EQ Never

Teekey_sl said:

We understand just fine. It's you who can't seem to grasp that the market is too small for it to be worth their time.

And just for pointing that out, you attack us and doubt we played EQ. It's comical, really.

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In your opinion. And plenty of facts have shown that your opinion is shit.

Rezz_sl said:

Better question. To be considered a true sequel, what would you modify in the realm of mechanics (be specific) so that it isn't the same game with a new graphics engine and different zones, but a sequel that improves upon the original. Longer camps? Longer respawns? What is your version of improvement?

That's the problem. Lots of people who go "rah rah EQ sequel has never been made!" tend to say they want a sequel is the same but better, but then cites modern games that have improved upon EQ's design as not being better and not being the same. So it is honestly -really- confusing to people who have played VG and EQ and every other game when they claim that the true sequel doesn't exist and that newer games are all crap and yada yada. Not saying that people's opinion is wrong, but when someone says "You guys want EQ with better graphics" then lots of those targeted flip out and say all kinds of fun words involving carebears and pussified games and ADD and on and on. Without ever really saying how they would improve upon EQ's model in most cases unless they are purely cosmetic changes. Was EQ -really- perfect in every way for you guys... like... really?

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I don't think or claim EQ was perfect at all and I'm not really asking for EQ reskinned, but I likely ride the line of being lumped into both crowds depending on who's judging. I certainly don't want hell levels or negative experience percentages thrown my way because I chose a specific class or race. For as much as I love the game there were some things about it that were bullshit. My biggest issue with modern MMOs tends to be that they're designed around getting to max level in a very, very streamlined path and the ability to do it solo. Also, loot bloat to the point that every shitty dagger that falls has a fancy name. These issues might be addressed in EQN and if so, great.

gogojira_sl said:

.But fuck it all, I'm actually one of the rare people that dreams about EQ3, while still being incredibly excited about EQN. And who knows, maybe EQN will actually hit of a few of those things I'm longing for.

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Would read again.

gogojira_sl said:

You can reduce what made EQ1 great to sound like complete shit just like you can do with any other game.

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I don't think anything I listed is what made EQ great, actually. EQ was great because it immersed you into the world, it was challenging - the world felt dangerous, but still very rewarding. Nothing I listed has to be present to recreate that. That's my point. You can still evoke the same feelings that EverQuest created without having an auto-attack only combat system, an entire world of static camps, etc.

gogojira_sl said:

I want an MMO that emphasizes group play and dependency on each other. This would require a rigid class system which I'm in favor of (it creates a connection with the class that a mix of everything can't)

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Why can't EverQuest Next have this with their current system? Is your sole idea of 'depend' mean someone is getting hit and someone is healing them? That seems rather boring. It sounds a lot more fun to possibly go up against an encounter where you have to figure out how to overcome it, even through nontraditional means. Use Gravity Flux to dig a hole and then have your friend knock the mob into it. Isn't this the type of stuff EverQuest was about? Do people really want boring tank and spank forever?

gogojira_sl said:

I want a completely non-instanced world that'd position certain rare loot to be incredibly hard to obtain. This would mean that I wouldn't be getting top tier armor because, but I'm OK with that and certain loot would make people's jaw drop due to rarity.

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How about we make loot hard to get because mobs arefucking hard, not because it requires camping for 12 hours that has to be competed for against thousands of other people. That's an accomplishment in patience, but that's about it.

gogojira_sl said:

I want an emphasis on the journey to the end, not the "our game starts at 50" bullshit. This what I loved about EQ, even if it's technically a theme park or whatever you want to label it, there were so many places to start and directions to turn that it felt limitless (even if it was eventually boiled down to a golden path).

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I guess we'll have to see how it turns out. But it sounds kind of fun just to play the game and now have to worry about any path at all. You just explore and adventure and you can progress as you do it. To me, that sounds more like what the original EverQuest was about - going out an adventuring.

gogojira_sl said:

I don't want to write a book defending my position, but the idea that Vanguard proves anything is shit and the idea that some emu server that everyone swears is drama central is the answer to all my hopes and dreams is shittier. While I'd love to see a proper EQ3, I'm not so delusional to think it's actually happening no matter how badly I want it to.

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The problem is people have such narrow specifics of what make their ideal game, someone is bound to be disappointed. You just made a decent list, and I'm sure someone completely disagrees with every point.

I don't think most people are looking for a true EQ clone or expected EQ Next to be just that. Players are just asking that developers not abandon every fucking thing that makes an mmo worth playing. Developers these days operate at another extreme where everything is convenient and readily accessible. Seriously, I don't think there's been a worthwhile MMO in almost 10 years. That says a lot about the "mmo market" that you guys claim is so evolutionary.

supertouch_sl said:

I don't think most people are looking for a true EQ clone or expected EQ Next to be just that. Players are just asking that developers not abandon every fucking thing that makes an mmo worth playing. Developers these days operate at another extreme where everything is convenient and readily accessible. Seriously, I don't think there's been a worthwhile MMO in almost 10 years. That says a lot about the "mmo market" that you guys claim is so evolutionary.

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I think the better question is why does the MMO dev community keep making face roll WoW clones that fail? Why do people think that another one wont? There is plenty of proof that casual play games fail all the time. WoW is the only exception.

And the clueless twits who claim that there isn't a market for hardcore games ignore EvE and Darksouls like the plague. Hey, if they love the casual crap so much then they should go play the bazzilion failures that exist to this day. Claiming there isn't a market for hardcore games and then ignoring the fact that casual games fail every day is the height of idiocy.

supertouch_sl said:

I don't think most people are looking for a true EQ clone or expected EQ Next to be just that. Players are just asking that developers not abandon every fucking thing that makes an mmo worth playing. Developers these days operate at another extreme where everything is convenient and readily accessible. Seriously, I don't think there's been a worthwhile MMO in almost 10 years. That says a lot about the "mmo market" that you guys claim is so evolutionary.

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I was gonna say no one claims the mmo market is evolutionary, then I thought about it and realized that evolve is exactly what it's done.

Grim1_sl said:

I think the better question is why does the MMO dev community keeps making face roll WoW clones that fail? Why do people think that another one wont? There is plenty of proof that casual play games fail all the time. WoW is the only exception.

And the idiots who claim that there isn't a market for hardcore games ignore EvE and Darksouls like the plague. Hey, if they love the casual crap so much then they should go play the bazzilion failures that exist to this day.

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The issue is there are features that clearly suck and serve no purpose but to punish you, not for playing badly but for playing at all. Sitting on your ass waiting for something to happen at a spawn, Being incapable of progressing because you play a social class and there are no open groups, these are game killers, These are things that dark souls and eve have none of but that EQ was based entirely on. Eve and dark souls are not relatable to everquest in any way because the thing that makes those games hardcore is high difficulty and pvp, and the thing that makes everquest hardcore isn't the act of playing the game it's the act of sitting through not getting to play the game. Everquest wasn't difficult in any way and its features put in to a new game wouldn't make for a difficult game. The only thing that relates to eve in everquest is the death penalty and that's it. You'll come back with some angry bullshit but you will still be wrong. There is nothing hard about hoping a percent chance of failure doesn't happen. There's nothing hard about waiting for your puller to split what was supposed to be a linked encounter with a bug, in fact that's easier than most games. You know you are wrong if you disagree with this simply because every single one of you make me a new EQ faggots was talking about how you hate actually having to participate in combat. Every single one of you wanted to be a able to half ass your night away grinding in one room, auto attacking and sometimes SOMETIMES actually casting a spell.

That has been answered many times. And you refuse to acknowledge that. You can have a hardcore game with modern features.

The real issues is that there are pussies who really don't want to play anything other than WoW, and those same pussies then tell everyone we have to do the same. Well, we don't like crappy face roll games. There are a bazzilion to chose from. Go play one of those and stop being a pussy and asking for another one.

Especially since the facts are that face roll casual games are doomed to failure. That is their track record and it isn't going to change.

Grim1_sl said:

That has been answered many times.

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You've said this phrase many times but it's pretty unclear where you actually solved or answered anything. I'd probably have to go back to the FoH forums to find you actually participating in discussion instead of brushing it off like you actually contributed.

Carl_sl said:

You've said this phrase many times but it's pretty unclear where you actually solved or answered anything. I'd probably have to go back to the FoH forums to find you actually participating in discussion instead of brushing it off like you actually contributed.

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Lol, go back and read this thread again from the beginning. You are wrong. And since you are wrong, you should probably just go back to your casual fuck wit game and face roll your way to winning.

Face roll games are doomed to failure. Why do you want another one?

Carl_sl said:

You've said this phrase many times but it's pretty unclear where you actually solved or answered anything. I'd probably have to go back to the FoH forums to find you actually participating in discussion instead of brushing it off like you actually contributed.

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That's their strategy. Make statements without any factual backing, then call everyone else a casual pussy.

Bleeding edge World of Warcraft raiding is more difficult than EverQuest raiding ever was. To say you can't have hardcore in an MMO with modern features is just a joke.

tad10_sl said:

Nope. Asked this specifically at SOELive.

Response: Game Design is for people to multiclass. If you give advantage to single classers you blow up the whole design.

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What they should do is make Tier 5 of each of the 8 starting classes unlock 8 more focused versions of that class.

Warrior-Warlord
Cleric-Prelate
Rogue-Assassin
Wizard-Arch Mage
Ranger-Hunter
Paladin-Crusader
Shadowknight-Darklord
Druid- Naturewalker


Also think the hardest classes to get should have wildcard type ability slots.

If a rogue has 1 Utility, 2 Offence, 1 movement. Then the hardest to unlock rogue type class should have something like 3 Offence and 2 free for all slots.

Teekey_sl said:

That's their strategy. Make statements without any factual backing, then call everyone else a casual pussy.

Bleeding edge World of Warcraft raiding is more difficult than EverQuest raiding ever was. To say you can't have hardcore in an MMO with modern features is just a joke.

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No, that's YOUR strategy. You have no proof that a hardcore game like EQ3 would fail. But we have tons of face roll mmos that have failed to show as proof.

So I ask again. There are a ton of casual mmo failures out there. Why do you want another one?

Teekey_sl said:

That's their strategy. Make statements without any factual backing, then call everyone else a casual pussy.

Bleeding edge World of Warcraft raiding is more difficult than EverQuest raiding ever was. To say you can't have hardcore in an MMO with modern features is just a joke.

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A lot of people misuse the term strawman, but this is the definition of it.

I don't think anyone here has ever argued that you can't mix "hardcore" and modern features. In fact, I think that's what most are in favor of.

supertouch_sl said:

A lot of people misuse the term strawman, but this is the definition of it.

I don't think anyone here has ever argued that you can't mix "hardcore" and modern features. In fact, I think that's what most are in favor of.

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Yeah. I've even had that argument with him just a couple days ago and he conveniently forgets it now. It's pathetic.

Grim1_sl said:

No, that's YOUR strategy. You have no proof that a hardcore game like EQ3 would fail. But we have tons of face roll mmos that have failed to show as proof.

So I ask again. There are a ton of casual mmo failures out there. Why do you want another one?

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I never claimed it would fail. But I don't think it would be a success like League of MineQuest will be.


You want me to go back and read earlier posts in the thread? I found one where you actually make sense and aren't just frothing at the mouth to call everyone a casual pussy.

Grim1_sl said:

There are a whole lot more neckbeards on the interwebs now than there were in 1998. So in qwerty's defense there probably is a niche market for a EQ remake with modern graphics.

BUT..

You will never convince the money guys to go for it. Like it or not, the cold truth is that investors care about one thing, and that is maximising their profits. Given a choice they will always put their money into the project with the most potential for return. And EQ redone doesn't sell in their eyes.

You can argue that EQ redone with modern graphics would sell extremely well but that is a leap of faith that investors are not willing to take. That may change in the future though. So keep fighting the good fight, some day your dream may come true.

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tad10_sl said:

The main issue are will the combat/class system work - I have my doubts right now. And even if it does, the combat system still has the action-y/no downtimeproblems that will likely drive me away. But as I said, I think everyone will enjoy it for a while - just treat it like Diablo.

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You've brought up lack of downtime a few times here, but have they actually said anything about what downtime will look like? I don't recall it coming up in any of the panel videos.

Wouldn't be terribly surprised if it turns out to be short downtime, and we're certainly not going back to the five+ minute downtimes of EQ, but I'm just not aware of any definitive statements about it.