EQ Never

M

Merquise_sl

shitlord
32
0
EQ was a real mans game. Just start up on the classic servers. You will die to the decaying skeleton because you can't hit it with your dagger.. Items were legendary, people would inspect you and say OMG YOU ARE AWESOME!

WoW is sugar coated for the masses of Blizzard fanboys, I recently went back to WoW and quit very quickly when I realized all I needed to do was login once a week, hit random queue raid/dungeon and get my points then log out.

I still have friends that I talk too, who I played played EQ with. WoW on the other hand, nameless sea of ignorant noobs.

The industry needs to bring this kind of logic back, make people walk places in MMOs, make dungeons with scary shit that if you died you may lose a lot of exp at least. Also rewards that are very good and identifiable to everyone. eg. a Ykesha sword! (Anyone see Vikings? The Sacrifice sword was 100% clone of a ykesha)
 
F

Fingz_sl

shitlord
238
0
LFR and LFD were made for people who couldn't wouldn't join a guild. Blizz wants you to join a guild. Why? If you're in a guild, it's easier to retain you as a subscriber.

But what happens to all those people who don't have time or social skills or people who want to play WoW as a single player game? They get LFR/LFD.

It's all about more options.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
12,854
19,856
I can attest to people with lack of social skills using the group finder type stuff

Shouldn't learning how to socially network be part of the game?
 
S

Slick Willey_sl

shitlord
7
0
Merquise_sl said:
EQ was a real mans game. Just start up on the classic servers. You will die to the decaying skeleton because you can't hit it with your dagger.. Items were legendary, people would inspect you and say OMG YOU ARE AWESOME!

WoW is sugar coated for the masses of Blizzard fanboys, I recently went back to WoW and quit very quickly when I realized all I needed to do was login once a week, hit random queue raid/dungeon and get my points then log out.

I still have friends that I talk too, who I played played EQ with. WoW on the other hand, nameless sea of ignorant noobs.

The industry needs to bring this kind of logic back, make people walk places in MMOs, make dungeons with scary shit that if you died you may lose a lot of exp at least. Also rewards that are very good and identifiable to everyone. eg. a Ykesha sword! (Anyone see Vikings? The Sacrifice sword was 100% clone of a ykesha)
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Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
Dumar_sl said:
As I've said for almost a decade now here, elsewhere, and the reason I got blackhanded on FOH:

This industry has regressed to such a level of shit the past 10 years. This isn't some subjective opinion about 'what makes an mmo an mmo'; it's an objective analysis based on the potential type of gameplay afforded by this medium, compared to the type of gameplay that designers actually design, which is nothing but pseudo-single/multiplayer mini-dungeons dictated by marketing heads and window-dressed on a server in order to collect sub fees. That's the reality such as it is, not subjectivity, not rose-colored glasses, but the truth. That's *it* as it is, without euphemisms such as accessibility sprinkled on top. The fact of the matter is that these 'game designers' are designing to appeal to every living, breathing human under the sun, from 80yr old granny, to sally soccer mom, to tiny timmy, to stay-at-home dad, to hardcore joe. They know, based on their little marketing heads, that if they do this, they can design in such a way to maximize retention of most of these demographics. This is garbage design, and it should be called out by all of us.

Do you think it's a good mmo design paradigm to sit in Orgrimmar all day and queue for dungeons, pvp, and lfg raids, grouping with people you never talk to and will likely never or interact with again. Is that good design in any objective sense of mmo design? Cue Zehn or The Black Hand to chime in about how 'I have a choice to interact if I want to' bullshit. No. I don't have a choice because it wasn't designed that way; it was designed for a single and multiplayer experience, not an mmo one. And it was done to maximize the amount of money they could make, not for any gameplay reason outside of being accessible to every single human alive.

Do you think it's a good mmo design paradigm to homogenize and make generic every single class and role in the game? Is it good design to equally homogenize every single piece of loot based on a formula? I can't fucking tell you the name of any item my characters had post-TBC because it didn't fucking matter whatsoever.

The stories about EQ above still hold true, whether you played over a decade ago or you play it now. It's a better designed mmo because it involves people with people, and through that involvement and interaction, it's what makes the game worth playing - it's what makes it massively. Apparently, WoW designers are too busy snorting coke off hookers' asses down on Newport to understand what mmo design is anymore.

But hey - it's cool coz Bobby got his zillion dollar raise.
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I agree with your comment on poor design but I don't think that this is simply exclusive to WoW (though i'm sure this is only your example to validate your point) but if you think about it, sitting in a single zone (city) and just "queuing up" is pretty much the experience. I can group, pvp, and even raid by simply "interacting" with a menu and get thrown in with a random group of people. How massive is that world? I still think they are defying the genre and becoming more of a RPG/single player experience than anything.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
Fingz_sl said:
LFR and LFD were made for people who couldn't wouldn't join a guild. Blizz wants you to join a guild. Why? If you're in a guild, it's easier to retain you as a subscriber.

But what happens to all those people who don't have time or social skills or people who want to play WoW as a single player game? They get LFR/LFD.

It's all about more options.
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Yeah but it's more effective and even at times more rewarding due to that effectiveness. Thus the masses take that route because you get outpaced otherwise. My point is why reward this "option" if it is simply an alternative? If you don't fit with the scheme of the game why should I be punished? I played basketball at just about every level possible outside of professionally. I understand the game and when I play 2K games I have an advantage over someone who knows nothing about the game because i'm running plays, substitutions, etc. to grant me that advantage. However, I played very little football so i'm not going to go out and get Madden and expect to play at the skill level to someone that has played football their entire life and understand when to play certain types of defenses and run a specific type of offense. If that is not your type of game or if you do not feel compelled or comfortable enough to grow in that area of your personality then why are you playing a game based on thousands or even millions of people playing together to achieve common goals? That may seem harsh and that's fine to provide these options but I personally feel there are no other options but to play the casual man's way. I don't buy it's an option but a larger net. There are more paying customers that prefers this method.
 
M

Merquise_sl

shitlord
32
0
Muligan_sl said:
Yeah but it's more effective and even at times more rewarding due to that effectiveness. Thus the masses take that route because you get outpaced otherwise. My point is why reward this "option" if it is simply an alternative? If you don't fit with the scheme of the game why should I be punished? I played basketball at just about every level possible outside of professionally. I understand the game and when I play 2K games I have an advantage over someone who knows nothing about the game because i'm running plays, substitutions, etc. to grant me that advantage. However, I played very little football so i'm not going to go out and get Madden and expect to play at the skill level to someone that has played football their entire life and understand when to play certain types of defenses and run a specific type of offense. If that is not your type of game or if you do not feel compelled or comfortable enough to grow in that area of your personality then why are you playing a game based on thousands or even millions of people playing together to achieve common goals? That may seem harsh and that's fine to provide these options but I personally feel there are no other options but to play the casual man's way. I don't buy it's an option but a larger net. There are more paying customers that prefers this method.
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That is true, and ultimately why WOW has evolved into this type of game. WoW originally was just like Everquest, you had to find groups on your own, and physically travel to dungeons.

I believe the problem is we almost have a different genre now. Which turned many old school players away. WoW became almost an action twitch(cataclysm instant death dungeons) based RPG singleplayer with a network connection to join random dungeons/raids.

It just doesn't seem like an on MMORPG type like Everquest was. Everquest seemed more epic, with the trains, non-instanced dungeons, raids, and random pop mobs it forced people to interact and have penalties for not following the rules. I remember when a member of a low guild on my server trained me and stole my named mob, I told his guild master and they booted him. WoW doesn't have anything like that, you get need rolled ninja'd by some kiddy who you never see again. Also, in random raids you get some random generic piece of loot.

Sadly to say, even if a game was released just like EQ, I probably couldn't play it, since when I did play EQ I was college and had plenty of time. Now with the family I'm doomed to casual gaming! my arguments are invalid!
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,379
11,963
But at least you did play a mans game at one time! I know what you meant but that bit of hyperbole cracked me up like a DnD player going off about the machismo of his level 12 wizard.
 
M

Merquise_sl

shitlord
32
0
I put on my robe and wizard hat..

It seems like EQ is for the more patience type of person. Newer MMOs are all about instant gratification.
 
I

Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
etchazz_sl said:
or, since it's 2013, you could easily make a dungeon like lower guk or sebilis only 3 times larger, enough to support 10 groups or more, and make 10 or more dungeons just like them to spread out the population even more still. it's not very complicated, the industry just seems to think that it is.
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Content creation has becomemoredifficult over time, not less. Players expect levels of polish and engagement that would make Verant-as-was run screaming for the hills in terror.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
Once we turn into a star trek utopia world not driven by money we might get something like EQs designs but refined from somewhere. Likely a holodeck, and let me go on record here saying I'm ready for that! While money calls the shots there's just no way to something like EQ being remade with acceptable quality to pass as a product of this decade. If you want the product from 2 decades ago the various EMUs are the only option since even the live EQ isnt the EQ you want anymore.

So about EQ:N, I didnt take the information about that faction system as something like Neverwinter, though it of course might be. To me if I have to sum it up it would be "you can do whatever you like but there will be consequences, good and bad" ... which pretty much is the faction system of EVE Online or EQ1, refined. Killing the treants meant less safe ports (or picking evil at creation), farming dorfs meant you didnt shop in Kaladim, etc, picking the wrong deity made you KoS in some place you considered safe (lvl 5 erudite necro arriving in dark elf necro guild, wasnt as welcome as expected, had no bind...).
 
V

Vilgan_sl

shitlord
259
1
Nirgon_sl said:
I can attest to people with lack of social skills using the group finder type stuff

Shouldn't learning how to socially network be part of the game?
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What about people who just don't give a flip about trying to be predictable with playtimes anymore?

I haven't played WoW since early Cataclysm (and not seriously since BC), but the LFR possibility seems like a good match to a busier adult schedule where your free time can be unpredictable. I want my video game time to be relax time, not a commitment.
 
E

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
Itzena_sl said:
Content creation has becomemoredifficult over time, not less. Players expect levels of polish and engagement that would make Verant-as-was run screaming for the hills in terror.
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that's utter bullshit. you don't have to tie 200 shitty little collection quests into every dungeon you make. maybe if you're making a dungeon for WoW it takes longer, because you have to make sure even the blind, brain dead retard playing your game can get to the end and win, but if you're making a dungeon for a game like everquest, all you have to do is create a dungeon, drop mobs into the dungeon (with several named), space it out, and let the players have at it. there's no reason why it would be difficult to make 20 dungeons as big and as sprawling as sebilis in a game right now.
 
Skanda

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
6,662
4,506
etchazz_sl said:
that's utter bullshit. you don't have to tie 200 shitty little collection quests into every dungeon you make. maybe if you're making a dungeon for WoW it takes longer, because you have to make sure even the blind, brain dead retard playing your game can get to the end and win, but if you're making a dungeon for a game like everquest, all you have to do is create a dungeon, drop mobs into the dungeon (with several named), space it out, and let the players have at it. there's no reason why it would be difficult to make 20 dungeons as big and as sprawling as sebilis in a game right now.
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Dragon Age 2 took a page from your design book and look how that turned out.
 
D

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
I think the future will be player created content. Instead of a dungeon your storming someones castle grounds created by them. They have placed the NPCs and created the castle. Then some sort of payment should be made on each death etc. With the player who owns the dungeon having to invest items that can be looted at each boss. The harder the dungeon the better the items that can be won from it have to be. Every dungeon has a certain amount of 'monsters/traps' that can be put in. Every monster costs a point and you have a certain amount of points that can be used. Unlimited content created by the player.

Possible have prime spots up for rent and big guilds war for the spots. Whoever wins the war for the week gets the dungeon plot for that week. I'd play the shit out of this game.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
Why not just whoever wins the war, keeps the castle until someone stronger comes and takes it? As a bonus you can see the losers driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
Itzena_sl said:
Content creation has becomemoredifficult over time, not less. Players expect levels of polish and engagement that would make Verant-as-was run screaming for the hills in terror.
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This is not true if you are talking about engaging, social & competitive content. It is true if you're talking about graphics, effects & game systems.

The problem is that most games prioritize the latter. EQ was great because of its social hooks mainly... sure it had this awesome immersive world with 3D graphics but eventually newer and cooler looking games came out, EQ still remained relevant for a very long time. Almost all successful games rely on the social experience. You do not need fancy graphics or convoluted game systems to create addictive & engaging content.

EverQuest has some really great content. I actually think most games deliver much less than EQ ever did. Re-release EQ with updated graphics and it would thrive. I kinda wish EQ Next would just carbon-copy EQ design but use the latest tech to create a better looking (and more efficient running) world. EQ became so bloated it always ran like shit.
 
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