyone boxing their own group so they can camp the shit they want to camp without having to suck 32 cocks in a row before getting their turn.

There's a few solutions - every named drops tokens instead of loot, so it doesn't matter what you camp. More difficult named just drop more tokens. This of course has the dubious "downside" of removing much of the "fun" of RNG. You also run into the problem of having an obnoxious variety of special currency to keep track of.

The opposite approach is each named in a zone has the same drop table - but that can be frustrating if you want one drop out of the dozens of possibilities.

Combine both and you effectively have WoW instance grinding, but without the 3 hallway "dungeon" Each zone has a unique drop table + tier tokens, each tier has a token vendor.

Everything is tradeoff, of course.

Draegan_sl · Jun 20, 2013

Itzena_sl said:
So...you have no problems with WoW's point system, then?

WOW's current end game system is even more retarded with LFR, Scaling, Normal, Heroic level items that no one really cares anymore. WOW is not a modern MMORPG anymore, so it's pretty irrelevant today. To me, it has the same impact as Runescape or Wizardy 101 does. It's like trying to discuss HEX and you bring up YuGiOh.

WOW has dumbed down their systems and saturated their gameplay to reach out to as many people as possible that it's just not worth analyzing any more. It's gameplay peak was somewhere around mid-WOTLK.

Roxby · Jun 20, 2013

EQ1 forced you to get help from other people. Look at Spirit of Wolf, it was absolutely necessary, With only 3 classes getting it, you'd have to ask for help. WoW in a week you can go from 1-90 full geared without talking to one person. Why even make games like that MMO?

The game should force people to work with each other, by grouping, buffing, helping, porting, dungeons, camps, otherwise make a fucking console single player shit RPG aka Kingdom of Amalur.

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