Big_w_powah
Trakanon Raider
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EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
Randin
Trakanon Raider
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Latest roundtable video
So, evidently these types of polls might actually affect development, with high-polling races getting precedence over the lower-polling ones. However, it sounds like their plans are to eventually have all/most of the playable races from previous EQs show up in EQN.
So, evidently these types of polls might actually affect development, with high-polling races getting precedence over the lower-polling ones. However, it sounds like their plans are to eventually have all/most of the playable races from previous EQs show up in EQN.
Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
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I used to follow this game religiously, but I can now say I only check up on it every few weeks. And by check up on it I mean I look at this thread for 30 seconds to see if there are any new screenshots. My confidence in this game has plummeted. Of course, "this game" refers to EQN. Is that even still a game, or did they abandon it for EQNL?
Well it's pretty far out from release. I mean you reallyshouldjust be occasionally checking in on it; there's not going to be information about EQN specifically for some time, and it will most likely comeafterthe release of Landmark. Up until Landmark releases we're probably just going to get a very slow drip of information about Landmark itself.
This is better than a lot of MMO reveals, really. I don't know where all of the high expectations have come from considering that this is much more interactive than any reveal I remember or have experienced.
much more interactive? are you fucking serious? you think these meaningless round table polls make this reveal interactive? you probably believe congressmen when they say they are going to lower taxes and cut spending too....
Any amount of "interaction," regardless of howactuallyinteractive it is, isobjectivelymore than the typical "we're making a game, it's coming out sometime in the future, await for future updates" reveals that typically happen (sounds like SOE in description but I'm talking about companies that sparingly post anything up until the last year to half year of development). I'm not saying they're more interactive than throwing a ball at a brick wall, but it's objectively some modicum of interaction. Less salt pl0x.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Not sure this was posted. MMORPG podcast with EQ Franchise people.
Highlghts:
Georgeson claims EQN will be quite difficult, and group oriented. Death penalties are in. Terry says there will be solo content, but that content will be different activities with different rewards than group content. Focus on exploration, fear, adrenaline. Makes reference to other MMORPG products being too easy. Georgeson refers to Tundra Jack as Yukon Jack
MMORPG.com Podcast
EQN stuff starts around 14 minutes
Highlghts:
Georgeson claims EQN will be quite difficult, and group oriented. Death penalties are in. Terry says there will be solo content, but that content will be different activities with different rewards than group content. Focus on exploration, fear, adrenaline. Makes reference to other MMORPG products being too easy. Georgeson refers to Tundra Jack as Yukon Jack
MMORPG.com Podcast
EQN stuff starts around 14 minutes
Death penalties being in means what? Have they stated what the actual mechanics are?
The problem with death penalties since EQ have been that they rarely ever happen alone in the overworld. (Dying in WoW while not in a dungeon only happened if you were AFK or trying a very red mob 5+ levels above which was only difficult due to hardcoded resists/misses that happened once a mob was red).
This meant that the "Focus on exploration, fear and adrenaline" never happened in WoW and I have not seen it in a game since EQ. You never explored a new area (outside dungeons) and went "ohh this is scary, Ireallydon't want to die". Exploration in games since EQ have been "open map, go to unexplored area. If aggro from mob that can kill you, run until leash is activated and mob drops aggro". Kithicor scary / Duskwood not scary. Kithicor with WoW death penalties, not scary. Duskwood with EQ penalties, scary.
For death penalties to actually matter again they need to be implemented close to the start of the game, not just at end game, and there needs to be an immediacy to it. Death should suck equally for a low geared person as a high geared person, only difference should be that it is less likely that the better geared person would die. WoW era death penalties that focus on the gear not the player turned that completely upside down. Death virtually pointless until the very late stages, because it costs more to fix a purple tiered robe than a green one. Death is then also not an immediate concern or loss, but rather something that you "fix" later when you go into town. Oh I died 5x times last run, so now I need to click a button to repair. It might be noticable at the later levels due to high costs, but it is not an immediate "oh no, I am about to die". No fear. In WoW when I saw nameds in the overworld, even if they were several levels higher, I tried, died, tried again, until I thought "I can't do that" and moved on. In EQ, I saw mobs and thought "I shouldn't do that". It has been over a decade since a game has shown me a mob that I wanted to kill, and me not even trying because the inevitable death was not worth it.
Hopefully they don't do anything stupid like lower death penalties for solo, and increase group penalties (like early EQ2). Death should be death, similar for all classes, all levels (perhaps less for the first 5 or 10 levels). It should be noticable, so that you would not want to die, ever, but you should be allowed to reduce the penalty by gaining help from the community.
My ideal way of doing it would implement different penalties based on where you are / what is happening in the world. Within an X radius of a main town/settlement, you could respawn in that area, with a exp penalty, debuff, or whatever. Outside that radius, corpse/items would be left on body. Have to go back. Would make world exploration dangerous, but also give incentive to build new settlements. Have hardmode dungeons/mobs that might add even more risk, not that I would get close to such an area, but would have no problems with static extremely dangerous mobs (think Sleeper) with a deathpenalty that went closer to permadeath. Contested mobs that wiped out top tier guilds. That would make for some good story reading.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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This probably doesnt apply to EQN but I would go with a system that has some kind of AA points, and if you die, you lose one. The actual amount of xp you need for one AA doesnt even matter - you lose something you had, it'll sting. That is basically the same as xp debt or xp loss but losing that aa point gives it a clearer reference. the player knows with 20 of those points he could get <whatever> but now he is one point further away from that because he decided to leeroy it. Lesson learned (or game de-installed for may current-gen MMO players, but screw them).
I hope Georgeson can come through with the difficulty and this isnt just their version of 'good cop, bad cop' where Butler lures in the casuals by removing denial of service and Georgeson tries to keep their old audience hooked by promising difficulty.
I hope Georgeson can come through with the difficulty and this isnt just their version of 'good cop, bad cop' where Butler lures in the casuals by removing denial of service and Georgeson tries to keep their old audience hooked by promising difficulty.
Miele
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 916
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So far it's a lot of chatting and promises, which in the MMO world and the world in general mean exactly nothing. EQN for now it's a design doc, everything will be probably cut to pieces before going live due to the fact the game will be a buggy piece of shit and 70% of the announced features will have to be "removed" and replaced with the current crop of crap. Couple this with a ton of little timmies that will ask for an easy life and you have a nice recipe for a very forgettable MMO... but it'll have Lego gameplay!
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Maybe I'll be eating crow in a few months, I hope to be honest... but I doubt it.
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Maybe I'll be eating crow in a few months, I hope to be honest... but I doubt it.
Everything we're hearing about now is EQNL related. They'll have their super casual and easy mode game, but I want to start seeing the details and mechanics of EQN (which won't be until after EQNL launches). They are now actively treating EQNL and EQN as two separate MMOs and Landmark is getting features not originally intended for it. Hopefully that means they'll mold EQN into something entirely different.
My predictions
EQN Landmark will be huge. It will cater to minecraft fans and a younger audience.
EQN will be a casual FTP game, closer to WoW than EQ. Again, they are trying to appeal to the market that tried WoW, not EQ. They can talk about death penalties and grouping all they want. I still say that will amount to durability/gold loss with instanced group content.
Brad's new game will be closer to the EQ we all know and want. It will be small in scale compared to EQN, and it will fail and all hopes of ever having a EQ like experience will die with that game as it is released just around the time Blizzard starts pushing WoW 2/Titan which will feature a combination of Landmark and EQN in one game.
New and future mmos will be utterly marketed to the T for Teen audience, and as such, will not have any sort of noticable penalty or "oh no, I did not want this to happen" moments, because teens today, in terms of gaming, are cuddled babies without any sense of hardship. A kid raised from the year 2000 will be 16 around the time of release. They will have had access to more games than we ever had growing up, and yet they will not really understand the concept of a "game over" screen. "What do you mean failed, and have to start over? From a checkpoint? What, there are no checkpoints? What about just loading a save? No saves? Wtf, what a shit game!". Original super mario would fail horribly as a franchise today.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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While I agree for the most part the sucess of Demon's/Dark Souls has shown that there is a market out there for more difficult games. What would be interesting is seeing some sort of age break down on people who play Dark Souls vs Average games.
I bet the age range is larger than people think. It's too easy to blame younger gamers. There's legions of long time gamers who have grown used to being spoon fed their way through a game, MMO or not.
Many people still like challenge. If you've got even a sliver of competitiveness in you, the idea that you've accomplished something that others haven't or accomplished something perceived as difficult is a good feeling. Maybe the majority wants everything on even ground at all times, but there's still people old and young that actually appreciate a challenge.
Many people still like challenge. If you've got even a sliver of competitiveness in you, the idea that you've accomplished something that others haven't or accomplished something perceived as difficult is a good feeling. Maybe the majority wants everything on even ground at all times, but there's still people old and young that actually appreciate a challenge.
Oh I agree. I have made posts about those games before in this thread in regards as to why death penalties should not be a thing of the past. If there is no risk to the game, there is little to no reward.
There is a market for them, but in mmo games, where they are interested in keeping as many people as they can, for as long as they can, adding hardships to the player is certainly not top priority. And I believe that if no game has gone back to the EQ roots of risk vs reward by the time WoW2/titan comes out, no game ever will. We will rather see a permanent state of what is the norm today. Quantity of loot is increased so you gain gear/progression faster, to keep your satisfaction and reward level up. That is the mantra of mmos today. Faster and more accessible. None of those attributes are compatible with old EQ mechanics.
Bruman
Golden Squire
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I think a big issue any new game would face if it was "more hardcore", would be how so many people are trained in the way MMOs work today. They'd fire up the game, die out in the night to some wandering level 10 mob, and immediately uninstall and go back to any one of the 5 F2P MMOs that have easy-mode going on. Market times are different! Brad is our only hope for that niche MMO!
So my question is how hard is it really to implement a "hardmode" server?
Same game, core assets, questlines, etc... but shit like the combat equations are tweaked for more difficulty, a different death penalty put in place, etc..
I understand that would be more resource intensive.. two code bases, two quality control checks, and so on. Depending on how much is tweaked it could be pretty significant. But since hardly any MMO dev does this I have to assume they have run the numbers and the potential profits from a hardcore base doesn't pay off. Or is it that they're just dumb lazy fucks bound by suits and bean-counters?
Same game, core assets, questlines, etc... but shit like the combat equations are tweaked for more difficulty, a different death penalty put in place, etc..
I understand that would be more resource intensive.. two code bases, two quality control checks, and so on. Depending on how much is tweaked it could be pretty significant. But since hardly any MMO dev does this I have to assume they have run the numbers and the potential profits from a hardcore base doesn't pay off. Or is it that they're just dumb lazy fucks bound by suits and bean-counters?