EQ Never

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Every post is negative about how everyone will be disappointed. Your a troll. We are all discussing what we like an dislike while we wait for more concrete info. Gtfo your like all the rejects that play wow and are happy to be a dbag. People like you are why we would have a hard time having pub dungeons because you enjoy bringing people down. Like hating on the game you think your good or something at games and you know something important we don't. Ill fucking rape you scrub in any game any fps promise. Go back to wow boards and troll there.
You fucking idiot. I have posted more relevant stuff to EQ Next then you have. You'll rape me in any game or fps? LOL, what are you fucking twelve?

I'm actually looking forward to Eq Next. You would have known that if you could actually fucking read worth a shit. Thanks for proving my point about the tears btw. Continue to cry and spit on your keyboard as you get all lathered up reading this .
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
The problem with EQ style loot camps is the healer wants the drop from mob x, the tank was the drop from mob y on the other end of the zone, and the other four people all want shit from different mobs too but since they aren't the tank or the healer good fucking luck. In the days before everything was no-drop this led to the pain in the ass drama of people refusing to camp certain things unless they also got to roll on the item just to "trade" it. (ebay) But camp something that person wants and see if that same hypocritical fuck lets you roll on HIS loot.

You're probably heard me mention the 12 FBSS I camped. 9 went to casters or priests or alts. I never got one.

The end result of all this is the EQ we have today - everyone boxing their own group so they can camp the shit they want to camp without having to suck 32 cocks in a row before getting their turn.

There's a few solutions - every named drops tokens instead of loot, so it doesn't matter what you camp. More difficult named just drop more tokens. This of course has the dubious "downside" of removing much of the "fun" of RNG. You also run into the problem of having an obnoxious variety of special currency to keep track of.

The opposite approach is each named in a zone has the same drop table - but that can be frustrating if you want one drop out of the dozens of possibilities.

Combine both and you effectively have WoW instance grinding, but without the 3 hallway "dungeon" Each zone has a unique drop table + tier tokens, each tier has a token vendor.

Everything is tradeoff, of course.
I think you can do more with dynamic and personalized loot tables, randomized loot tables, random boss spawns, random event spawns inside a zone so you don't have to worry about killing just one boss or having to spend development time on making a really good currency tab to keep track of all your zone tokens.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
It's gameplay peak was somewhere around mid-WOTLK.
You mean the part of WOTLK where you could farm points for BIS gear and there were multiple difficulty levels on content?

WoW is in the best place it's been in a long time once the patches made dailies irrelevant/unneeded. Challenge mode dungeons are also cool as shit.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
EQ1 forced you to get help from other people. Look at Spirit of Wolf, it was absolutely necessary, With only 3 classes getting it, you'd have to ask for help. WoW in a week you can go from 1-90 full geared without talking to one person. Why even make games like that MMO?

The game should force people to work with each other, by grouping, buffing, helping, porting, dungeons, camps, otherwise make a fucking console single player shit RPG aka Kingdom of Amalur.
Not to defend WOW, but you're not fully geared until you are BiS which is Heroic Raids. You will definitely need help doing that.

But again, WOW has blurred the lines with all their shitty raid difficulties that people say, LFR is enough! Fuck it! and think they are now fully geared. It's dumb.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
You mean the part of WOTLK where you could farm points for BIS gear and there were multiple difficulty levels on content?

WoW is in the best place it's been in a long time once the patches made dailies irrelevant/unneeded. Challenge mode dungeons are also cool as shit.
I didn't say it was perfect. I just said it was at it's peak. I don't play WOW anymore so I have no idea what the current iteration is. But it's not good when there are four different tiers of difficulty for one raid. It's just too saturated.

That doesn't mean there are some cool things in WOW, I'm just saying it's way past it's prime.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
But again, WOW has blurred the lines with all their shitty raid difficulties that people say, LFR is enough! Fuck it! and think they are now fully geared. It's dumb.
It's not dumb, it's the future. Only a very small subset of the people who play this genre still want to do the organized raiding bit. The rest of us want to do / see all the shit we pay for every month but don't care that our plus gooder isn't the plus goodest.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
scripted events.
Tell me what scripted event was interesting the tenth time you ran that dungeon?

@Kreugan I think 12 camps and no FBSS sucks and I get your point but then again I remember my thirty+ runs to UBRS for the alchemy recipe that dropped off the General. It came up 2 or 3 times, each time I lost the roll to some asshole who was on his first or second run. Eventually I said fuck it.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
EQ1 forced you to get help from other people. Look at Spirit of Wolf, it was absolutely necessary, With only 3 classes getting it, you'd have to ask for help. WoW in a week you can go from 1-90 full geared without talking to one person. Why even make games like that MMO?

The game should force people to work with each other, by grouping, buffing, helping, porting, dungeons, camps, otherwise make a fucking console single player shit RPG aka Kingdom of Amalur.
Hopefully, EQNext will continue the forced grouping thing. A few classes could solo in early EQ and that was fine, but they also tended to be not as needed in raids. I liked that dichotomy. It was hell on the devs though with all the tons of complaint threads about it.

Hard do see SoE having the balls to create a harsh world again. The conventional wisdom seems to be that mmo players demand easy play, hand held pablum. I don't believe that is true and I think games like Dark Souls bear that out. But it is a hard sell to mmo devs who are so afraid of failure that they follow the path of least resistance and mediocrity.
 

Roxby

Lord Nagafen Raider
84
1
Not to defend WOW, but you're not fully geared until you are BiS which is Heroic Raids. You will definitely need help doing that.

But again, WOW has blurred the lines with all their shitty raid difficulties that people say, LFR is enough! Fuck it! and think they are now fully geared. It's dumb.
Yes that is true, and I haven't been BiS heroic since like WOTLK > Early Cata..
Still, having the same item look, and name just with a "raid finder" or "heroic" on it takes away all meaning to it.

It's not like the old days where if you had a unique BiS with a cool model people would notice.

Even EQ pulled that off to some extent, if you had GEBs you had gold feet, if you had full epic cleric loot you'd be full purple plate.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
It's not dumb, it's the future. Only a very small subset of the people who play this genre still want to do the organized raiding bit. The rest of us want to do / see all the shit we pay for every month but don't care that our plus gooder isn't the plus goodest.
If it's the future why is WoW losing millions of subs a quarter and considering moving to FTP?
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
If it's the future why is WoW losing millions of subs a quarter and considering moving to FTP?
Because it's old as shit and always downturns after like a month post expansion? I don't know, I'm speaking from a players perspective not an investors. Why does Everquest have like 15 actual players boxing 45 accounts when it's the shining beacon of all that is possible with a video game?
 
1,678
149
Good solution but instead of tokens .....snip
Yep perfect, and it can make use of crafters too. And by token I didn't specifically mean a token, I just meant a 'thing'. It could be a sword hilt or something, and you combine it with a blade etc. The crafter can maybe even throw an augment or rune or something in when they combine it for you too, so not only do you get your FBSS, but it has +10 dex or whatever you chose. Vanguard was supposed to be like that but crafters got screwed as the years went by to the point where not many people even bother doing it any more.


A lot of stoners and assholes and people who couldn't do it big when EQ was still a popular game. I got a druid to level 100 with like 5000 aa sometime in the last 6 months. Also the players are really terrible at games still. There was a raid encounter where the main mechanic was !!!!!! don't stand in a red circle and people were acting like it was the craziest shit anyone's ever done in a raid encounter.

Edit: also no one groups, literally 0 pugs asking in general / lfging leveling up.
Meh that's not EQ. The real EQ died in 2002 or something. The abomination that SOE keep alive with formaldehyde and electric shock therapy is not EQ and not suitable for human consumption. You wasted your time even downloading that piece of crap.

The token idea is idiotic.

Your basically saying you want to be assured with X hours you will get Y item. Might as well go roll a panda and do dailies for gear. Its the same thing.
No it's not remotely the same. Dailies are 30 minutes of pew pew pew. What I'm talking about is having a group, getting to the depths of a dungeon, breaking in to a room with feign death splitting or whatever else. And then holding that for a number of hours. Maybe over more than one session. So it's still EQ, the difference is you aren't completely in the hands of fate, so no lucky bastards will get it first drop, and no unlucky bastards will still not have it after 5 weeks.

I would rather farm a rare mob for a rare drop in a noninstanced dungeon that know, "Well, I have to sink exactly 5hrs:20 minutes into this item, then another 3.5hrs into this item". The unknown / luck / erratic nature of the drops is part of what made it exciting.
Exciting for you maybe grandpa. But ask the average player who did stuff like the Rasta or got unlucky on the Ancient Cyclops ring and ended up sat in one spot killing the same mob every 20 minutes for an entire month or something. That is something that should change.

Coming down to Lguk, seeing Frenzy empty, it pop'ing in front of you, and dropping FBSS.
The problem with that though, is that karma doesn't exist. If I wasted a whole month trying to get one item but knew I could luck out on an instant FBSS drop, that would be ok. But EQ wasn't like that. You could be unlucky 10 times in a row, and that's just a lazy / negligent design imo. That was fine in 1999, but not any more.

Without the grind, there is no excitement in hitting the level cap or attaining gear.
But the token principle is still grind. It's just that a designer can control it. So it doesn't necessarily have to give you the item after 30 minutes like in WoW. It could still require 10 hours or even 100 hours if you wanted, and top end items really should take a long time. But at least you know it's doable eventually. Theoretically in EQ, you could wait for an FBSS for 4 years and never get it.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Because it's old as shit and always downturns after like a month post expansion? I don't know, I'm speaking from a players perspective not an investors. Why does Everquest have like 15 actual players boxing 45 accounts when it's the shining beacon of all that is possible with a video game?
No. It's because people don't give a shit anymore because it's a loot pinata. I haven't played in years but I suspect a lot of people who still play, play for the Pokemon aspect which, if I understand correctly, requires acquiring rare and hard-to-find pets. Which was the point a lot of us were making - slot machines/rare spawns/etc work to engage players. I'd be interested in confirmation from current players.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
No. It's because people don't give a shit anymore because it's a loot pinata. I haven't played in years but I suspect a lot of people who still play, play for the Pokemon aspect which, if I understand correctly, requires acquiring rare and hard-to-find pets. Which was the point a lot of us were making - slot machines/rare spawns/etc work to engage players. I'd be interested in confirmation from current players.
I only end up playing in huge guilds full of random players and I can't even remember anyone ever getting achievements/mentioning Pokewow as activities they were participating in it. it's still pretty much all the old same shit leveling/dungeons/lfr/pvp.
 

darkko_sl

shitlord
231
0
I really like the politics/drama angle Caeden mentioned.

I want statues in the main city that update each week with the top players or guilds. You were the best at PVP, tradeskill, or whatever last week? You get a statue in the center of the city and a buff/prize. if you get lazy or whatever someone else gets it next week.

In addition, I want some type of encyclopedia (Warhammer had something like this iirc) that has player lists of top performers in various categories. It would also track tons of things like, who killed you and when, bestiary, lore, a notepad that I could add to, etc. It would also show the top players with kill steal complaints against them. Top 10 each week become flagged kill on sight to all players and they can be looted 1 item from their account (certain restrictions apply). Let the players police themselves to an extent. This encyclopedia would have a ton of info and be constantly evolving, allowing players to have something to do on the side during downtime.

I would also like there to only be 3-10 guild halls available in the main city. You can have smaller guild halls out of the way in the open world but the best and most useful ones go to the guilds who earn it. The top 3 in the city go to the best guilds in terms of progression, pvp, trade skills, etc. The rest of the guild halls are decided on different factors (most active, largest, etc) For example, Fires of Heaven is the best guild on the server for 4 weeks and as a result they are awarded the top guild hall in the city. But maybe they struggle with some new content and Afterlife overtakes them. Fires of Heaven receives an eviction notice and is booted to the second ranked guild hall the next day (there would be some type of auto save for items placed in the guild hall so that when FOH regains control their items appear in the same place). Obviously, there are alot of issues to be worked out and ways to make it better but I think the drama would be awesome. Also, each guild hall would have a public front area that is open to all players. This front room would include trophies, heads from raid kills, or replicas of rare weapons. These could be changed and modified by the guild to what they want to display. Say a guild had killed Rallos Zek, Tallon, and Phinny they now have the ability to display that mobs trophy in their front room. Maybe they kill a rival guild leader or officer they can display their trophy/head as well. Front rooms would also serve as the guilds marketplace where they sell their loots and wares. It would be interesting to do away with server wide auction houses and allow guilds to employ their own auction houses and let the economy evolve around that.

I have some more ideas but I gotta get back to work.

SOE, if you wanna hire me now you can :p
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
In all fairness the game is like 10 years old.
Sure, why I also don't fault EQ for losing everyone when WoW came out (and I also do not credit WoW as much as some either). Eventually people just get their taste. EQ had developed enough wear and tear not to mention a lot of frustration for many. Not say that WoW wasn't good but in all honest, I think EQ had ran its course for many and their sequel didn't pan out. WoW is 10 years old and you can feel the repetition and the rehashing of ideas. It's still a decent game but after a decade of something, its time for a change of scenery. The same will happen 8-10 years from now with whatever catches everyone's attention next. Our hope is that they improve on what we had before and I think that's going to be the challenge for the next gen of MMO'.s
 

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,378
11,962
I'm glad you qualified that with "haven't played in years" because frankly that's wrong. The heroic raid segment probably has the best overall retention but even those guys are like "seen it all". A lot of casual players are just tired of the same game. Has nothing to do with loot at all. Fuck most people stopped caring about loot in wotlk.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
It's not dumb, it's the future. Only a very small subset of the people who play this genre still want to do the organized raiding bit. The rest of us want to do / see all the shit we pay for every month but don't care that our plus gooder isn't the plus goodest.
It's the future of WOW, but not the future of the genre as we see it. Just looking at the games on the horizon, you have Wildstar who is going back to single difficulty raids of the vanilla/tbc era. You have FFXIV who god knows what the fuck they are going to do, but I very much doubt it'll be closer to what WOW is doing.

So it's really no the future as far as I can tell.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Tell me what scripted event was interesting the tenth time you ran that dungeon?

@Kreugan I think 12 camps and no FBSS sucks and I get your point but then again I remember my thirty+ runs to UBRS for the alchemy recipe that dropped off the General. It came up 2 or 3 times, each time I lost the roll to some asshole who was on his first or second run. Eventually I said fuck it.
I always loved doing Grogonim in Rift because it was fun. I always loved doing that temple event in that troll dungeon in WOW vanilla (Zul Furrack?) Shit that whole dungeon was pretty awesome. I duno, there are a lot of shitty encounters and a lot of good ones I never minded.

Any of that is better than tank and spank or easy encounters anyway, that's for sure.