EQ Never

A

Astral Projection_sl

shitlord
1,268
18
I'd like to see most of what Laura listed, except no AH, which sucks imho. No maps is also dumb and will never happen. Also add:

- Very little use of No-drop, BOP, BOE.
- No anti-train code bullshit.
- Randomize where everything spawns including bosses. Camping and content cockblocking solved.
- Throw in some public quests like WH/Rifts, but they can spawn anywhere, not just fixed locations.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Rezz_sl said:
WoW is a strictly better game if you appreciated the "game" part of EQ. If you appreciated the "social" angle of EQ, Facebook is a strictly better game. That's what I am getting at. WoW is EQ done in a better method with more emphasis on the game aspect. It maintains the social angle, but focus is set more on actually playing the game. Shitty early mechanics don't randomly make EQ a better game than anything that has come after it. As a person who has spent a considerable time within the EQ world, I feel I am qualified when I say it is inferior in most respects to modern games. There are specific parts (which I always give credit to. Can't cite the FoHguild.org/forums posts, but I have never championed shit like the two faction system or completely malleable class roles) that EQ still has somewhat near top marks for. But the vast majority of aspects to the game (combat, progression, content) have been improved upon multiple times in successor games.

When it all comes down, you probably fall into the 5-10% of the original EQ's population who really still love that very specific style of gameplay. My point is, and was, that when EQ was in its heyday, people did not have the choices they have today. And the fact we were crammed together in one game instead of 10 created the very unique experience that early EQ enjoyed. At no point was it superior in many people's eyes to the games of today, but at that specific period of time (1999-2004) it really was the only choice that most people could reliably make.

If you loved long camps, there are shitloads of Korean/Asian mmos that can fill your void with constant grinding as the only method of progression. Grinding that, as is always the case in most mmos, is superior in a group setting. Lots of time to chat with random people! If you loved raid encounters that only catered to playtime, Fuck off! EQ has that in spades and nobody but poopsockers want that shit back. Like basement dwelling type "mom, baffroom!" style nonsense. Everyone else wants their progression to at least be somewhat reliant on personal skill or the ability to hang out with skilled players, not what timezone they are in.

Your version of "better" probably falls into the realm of "games nobody wants to make."And that's ok, I'm not belittling your choice. But there are people who claim that EQ had all the answers and it really was fucking terrible in many, many ways that players of today simply can't appreciate. The Emu servers are not EQ servers of olde, nor will they ever be.
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Funny part is, companies are dropping 150-$200 million to make today's newer games that nobody wants to play. Your correct, nobody wants to make a true social MMO with a ruleset that is more difficult and time consuming, however you can't help that notice that current MMO's are having a difficult time retaining players longer then 2-4 months, because when you give a player everything they want, it also gives the players no goals since within the first 2 months they have everything they want thus no reason to continue playing.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Astral Projection_sl said:
I'd like to see most of what Laura listed, except no AH, which sucks imho. No maps is also dumb and will never happen. Also add:

- Very little use of No-drop, BOP, BOE.
- No anti-train code bullshit.
- Randomize where everything spawns including bosses. Camping and content cockblocking solved.
- Throw in some public quests like WH/Rifts, but they can spawn anywhere, not just fixed locations.
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I like no for AH too but if the world is big enough why not just limit it to a Major city and have Bazaars throughout the rest of the world?
I'm for a map just not one of those GPS locator.. I think the Map should just be a canvas and the players should do their own notations tho..
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
I miss having specific purposes... regardless if you felt they were very advantageous or not. It still added a lot to the choice, development, and even passion to your character. Every raid or even group, once a particular class came on board, they had to know what their role was or learned it. As a raiding cleric, it was understood I MGB to prep, did my part of the healing rotation, and I rez'd. No one else had that role essentially and if you did have something similar, you had to be responsible for getting your respective components for your buffs.

Additionally, think about everything you don't have to contact a player about in today's MMO's...

Finding a cleric to rez...
Finding a necro to summon...
Finding a rogue to drag...
Finding a monk to split and/or pull...
Finding a druid to port
Finding a wizard to port (to raid zone such as PoH)
Finding a shaman for a SoW
Finding a bard for a ride (Selo's)
Finding anyone for a buy or trade (referencing the auction house point made earlier)

I could probably go on and on but you get the idea... Some of these may be annoyances but that's a MMO. If I wanted a NPC or some game mechanic to complete or offer me these tasks, I would play a console RPG. I've went to bed many of times without a pull, summon, or rez. I've had to borrow money for coffins. I didn't like it but the game should be driven by the people. You want to know why people don't last one these newer MMO's? Because it is strictly reliant on the content and to be honest all MMO content sucks for the most part. There isn't a piece of content on there that we have a positive memory about that wasn't created in our minds if not for the people. EQ Epic quests come to mind. While I did some of it alone, it all culminated because I had help and good people. I think that MMO's unfairly and maybe unknowingly run into our human nature to where if we "can" just do it on our own, we will out of convenience. The thing about EQ is that it forced you to deal with people, and maybe that may not be a good thing anymore but, until that concept comes back, I have no reason to play a MMO.
 
F

Feller_sl

shitlord
5
0
I just want the game to feel like EQ did back in 1999, but that will never happen again
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Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
1,678
149
To the people calling stuff 'headaches', you can't have it both ways. For example if you were so hopeless that getting lost was a regular headache, then there is no helping you besides adding a real time map. (AKA: satnav). People like me would hate that because as soon as you add a map, it no longer feels much like a world that I'm exploring, it just feels like a game that I'm navigating through by pointing my little arrow at wherever I want to go.

What I'm saying is, if you need stuff like maps and no corpses and all that stuff, then pick one of the 50 other MMO's out there today, because they all work in a way to suit you. Even Vanguard which some of the players like to think of as hardcore, is really not. Dying is not a problem and you can just summon your corpse back to the altar you respawn at, and getting lost is pretty impossible with real time map. And of course WoW and everything else is the same or even easier. But some of us want something that is deliberately more primitive because it leaves it up to us players to take up the slack, and we like stuff like that. But we have NOTHING else to play like that. EQ Next deserves to be like that because it's EQ which gave us a taste for it in the first place.
 
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Spynx_sl

shitlord
232
0
I miss silly things like using a tree as a landmark or looking at a map I drew in pencil and then at the dirt path and sitting there for5 minutes wondering if this erase mark is that path or not
 
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Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Spynx_sl said:
I miss silly things like using a tree as a landmark or looking at a map I drew in pencil and then at the dirt path and sitting there for5 minutes wondering if this erase mark is that path or not
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Up in my closet I still have binders full of printed maps in plastic sleeves haha. I used to have the main 20 or so all taped to my wall. Remember telling someone how to get to the camp?"Just head left along the wall until you reach the giant rock sticking up out of the water. Go right, then over the hill and look for the odd looking tree. Were right next to it."
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
Zeus_sl said:
Up in my closet I still have binders full of printed maps in plastic sleeves haha. I used to have the main 20 or so all taped to my wall. Remember telling someone how to get to the camp?"Just head left along the wall until you reach the giant rock sticking up out of the water. Go right, then over the hill and look for the odd looking tree. Were right next to it."
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I had one as well. I actually found my Guide Program folders too. I think they are all gone since our move but yeah... I miss things like that as well. I'm sure people would probably explode without a map but, I would at least like to explore it so many times before it became "mapped" or even if they made exploration and map making a high level trade skill.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
While there are certain design elements that would be interesting to re-introduce in the AAA MMO market these days, there are plenty that I would hate to have again.

Things I'd be interested in adding:
1. Not exactly first person, but very close third person. Take a look at Defiance.
2. No minimap or map tracker. Perhaps a minimap that it just a shrunken map for you to look at.

Both of these add a bit more "worldly" feel to the game I think. But if you do this, you have to eliminate a quest driven system like WOW and put in a more interesting version of something GW2 did wither the event system. More in-game clues and less UI clues.

Things I would hate to see:
1. Having to rely on a specific class and a specific person to be able to continue to play the game. This means sitting around waiting for rezzes or corpse runs. That shit makes games too frustrating. I used to have time to sit around and do nothing in a game 12 years ago. Not anymore. I need to be able to log off or quit without losing hours or weeks of progress.

2. I like the idea of risk vs. reward, but it has to be tempered. I don't want to lose all of my gear if gear is the main avenue of progression and it's hard to get. I could accept losing gear if it's easier to get like Diablo/Borderlands. Losing experience is fine as long as experience is easily gotten. I would probably not include levels in a PVE designed game these days anyway. EQ was the extreme on punishment and WOW is the extreme of non-punishment. There should be somewhere in the middle that is fun with out rage-inducing quitting.

Things I'm not sure about:

1. No Action Houses - I love the idea of quaint player driven auctions using chat channels but at the end of the day, fuck that really. I don't have enough time in my day to sit around the computer trying to sell something. But I agree that BoP can gtfo.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Draegan_sl said:
While there are certain design elements that would be interesting to re-introduce in the AAA MMO market these days, there are plenty that I would hate to have again.

Things I'd be interested in adding:
1. Not exactly first person, but very close third person. Take a look at Defiance.
2. No minimap or map tracker. Perhaps a minimap that it just a shrunken map for you to look at.

Both of these add a bit more "worldly" feel to the game I think. But if you do this, you have to eliminate a quest driven system like WOW and put in a more interesting version of something GW2 did wither the event system. More in-game clues and less UI clues.

Things I would hate to see:
1. Having to rely on a specific class and a specific person to be able to continue to play the game. This means sitting around waiting for rezzes or corpse runs. That shit makes games too frustrating. I used to have time to sit around and do nothing in a game 12 years ago. Not anymore. I need to be able to log off or quit without losing hours or weeks of progress.

2. I like the idea of risk vs. reward, but it has to be tempered. I don't want to lose all of my gear if gear is the main avenue of progression and it's hard to get. I could accept losing gear if it's easier to get like Diablo/Borderlands. Losing experience is fine as long as experience is easily gotten. I would probably not include levels in a PVE designed game these days anyway. EQ was the extreme on punishment and WOW is the extreme of non-punishment. There should be somewhere in the middle that is fun with out rage-inducing quitting.

Things I'm not sure about:

1. No Action Houses - I love the idea of quaint player driven auctions using chat channels but at the end of the day, fuck that really. I don't have enough time in my day to sit around the computer trying to sell something. But I agree that BoP can gtfo.
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All of your ideas are the very reason MMO's suck today. Unless were talking veeshan's peak, worst case scenario, you have to ask(SHOCK, actually, TALK to another player haha) a high level, or do a /who all, find someone in the zone that you remember seeing close to your camp and have them jet over and rez ya. There's nothing wrong with a stricter death penalty. If you reduce, or remove the death penalty as games have these days, it also removes that excitement or exhilaration when you kill a named, or a boss mob or hell, even just GETTING to the camp could be frikkin scary.

All to often I find myself missing the holy trio. In EQ, everyone had a job that they did very well that in most cases, other classes couldn't replace. Track, rez, sow, summon corpse, ch, ice comet, port, rez, buff etc...In todays game, every class in the game can do just about everything. They don't need anyone else. And since the leveling curve is so relaxed, most players can simply solo through from 1-80 no problem. No need to group, or talk to anyone or ask for help.....you can do it all yourself. Where's the multiplayer in that?

While I realize EC isn't going to come back, buying and selling is way to fucking easy these days. My wife told me in GW2, she can sell directly from her bags. Doesn't even have to go to a special zone anymore. That's fucking excessive. Again, were removing the multiplayer from the game. Another example of simplifying a game to the point that communication isn't even necessary anymore.

Maps, my love/hate relationship. I admit I use my maps all the time now, but I can still nearly close my eyes and find my way through any of the first 45 or so zones in EQ. I'm somewhat of a purist in that I believe that's how it should be. If you form a group and are heading to "x" camp, everyone should know how to get there. When someone is shouting LFG and you tell them to come to court yard or the hand room, and they say, "Where is that?", then they shouldn't even be joining a hand room group haha. Don't get me wrong, being a wizzy it was easy for me to gate back to the entrance and show them the way, and I did it hundreds of times, but today, no one has a clue without the map. People should learn to think for themselves at least a little bit.
(P.S. I never did find my way to bird city from the bridge in south karana in any sort of timely manner. So the truth is, some zones do need maps haha)
 
S

Spynx_sl

shitlord
232
0
Muligan_sl said:
I had one as well. I actually found my Guide Program folders too. I think they are all gone since our move but yeah... I miss things like that as well. I'm sure people would probably explode without a map but, I would at least like to explore it so many times before it became "mapped" or even if they made exploration and map making a high level trade skill.
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Think even with the terrain that is going to be changing all the time that certain classes rangers druids could "mark" territory or locations somewhat like Assassins Creed where you go into track mode and you can see previous steps etc. Druids could call upon animals for directions through a forest and depending on faction with rabbits of the grove if you will they could lead you through or astray
 
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Hinadurus_sl

shitlord
131
0
After spending time with gw2 I feel I much prefer the holy trinity. I like having distinct classes with specific roles instead of just a mish mash of dps trying to fumble through a fight to survive. EQ had such a great lineup of classes and when someone would join your group or guild you got excited about what they were going to contribute to your collective efforts. It gave your character an identity and people began to respect what you were capable of and how well you performed your role in relation to others of the same class.

WoW even had a pretty good lineup, you could recognize good tanks and healers almost right off the bat in a group. I appreciated good tanks because it made the crawls quicker and the repair bills lower. Or the healers who could handle when shit went downhill or save the noob in the group from biting the dust.

My hope is that EQNext will borrow from EQ and WoWs class design. I feel that is the strongest attribute of both games.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Hinadurus_sl said:
My hope is that EQNext will borrow from EQ and WoWs class design. I feel that is the strongest attribute of both games.
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I have ZERO hope for EQ Next. They are going to crap out probably the worst game design we've ever seen. Not to mention it's sure to be loaded with micro-transactions. Raping it's customers is Sony's specialty.
 
Randin

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,924
875
I'm not a huge fan of the holy trinity; I feel like making it so all classes need to fall neatly into one of three categories is overly limiting on class design, and contributes to the artificial feeling that so many MMOs have. The problem with gw2 is that it goes to far in the other direction: rather than each class falling into one of three roles, they tried to make it so that every class can perform every role, which is just as artificial, and perhaps even more limiting in class design. Both systems end up just as beholden to the concept to the trinity, they just approach it from opposite directions.

I'm not sure how it would be done, but I feel like there's got to be a way to move beyond the trinity entirely, making each class its own unique thing, and not being created to fit neatly into one cookie cutter role (or all of them), with the group dynamics changing radically (and yet, still being viable) depending on what classes you have in the group.
 
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Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Laura_sl said:
1. Same EQ Theme with various races to choose from, not just a few, with their own unique starting areas (Dark Elves, Ogres, Trolls, Humans, Halflings..etc)
2. First Person View (EQ was FPV, how many AAA FPV MMOs we have now?)
3. Slow Paced Combat (More Tactical/Resource Management/Strategic than Whack-A-Mole twitchy 1, 2, 3, 4 attack rotation)
4. Freedom (No Hand Holding, Not Quest Driven)
5. Faction System (You kill a creature, you get +faction towards some factions and -faction towards others)
6. Immersion (Night is dark, NO maps I miss getting lost, Sense Heading, Languages, little things like Alcohol Tolerance, food and water..etc)
7. Ability to attack ANYTHING including your trainer and city guards
8. Big Huge Non Instanced Dungeons (I miss trains, I miss being able to stumble upon a group of adventurers in my way in a dungeon)
9. Harsher Death Penalty (I miss being afraid to die)
10. The Unpredictable nature (Some spell effects have no guaranteed duration, Spells Fizzle, Misses)
11. Group Encourage (in a world of Solo-Forced content because of Quests and Storylines, I NEED grouping where it matters from a very early level)
12. No Auction Houses (I want to interact with players, AH is another distraction from player-to-player interaction... I am sick and tired of searching an in-game "website" very conveniently to find the item I have with a discount and I add it to my cart........)
13. Real Itemization, no more this generic crappy WoWish itemization (Diablo 2 actually) with VERY predictable patterns. I want odd variations of items, I want something more personalized and individually designed like Fungi Tunic, Circlets of Shadows, Efreet Boots, Jounreyman Boots, Swords of Ykesha...etc.
14. No insta-traveling unless it's community/player-interdependence based (like Druid and Wizard teleportations).

If the MMO has at least 80% of the above mentioned, it is a true EQ sequel to me. If you find an MMO like this I'll pay 2 years subscription upfront.

The reason why I don't play EQ Live is because EQ live is NOTHING like EQ Classic. It's a whole new different game, mutated.
I did play P1999 and had a blast. It was at a time where new games get released and I BUY them but don't feel motivated to play them. I know this is my personal taste and personal opinion but God Damn I know what I want. I loved SWTOR and wanted to play it (I have the collector's edition) but the reason why I couldn't motivate myself to login is this "damn... I can't handle doing a story and listening to voice over... god I wish I can just cope with the pain that it inflicts on me so I can enjoy the game itself." Story lines and quest-driven content and soloing bores me to tears.

However, I'm also looking for a game that "expands" on what EQ was (not necessary an exact copy, even though I would definitely play an exact copy with improved Interface and graphics GLADLY). But it would great if they keep the CORE philosophy of what made EQ the game it was and just improve on it, expand on it. Not to be dumped down like in World of Warcraft and every game that plays like it.
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Okay, next question: Who's going to pay for the development of such a game?
 
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