I'm saying the whole argument is irrelevant because there is not context. I think it's safe to say a lot of these games are profitable to some degree.
EQ Never
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Conversely, I spent some money to open open inventory slots and one or two banks slots across a few characters. I also bought gold just to upgrade my gear on the AH. After the cost of the box I think I spent like 20-30$ over a few months of play. Worked out well for me.
Big spenders are the people who have to have all the dyes and keep buying dye packs.
Grim1
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I bought a extra character slot right after launch with real cash. Since then all of my purchases have been with in game gold I converted to gems. Mostly extra bank slots. Have a ton of them now.
I do agree they have the best F2P model. I wish the game wasn't such an instanced dungeon grind and the WvW was better. Still play it off and on though, I like their holiday events etc.
I gave rift $25 for the storm legion souls, hoping it would cause me to want to play more than 3 weeks, but it didn't work. I have no doubt the f2p/p2w model is making more than subs. I haven't played a non-sub game that I enjoyed long-term or cared about, so whether its fair or not I hear f2p and think "another bad mmo."
Grim1
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Did you ever play GW1 or GW2? What do you think of them?
Imo opinion they are some of the best mmos every produced. GW1 was one of the first B2P mmos and was hugely successful. I loved GW1, even though it was very instanced and not much like EQ. It was still an excellent game in spite of that. GW2 is a more traditional mmo compared to GW1 and also a high quality title.
F2P games can be very high quality and not P2W as GW1 proved. The quality of F2P and sub games depends more on the devs / publisher than the cash model.
Imo opinion they are some of the best mmos every produced. GW1 was one of the first B2P mmos and was hugely successful. I loved GW1, even though it was very instanced and not much like EQ. It was still an excellent game in spite of that. GW2 is a more traditional mmo compared to GW1 and also a high quality title.
F2P games can be very high quality and not P2W as GW1 proved. The quality of F2P and sub games depends more on the devs / publisher than the cash model.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Are you the dumbest motherfucker alive? I was saying 1 million subs is a huge success. I guess illiteracy explains why you shit every thread up with your retarded nonsense.
For the sake of the conversation, GW2 is not F2P, it's B2P. Small difference..
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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And you fail at reading comprehension again. Good job buddy, it's difficult to be so consistently wrong but you manage to do it.
I have to agree with Tad/Eonan on that one. WoW has redefined what is deemed "successful" and it isn't in a good way. Your game can be very, very profitable without ever seeing the 1 million mark. Unfortunately developers and players alike are so quick to label something a failure. Especially players. Truth is that most MMOs are profitable. The list of true failures is no where near as high as your average naysayer would claim. As Tad pointed out you can still make millions with only 500k. You could cut that in half if you want and still make great money. Subtract salaries and whatever from it, but after that it is pure profit.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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I read it just fine. You took offense because I pointed out Eq has "only" 500,000 subs. My point was that was a success, so obviously twice as much is definitely a success. Then you decided to say stupid shit like "$84 mil profit LOL".
Cinge
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Pretty much. It's hard to say where the blame is. Players blame the companies for trying to reach for huge numbers, but then those same players consider any game that doesn't have big numbers a failure. I think the only game I can think of that has a "good" reptutaion and that has what is now considered "low subs", is EVE and even then people seem to hate playing it but love to read about it.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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This is a good point. Freaking Asheron's Call and UO are still running and presumably making money.
I think my main beef with f2p is that things that are desirable are held out for the sole purpose of selling it as an individual feature/item. Like, that isn't mutually exclusive to the design stage. Make something awesome for the game. "Do we want to add this for free, or sell it for $3 per pop and make $100000?" Look at TF2, that shit is out of control. Like EQ1, its so long in the tooth that it's not a perfect example, but.still relevant.
The fact that these decisions are even being made somewhere frightens me and gives me little hope for games that use that model.
On the other hand, I love the Eve plex system. That is rmt done right. Put a legit system in the game for people to turn money into game power, ban the everliving shit out of people that buy from third parties. Also lets credit-card-poor [underage] have a means to play without stealing grandma's diner club card.
Categorically the best rift cleric soul to aoe with was $25 (the pack it was part of, anyways). I figure aoe'ing, a-la Everquest, would make it fun.
The fact that these decisions are even being made somewhere frightens me and gives me little hope for games that use that model.
On the other hand, I love the Eve plex system. That is rmt done right. Put a legit system in the game for people to turn money into game power, ban the everliving shit out of people that buy from third parties. Also lets credit-card-poor [underage] have a means to play without stealing grandma's diner club card.
Categorically the best rift cleric soul to aoe with was $25 (the pack it was part of, anyways). I figure aoe'ing, a-la Everquest, would make it fun.
Some quick google-fu shows a few sources that had Ultima Online at around 100,000 in 2011. Considering how small a staff they probably keep running that game I'd say UO is still making them a shit load heh.
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There have only been a few mmorpgs which folded completely.
But I think its all about perception. We are all guilty fo calling all these mmorpgs in the past 10 yrs failures, but are they really? Sure many failed to met expectations like SWTOR, but all in all there have been a very few true fails.
Fuck, even SWTOR, im betting is raking in cash. Might of even broke even by now.
But I think its all about perception. We are all guilty fo calling all these mmorpgs in the past 10 yrs failures, but are they really? Sure many failed to met expectations like SWTOR, but all in all there have been a very few true fails.
Fuck, even SWTOR, im betting is raking in cash. Might of even broke even by now.
Grim1
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I didn't play CoH but my understanding is that NCSoft canceled it because it wasn't making enough profit, even though it was profitable and somewhat more popular than many mmos still in existence. Perhap's I am wrong in that assessment but that what most people say is the case. I guess NCSoft only accepts major league players in their mmo team.
I think the incredible amount of mmos out now is a pretty good indication that they are atm machines for the companies involved, even the crappy ones.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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