Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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This. It's why 4X games and turn-based games are some of the few genres that are still enjoyable anymore.
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
Yea, if you are going to be part of a discussion you do have to defend your position which for like five posts in a row you didn't even attempt to do. It's clear that there are many people who think the concept of walking away from keyboard mid battle is mind numbing and nothing about what you are saying demonstrates that auto attack is anything more than a different play style yet you try to sell it as the holy graile.
Edit
To give my own take on it since I want in the discussion, the base dps abilities like sinister strike or backstabbing that you have to spam to stay at max dps are truly uninteresting, a few reactionary skills for dps plus normal non damage abilities that can be used situationally would be fine. I would rather not watch my character throughout combat though. I feel that I don't want to watch my ui the entire time either so having a fluid way of keeping up combat damage that engages without causing carpal tunnel and allowing non damage decisions to be made seems to me like the best way to cut down on the damage rotation problems add in decisions but stay away from what sounds basically like waiting for the fight to be over.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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And this is why we can't have nice things. You completely missed the point, it's not that you kill every mob with auto-attack, it's that if you've got a mob you can kill with aa, you can hit the mob and then do something else for a minute or two (grab a beer, answer a phone call, take a dump) instead of spending every second you play the game with your eyes glued to the screen and your hands pressing buttons.
And it's not even glued tothe game; it's glued to the UI. That's the main problem with the arguments attacking slower combat - any twitch play in an RPG (not an FPS like Quake) will result in hotkey overload. If the majority of the fucking screen is displaced by hotbars, timers, and other dumbshit, it's no longer about attacking or killing a creature in a world; it's become Matlab with a fantasy GUI.
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GWF is the simplest class in game and even it has 5 abilities that you swap around. It's also the only class that has such simplistic decisions such as +dps.Mind you any gwf with a clue will be using atleast one utility ability if not 2. All other classes are using situational encounters as needed. Also 50 is about 3 days of play time, still solo questing for levels and its really not comparable to the actual gameplay once you start doing group content.
So gw2 has 15 abilities? Given the list you gave for hotkeys i stand by my statement, way too many abilities. Sure its an improvement over games with 40 hotbars ddr rotations mouse clicking shit but ill take fps style controls/gameplay thats all pure muscle memory over watching a ui element any day.
So gw2 has 15 abilities? Given the list you gave for hotkeys i stand by my statement, way too many abilities. Sure its an improvement over games with 40 hotbars ddr rotations mouse clicking shit but ill take fps style controls/gameplay thats all pure muscle memory over watching a ui element any day.
Byr
Potato del Grande
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no, you missed the point. why would you play a game that you dont need to interact with?
Interacting is one thing but when it reaches a point as it has in most all the modern(most if not all failed) MMO's when you have to have multiple one button macro's to mash over and over as well as staring at every inch of the screen for timers and buffs/debuffs droping and the other 50 things it no longer becomes fun. It might be fun for a fight or two or maybe a raid but the rest of it becomes work and exhausting. I by no means say lets go back to EQ type slow combat but damn there has to be a happy medium.
Most the fun I have had in my MMO playing days is chilling out with a small group of friends doing dungeon runs/camps and bullshitting for hours but you can not do that for the most part anymore because every fight is hectic with a billion buttoms and things to mash or watch out for. Game companys have completely(with the help of the players) taken social interaction completely out of MMO's with this style.
Lets not pretend this style of game play is some awesome experience that we need more of as every MMO since WoW for the most part fails and people stop playing or burn out after a couple months.
Most the fun I have had in my MMO playing days is chilling out with a small group of friends doing dungeon runs/camps and bullshitting for hours but you can not do that for the most part anymore because every fight is hectic with a billion buttoms and things to mash or watch out for. Game companys have completely(with the help of the players) taken social interaction completely out of MMO's with this style.
Lets not pretend this style of game play is some awesome experience that we need more of as every MMO since WoW for the most part fails and people stop playing or burn out after a couple months.
Heres the deal with autoattack. You cant just engage autoattack and then go afk, any mob that gives you XP will destroy you in no time. You could only do that with much much lower level mobs that you would not want to bother fighting anyway - but in EQ a level 1 skeleton would attack a level 65.
The reason autoattack is good, is mostly a visual and visceral thing. It engages people in to attack so it looks like and feels like they are fighting, and they dont need to actually press something for each hit. It would get really tiring having to hit every mob 20 times, especially seeing as you kill billions of mobs in eq. But those hits dont do much, especially as none melee dps characters. It's what you then click which does the damage and has the powerful effects, and you click those independently of the auto attacks. So it looks like an action packed fight, when really its people only using a few spells and abilities per fight.
For melee dps characters, the autoattack does do most of their damage, but there is some stuff for them to click too. It was very simple for those few classes, but they tended to occupy themselves with other things. Monks for example had little else to do besides engage auto attack and then press kick a few times. But they became the main pullers and would know the pathing routes and how everything worked, in every dungeon, and every raid. And pulling required effort and skill, so fighting was almost like their moment to rest, while everyone else gets busy killing it. Then everyone else sits down to recover after the fight, and the monk heads off immediately to look for the next kill.
The reason autoattack is good, is mostly a visual and visceral thing. It engages people in to attack so it looks like and feels like they are fighting, and they dont need to actually press something for each hit. It would get really tiring having to hit every mob 20 times, especially seeing as you kill billions of mobs in eq. But those hits dont do much, especially as none melee dps characters. It's what you then click which does the damage and has the powerful effects, and you click those independently of the auto attacks. So it looks like an action packed fight, when really its people only using a few spells and abilities per fight.
For melee dps characters, the autoattack does do most of their damage, but there is some stuff for them to click too. It was very simple for those few classes, but they tended to occupy themselves with other things. Monks for example had little else to do besides engage auto attack and then press kick a few times. But they became the main pullers and would know the pathing routes and how everything worked, in every dungeon, and every raid. And pulling required effort and skill, so fighting was almost like their moment to rest, while everyone else gets busy killing it. Then everyone else sits down to recover after the fight, and the monk heads off immediately to look for the next kill.
zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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I think most people are using extreme examples to get their points across(impossible right?). I think EQ will ship with auto attack but it can't hurt to have a few updates to combat and spells either. I don't need engulfing darkness version 10 with a different name yet the exact same uses. I do completely agree with Tad about homogenizing gameplay. EQ was at it's best when they had variety and people could do unexpected things. WoW was best in vanilla when the things mentioned earlier were live. We really didn't buy the game to play what you want us to. We just want to have fun in an alternate reality. Why add rigid new rules that reminds us constantly how average we are?
The OoW Beastlord combat style was by far my favorite in an MMO, Flurry AA's and Double Attack for good auto attack damage filled in with some pretty cool AA Abilities like Swipe and then adding in a medium and fast cool down nuke...really really enjoyed it and have yet to see anyone be able to replicate it =\
Here's to hoping that they can capture that magic in EQ Next.
Here's to hoping that they can capture that magic in EQ Next.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Mining in eve works because of bots, really. Pretty much people keycloning / botting handle the mining
Granted, more people would mine if bots didn't run nullsec ores into the fucking dirt, so w/e.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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This is the EQN thread not the Wildstar thread. There should be no need to defend EQ autoattack in this thread. If you, Byr and company want an action RPG you've got lots of options now and more coming up. But fuck you all if you want EQ to be an action RPG.
Cheers
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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The thing is, your whole argument for auto attack is based on being able to take quick afks/attention breaks.... But this assumes EQ style static camps... If you have to crawl through a dungeon at all your group will leave you behind while you are grabbing a beer/rubbing one out
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Well if EQN is just a WoW clone then not only is my post above pointless but this whole thread is pointless. So no worries.
you do need to interact, just doesn't have to be with the combat in the game. you don't need to play DDR to interact in a game world, but your ADHD generation will never be able to comprehend this simple fact.
iannis
Musty Nester
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Yeah man, Eve mining is created FOR bots. On one of my 5,000 attempts to play eve I tried to do the mining thing. 3 hours later when I actually thought to do the math I uninstalled eve again.Mining in eve works because of bots, really. Pretty much people keycloning / botting handle the mining
Stuff like that has its place in MMO's. You can build a fun game which incorporates that but you have to be willing to take the bad with the good. I don't think the EQ purist crowd is too cool with RMT and botting as a game mechanic. Eve would fall apart without it.
Nobody's interested in roleplaying a serf. Correction: the people that are interested in roleplaying a serf do it at Ye Olde Renniasance Faire hosted by the SCA. or they LARP.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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I get this point ... . I feel often times we are trying to fit too much into small designs... If I am playing a fighter for example I can see why less skills makes sense in fact for more realism why not dodge / block / roll and NOT abstract the combat so much... Problem is for casters when you go this route you invalidate much of what they really are...
Casters maybe should be voice driven with voice commands if the tech worked it would be great as that is how they cast for the most part anyway... These interfaces we use into these behaviors are the problem and now every designer thinks getting everything down into a console controller is the answer and it sucks.
Byr
Potato del Grande
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