How has the other method worked for all the other mmorpg's in history since 2004? Flops can happen in both scenarios. I think generally when your #1 concern is money you're not going to make a game as good as if your #1 concern is to make a great game and know that money will follow it.
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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I wouldn't be against it, but usually what happens is you get similar conversations in the same threads. I generally prefer to keep it in one thread until the game releases and you have a 'discussion' thread and 'experiences playing the game' thread.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Don't take that bait. It's not worth arguing when someone doesn't even consider all the factors that went into VG failing.. The game/vision they set out to make was highly anticipated. What they delivered is something totally different.
Cartoony graphics...check. Switch classes on the fly...check. Spastic combat with obnoxious particle effects...check. Free-to-play ie pay-to-win...check.
I'd call this game a WOW-clone but I think that's understating how bad this game really is. Absolutely nothing in common with original EQ other than wizard spires from what I can tell.
Congrats Wow fans, you have yet another fluffy care-bear cartoon game to play.
I hope TESO comes through with a decent offering...
I'd call this game a WOW-clone but I think that's understating how bad this game really is. Absolutely nothing in common with original EQ other than wizard spires from what I can tell.
Congrats Wow fans, you have yet another fluffy care-bear cartoon game to play.
I hope TESO comes through with a decent offering...
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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It sounds like you're asking for Dark Souls Online. I certainly think there is room for an MMO like that, I just don't think it'll be that successful or even stand out among all the other games out there.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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I can think of what, 2 out of 80 that didn't make money?
APB and Tabula rasa?
Sure disappointments like SW:TOR,and DCUO. But even they and many others like them made profits. And going to ftp only increased those profits.
The secret world may have been on the actual losing money path, till ftp probably turned it profitable.
These games print money even when they are giant piles of shit.
Someone get that pdf of TSW projecting a profit if it matches Age of Conan sales.
1. dark souls is critically and financially successful and is also a huge departure from the type of stuff some of you are claiming most "gamers" like.
2. of course stars wars the old republic made money. it's the biggest IP in the world and probably made a profit on box sales alone.
2. of course stars wars the old republic made money. it's the biggest IP in the world and probably made a profit on box sales alone.
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I'm sorry, but I think this is exactly what they're going for. In an interview, they had an example of 2 people trying to take down Crushbone. Perhaps it's too hard, so they can play with their class combinations to see what works - and if it doesn't, then they would need to find more people.
I don't really see the problem with it. For example, I have 6 level 90's in World of Warcraft. What's the difference between having 1 character that had to individually level up and gear for each class, or having 5 different alts that did the same thing?
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Causation vs Correlation.
Vanguard failed, not because of design, but because the guy in charge was a pill popping drug addict that couldn't manage a fucking lemonade stand, much less a large company financed by one of the largest conglomerates in the world.
Just to get an idea of what Forgelight can do, in Planetside2 I've seen battles with probably around 500-600 players in a single area. At this point, the game servers start to exhibit ability delay, there is massive culling (people and vehicles popping into existence), but it plays as well as anyone can reasonably expect for a battle that size going in real time. The servers don't crash, the client chugs along, and most people come away from it thinking "That was an awesome battle."
Keep in mind PS2 battle environments are very specific, no deformable terrain, mostly barren areas etc, so EQN req's would be totally different.
Keep in mind PS2 battle environments are very specific, no deformable terrain, mostly barren areas etc, so EQN req's would be totally different.
Now that the Smoke has cleared from the announcement of Everquest Next how is everyone doing?
Have a lot of you recovered from the fact Smed promised that Next said it wont be demo, and it would be playable lol?
From the little they did show, and have.
I now think my orginal launch date of Nov to Dec 2014 is in grave danger.
I will get to that in second.
I now think May or June 2015 would be the launch date. As far as the launch date they should have then that would be Nov 2015 to get it the most polished etc.
Now having said all that, I still think ready or not SOE is going to have this out in Nov to Dec 2014 or April 2015 at the very latest.
I strongly feel they have at least 2.5 years or more work left which would take them to Nov or Dec 2015 at the soonest.
However since SOE is doing that Everquest Landmark for Free PR as well as designs, as well as them having the Beta signups up this early then again they are going for the window of Nov to Dec 2014 which is at least 1 year to soon.
It will have to be really fucked up for SOE to not launch in Nov or Dec 2014 even if they don't the most I see them moving it back is April or May 2015 sighs.
I want to be clear the greatest MMO.I ever played was everquest from the Alpha to the 4 closed betas to the launch.
So I am dying to help alpha and beta this as well as have it launch but the worst shit SOE can do is have another launch to early.
We told SOE that eq2 and vanguard needed another 6 months of betas at the very least, we all know what happened to that.
I also was sad to finally see the Cartoon character models that, I knew were coming.
The fact that they only showed 2 races on Friday makes me suspect they maybe don't even have all the races in yet.
The biggest thing that made me smile Friday was seeing the game engine tech demo of the night to day effects etc.
I also love how Smed said while ago that he was making a sandbox not the next wow, then of course he had them gut change the character models to the WOW kiddie Cartoony models.
Vintage Smed, Yet a lot of players listened to him, in regards to that and as well as they thought this game was ready to start the closed betas, its not anywhere close to that.
Anyway cheers.
Have a lot of you recovered from the fact Smed promised that Next said it wont be demo, and it would be playable lol?
From the little they did show, and have.
I now think my orginal launch date of Nov to Dec 2014 is in grave danger.
I will get to that in second.
I now think May or June 2015 would be the launch date. As far as the launch date they should have then that would be Nov 2015 to get it the most polished etc.
Now having said all that, I still think ready or not SOE is going to have this out in Nov to Dec 2014 or April 2015 at the very latest.
I strongly feel they have at least 2.5 years or more work left which would take them to Nov or Dec 2015 at the soonest.
However since SOE is doing that Everquest Landmark for Free PR as well as designs, as well as them having the Beta signups up this early then again they are going for the window of Nov to Dec 2014 which is at least 1 year to soon.
It will have to be really fucked up for SOE to not launch in Nov or Dec 2014 even if they don't the most I see them moving it back is April or May 2015 sighs.
I want to be clear the greatest MMO.I ever played was everquest from the Alpha to the 4 closed betas to the launch.
So I am dying to help alpha and beta this as well as have it launch but the worst shit SOE can do is have another launch to early.
We told SOE that eq2 and vanguard needed another 6 months of betas at the very least, we all know what happened to that.
I also was sad to finally see the Cartoon character models that, I knew were coming.
The fact that they only showed 2 races on Friday makes me suspect they maybe don't even have all the races in yet.
The biggest thing that made me smile Friday was seeing the game engine tech demo of the night to day effects etc.
I also love how Smed said while ago that he was making a sandbox not the next wow, then of course he had them gut change the character models to the WOW kiddie Cartoony models.
Vintage Smed, Yet a lot of players listened to him, in regards to that and as well as they thought this game was ready to start the closed betas, its not anywhere close to that.
Anyway cheers.
An MMO, or especially an MMO, like any other product that involves extreme complexity, fails or succeeds for multiple or different reasons. If you and others here can't grasp some of this complexity at at least a high level, then you shouldn't be talking about it.
WoW is not successful because of its game designers. People like Furor, Tigole, or Pardo didn't really do much to achieve their success. They mostly rode on coat tails. The success of WoW is almost entirely due to the expertise of Blizzard's engineers and technical artists (which has dropped recently, but was the absolute best previously).
If you took the WoW engine and slapped EQ mechanics into it, it will still be a successful game. The design mechanics don't matter as much as how much fun it is to push a button or the fluidity of running around: how the response feels to interacting with the keyboard and mouse is the most important thing for the success or failure of any game, let alone an MMO. If your engineers are shit and your game is choppy and unresponsive, no design in the world will save it. If you have ace engineers like Blizzard of yesteryear, your design doesn't matter as much.
The success of WoW is a lesson in engineering expertise, not design talent. Everyone here would do well to remember that, especially when engineering abortions like Vanguard are mentioned.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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- 322
Where the problem lies is there is no class interdependence factor and there is no identifying factor. The example I've been using is teleports. Everyone remembers looking for wizards/druids to teleport them at one point in their career if they played EQ any considerable amount of time. They were sought after and playing one of those classes you felt like you brought something to the table. People needed you for something your particular class provided. In this system everyone can be any and every class so a year or two post-launch literally EVERYONE that plays this game will have "Wizard" unlocked and be able to teleport themselves. "Shaman" unlocked to SoW themselves. "Enchanter" unlocked to give themselves clarity. "Cleric" unlocked so they can rez. You don't have to rely on anyone else because you are everything and it's this mindset that's destroyed so many MMO's for me and many others.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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The homogenization of the classes in WoW was something that definitely nailed the coffin shut on any desire I had to ever play that game again.
Classes should be unique, special, and bring their own thing to the table. Not every class needs to be equally strong in soloing, grouping, PvP, raiding, heroics, and so forth. Let each class have their own strengths and weaknesses.
If you can't get your game working that way...then don't make 40 fucking classes.
Having 40, or 400, or 4,000 classes is meaningless if they all do the same fucking thing, except with different animations.
Being able to change classes is downright fucking stupid. It's definitely not something I'm looking forward.There's literally NO upside. Nobody is like, "wow that's a stupid feature." There are only people who are ambivalent about it, and there are definitely a lot of people who thing it's the dumbest idea in the world.It's a breakeven-lose situation for SOE.
Classes should be unique, special, and bring their own thing to the table. Not every class needs to be equally strong in soloing, grouping, PvP, raiding, heroics, and so forth. Let each class have their own strengths and weaknesses.
If you can't get your game working that way...then don't make 40 fucking classes.
Having 40, or 400, or 4,000 classes is meaningless if they all do the same fucking thing, except with different animations.
Being able to change classes is downright fucking stupid. It's definitely not something I'm looking forward.There's literally NO upside. Nobody is like, "wow that's a stupid feature." There are only people who are ambivalent about it, and there are definitely a lot of people who thing it's the dumbest idea in the world.It's a breakeven-lose situation for SOE.
I want to say 1 more time and I mean it.
I am the biggest Everquest fan, it was the greatest MMO ever played hands down.
I also enjoyed the alphas to 4 closed betas for this game the most, from the devs to the other testers.
I also want to be clear, Loved all I saw Friday, even with the Cartoony models, cant stand art style this is the game we all have been waiting for ok.
The only part of Fridays announcement that was terrible was the etch of sketch they could have way shortened that so we get it , sandbox etc.
The worst part for me was watching the Videos of everquest Next, while having to listen to smokejumper lulz.
I wish someone else did that part for him.
Cheers.
I am the biggest Everquest fan, it was the greatest MMO ever played hands down.
I also enjoyed the alphas to 4 closed betas for this game the most, from the devs to the other testers.
I also want to be clear, Loved all I saw Friday, even with the Cartoony models, cant stand art style this is the game we all have been waiting for ok.
The only part of Fridays announcement that was terrible was the etch of sketch they could have way shortened that so we get it , sandbox etc.
The worst part for me was watching the Videos of everquest Next, while having to listen to smokejumper lulz.
I wish someone else did that part for him.
Cheers.
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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These kinds of posts confuse me. Sure, there are no levels, but gear = levels. Your tier 5 character will stomp the shit out of tier 1 content. And it absolutely wastes previous content. Why the hell are you going to want to be doing lower tier content? Saying there are no levels doesn't make it so.
I'll go back to the TSW comparison since it's so apt. There are no levels, but a 10.4 tier DPS is going to absolutely fuck shit up in lower tiers. In EQN's case, you have to imagine a tier 5 wizard can one shot all of the tier 1 mobs. If not, what in the fuck is the point? It also wouldn't make sense if that is the case since they said a tier 2 in a tier 4 zone is screwed. What kind of magical ability is going to allow you to survive if it's not more dps/hp/heals?
This whole thing just sounds like they're not calling things what they are, and some of you are eating it up. Tad also keeps bringing up how it'll be so difficult to max out a class. How is that any different from any other MMO? I seem to recall it taking fucking forever to get to 50 in original EQ. This isn't new. In, the whole idea that gear is so important really just sounds like a rehash of EQ. That was probably one of the most gear dependent MMO's there is.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Tidbit,
I am just illustrating that you can create a post in this manner and perhaps more effectively convey your point.
Friday was a pretty good movie but I prefer Ice Cube's other films. Friday after Next just wasn't the same
without Deebo. I feel like they were just cashing in on the sequels but I can definitely relate to your love of the
franchise. Did you ever see It's All About the Benjamins? That mexican chick was fucking banging in that one.
Anyway, enough about Friday. It's Etch-A-Sketch, not Etch of Sketch...
Cheers,
Your friend from across the ocean.