EQ Never

Caeden_sl said:

My goal is fucking chaos mixed with pve. I'd want to see a war in a sandbox. Politics, betrayals, etc. like three guilds mount up to take on a mob and midfight the GM of one leaves that alliance and joins another and kill steals and rapes the other two with his new alliance. All characters are tied to an overall account legacy last name that has to be displayed. No escape from realm reputation.

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You're describing Ultima Online.

I collected human female heads of the people I murdered and stored them in a chest in my house. And I put my valuables under them so when thieves snuck behind my table wall when moving one table to get through (happened more often than you'd think, my house was right beside Britain), they'd have to look through those heads to find the good stuff if they didn't get caught.

Not one feature of WoW comes even fucking REMOTELY close to that level of interaction. And this was in 1998.

Please guys, tell me more about how games have progressed.

Abefroman_sl said:

I don't see why we can't have instanced and non instanced dungeons. No reason why both can't both exist in a game. Sometimes I like just running a Mcdungeon for 15 min or so. I also miss the /ooc camp checks and working your way down with a group in Sebelis.

The major problem with non instanced dungeons is going to be how to make a non instanced dungeons viable without long respawn timers and regen. If a group can kill every single camp themselves, they aren't going to share. They will just go from camp to camp monopolizing the dungeon. Maybe make the dungeon extremely large with a lot of trash where you wouldn't want to move from a camp once you got there because it wouldn't be possible.

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I hate instanced dungeons but will admit that for certain specific things they work okay - such as LOTRO's class quest instances. I'll note that non-instanced dungeons can have triggered events (c.f. Vanguard) so instancing is not a requirement for scripted events. Generally though I don't think their worth developer time.

As for making them viable, I don't get the comment - they were viable in EQ and in VG the only two games I can think of that had non-instanced content. Is there some counter-example I'm not aware of?

tad10_sl said:

Fuck two faction battlegrounds.

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I really hope EQ Next copies Eq's faction system. Let the natural enemies of the factions exist but give me the ability to improve or mess up my faction. Segmenting the population for raids and dungeons like WoW and so many after has done in stupid. If I want to be a wood elf that isn't KOS in Neriak then give me the option. You can even make it tough, but the option should be there.

You can even have battlegrounds where teams are put together FPS style or do your rated shit, factions be damned. If this game is really a sandbox with players having the ability to actually create battleground maps, they could be sitting on a gold mine.

Abefroman_sl said:

I really hope EQ Next copies Eq's faction system. Let the natural enemies of the factions exist but give me the ability to improve or mess up my faction. Segmenting the population for raids and dungeons like WoW and so many after has done in stupid. If I want to be a wood elf that isn't KOS in Neriak then give me the option. You can even make it tough, but the option should be there.

You can even have battlegrounds where teams are put together FPS style or do your rated shit, factions be damned. If this game is really a sandbox with players having the ability to actually create battleground maps, they could be sitting on a gold mine.

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But that would give you a choice. We can't give gamers those these days.

tad10_sl said:

As for making them viable, I don't get the comment - they were viable in EQ and in VG the only two games I can think of that had non-instanced content. Is there some counter-example I'm not aware of?

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What I am talking about is that the combat pace and style has a huge effect on the non instanced being viable. If people can kill stuff too quickly with limited downtime, then one group can basically take over the entire dungeon. That is why I said you need to make it very time consuming to get from one camp to another so you can actually have a lot of people in the dungeon. If you took WoW now and made a non instanced dungeon it wouldn't work unless it took a considerable time to kill things and move around in the dungeon. You just can't create a dungeon and slap it in the open world. You have to design around the fact that players are greedy and will want to have it to themselves.

Draegan_sl said:

It's the future of WOW, but not the future of the genre as we see it. Just looking at the games on the horizon, you have Wildstar who is going back to single difficulty raids of the vanilla/tbc era. You have FFXIV who god knows what the fuck they are going to do, but I very much doubt it'll be closer to what WOW is doing.

So it's really no the future as far as I can tell.

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Except they're all going to be vast fucking failures like every single other MMO released after WoW?

Dumar_sl said:

But that would give you a choice. We can't give gamers those these days.

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You never know. We will find out soon enough.

Itzena_sl said:

Except they're all going to be vast fucking failures like every single other MMO released after WoW?

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So you agree EQNext is OOH?

Itzena_sl said:

Except they're all going to be vast fucking failures like every single other MMO released after WoW?

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Do you ever reply to any post without snarky one liners?

tad10_sl said:

I hate instanced dungeons but will admit that for certain specific things they work okay - such as LOTRO's class quest instances. I'll note that non-instanced dungeons can have triggered events (c.f. Vanguard) so instancing is not a requirement for scripted events. Generally though I don't think their worth developer time.

As for making them viable, I don't get the comment - they were viable in EQ and in VG the only two games I can think of that had non-instanced content. Is there some counter-example I'm not aware of?

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Quite sure we'll end up with instanced zones in EQN, it just makes sense to avoid the player created drama while also using less server resources if the zones are not even active.

instances = gayer than homo love

Dumar_sl said:

You're describing Ultima Online.

I collected human female heads of the people I murdered and stored them in a chest in my house. And I put my valuables under them so when thieves snuck behind my table wall when moving one table to get through (happened more often than you'd think, my house was right beside Britain), they'd have to look through those heads to find the good stuff if they didn't get caught.

Not one feature of WoW comes even fucking REMOTELY close to that level of interaction. And this was in 1998.

Please guys, tell me more about how games have progressed.

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Only instead of being full loot and half the fucking population being afraid to go out in the open (basing that off a buddy who has played the game since launch and continues to play), I'd have zero looting off of dead corpses. The penalty would simply be the lost time.

I'd say TBC was pretty damn interactive for a PVE focused game but frankly you and I will never agree and I'm liable to disagree with you even when I agree in reality.

I'm bored as fuck im dl EQ again and about to start a level 1 if anyone is down PM me.

I wonder if people realize instances started before WoW and not because of WoW.

EQ had LDON, GoD, OoW(all before WoW released). Hell first MMO i remember with them was AO(2001).

kudos_sl said:

LDoN and GoD were all developed during WoW beta.

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Planes of Power had instances in Oct 2002, well under 2 years before WoW's release as well as before its closed beta invites and open beta as well.

Just sayin'

Lemmiwinks_sl said:

Planes of Power had instances in Oct 2002, well under 2 years before WoW's release as well as before its closed beta invites and open beta as well.

Just sayin'

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That doesn't make them any less terrible. The shitty devs don't even exploit instancing to its full potential: somewhat dynamic content, having the dungeon be different in some way each time. Hellgate sorta got into this and could've possibly pushed the genre at least a baby step forward instead of giant leaps backwards had it succeeded.

What did EQ have? Static social dungeons, static mobs. What did WoW have? Static instances, static mobs.

The latter is worse. I would rather see random people running around than have a guarantee that a static mob is up just for me, which not only doesn't make sense in the context of a massively MP world, it's a copout and a lazy bandaid to a problem that wasn't really a problem. Shitty Blizzard devs are shitty.

hey, just found this new contest for a chance to win some EQ original art:http://www.eqnforum.com/threads/eqnf...st-origin.137/

haha, I am going to make sure to come up with something good