EQ Never

Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
Convo_sl said:
It's not about the money for me... I just think it's a silly direction we as players allowed them to go in. Maybe if they granted the 2 day head start to all the packages I would of looked past it. That's the one that is getting me.. They know people will rationalize the shit out of it. I doubt anyone is buying anything other than the $100 package.
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People take these offers for vastly different reasons. Mainly I want to try the game even if incomplete earlier, second reason for me would be the gimmicks (skins, flag, etc). If the $20 pack had early open access only, I would still pay for the alpha even if that pack didnt have early open beta. I also have no delusions about the "worth" of any land you might secure early on, they'll throw out new areas frequently as they complete tilesets and other parts of the game.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I said my peace... Lol i'm not going to hijack this thread.. In the end people can spend their money anyway they want. I'd just much rather they wait until the game is ready for the general public before they ask us to pay. Let's hope the entire gaming industry decides that we should pay them to find bugs for them. It will be a better industry because of it...
 
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Mur_sl

shitlord
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Convo_sl said:
I'd just much rather they wait until the game is ready for the general public before they ask us to pay.
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I'd be happy if they actually gave some basic info on system specs before trying the ol' cash grab. I'd imagine quite a few people tossing in for Alpha access don't have systems that can run PS2 very well, which seems like the only benchmark we have ATM. How nice would it be to pay to test the game, and not have a system that can handle it?
 
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InterSlayer_sl

shitlord
441
0
Convo_sl said:
I said my peace... Lol i'm not going to hijack this thread.. In the end people can spend their money anyway they want. I'd just much rather they wait until the game is ready for the general public before they ask us to pay. Let's hope the entire gaming industry decides that we should pay them to find bugs for them. It will be a better industry because of it...
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This isn't just an SOE thing. A lot of companies are doing it now and it's definitely a response to the success of indie dev kickstarter campaigns. It's also because it ties in so well with marketing in the social media age. Take StarCitizen for example. The father of the space sim fighter genre comes back after taking a break for over a decade, with promises on a cosmic scale to deliver the most awesome space sim game ever made. Can he do it? Is it another 38 studios? Who knows. But they just passed $27 million and the game probably won't be out until 2015 at the earliest.

I should say I am a backer of HexTCG and StarCitizen (~$60 or something each). My bar is mostly set at "Likeliness of the game shipping in a playable/functional state" and "Would I have bought (or spent some amount of money if its f2p) when it released anyway", so why not spend it now and get a little more out of it.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't see KS the same. Nothing wrong with supporting an indie company/project that may otherwise not get the funds to create their game. It's called voting with your dollar.

SoE is asking people to pay a premium to test their product. The irony is if all those packages were say open beta and a 2 day head start I would not mind. I don't think an alpha state of a game we know so little about should be used to profit. But like I said it's not my money. I just hate how the FTP model continues to go in the wrong direction. They are slowly moving the bar towards their profit margin as players continue to rationalize the new methods they come up with to maximize profits for the least amount of functional service/product.
 
arallu

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
47
Convo_sl said:
In the end people can spend their money anyway they want.
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Cinge

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Convo_sl said:
I don't see KS the same. Nothing wrong with supporting an indie company/project that may otherwise not get the funds to create their game. It's called voting with your dollar.

SoE is asking people to pay a premium to test their product. The irony is if all those packages were say open beta and a 2 day head start I would not mind. I don't think an alpha state of a game we know so little about should be used to profit. But like I said it's not my money. I just hate how the FTP model continues to go in the wrong direction. They are slowly moving the bar towards their profit margin as players continue to rationalize the new methods they come up with to maximize profits for the least amount of functional service/product.
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I concur. This isn't some individual trying to make his dream come true or some small company trying to get their game out there. This is a Major developer with plenty of cash to back it up, much different from kickstarter. The fact they are selling beta slots for a beta that hasn't even entered alpha testing is just wrong and pure money grab. The bad thing is its only going to get worse in the future, as like convo said, players start rationalizing more and more under the guise of FTP.
 
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Kedwyn

Silver Squire
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It is certainly a cash grab. Then again that is their business. The entire game is a cash grab as that is the reason they are making the damn thing.

As for their tiers and paying to minecraft in some bastardized EQ world, I'll pass. I paid for the CU Kickstarter alpha so I'm certainly not opposed to paying for access. I just don't see the value in paying to get into Landmark. EQN? Possibly. Landmark? I'll pass.
 
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Felmega_sl

shitlord
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1
This is not a cash grab. Profit is a factor. They are not making the game for free. It's no different than buying the box of the game for 60$, and then paying 15$ a month, which used to be 'the way'.

Landmark and EQN are F2P. If you want to play early, pay a little. Works for me. Ill be buying in.
 
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InterSlayer_sl

shitlord
441
0
cinge_sl said:
I concur. This isn't some individual trying to make his dream come true or some small company trying to get their game out there. This is a Major developer with plenty of cash to back it up, much different from kickstarter. The fact they are selling beta slots for a beta that hasn't even entered alpha testing is just wrong and pure money grab. The bad thing is its only going to get worse in the future, as like convo said, players start rationalizing more and more under the guise of FTP.
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Meh I don't mean to rationalizing it. I am probably in the wrong, but I equate things like Landmark Founders and Kickstarter because I don't necessarily see Kickstarter as a place to support starving artists and indie devs. I'm there because they are selling something I want and am ready to buy, but can't really get anywhere else.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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The only way I can rationalize it is they have so far said about landmark that as they're making tools they will be releasing them into landmark as well. They are giving us their dev kit for free and if some people want to pay for it then absolutely, more power to them. I'm glad for them. However, if they do the same with EQ:N itself I'll start to be disappointed. I look at this as a fun opportunity but also an opportunity to help build the game that I want to actually play.

I may throw 60$ at it since I cancelled BF4 order but I'm waiting a few weeks or so first to see if anything else at all comes out.
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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I feel like kickstarter is like 80% scams that will never see the light of day, so I don't see how SOE doing the same thing with something that will for sure not be a scam is somehow bad. Some of the same people that polish dev knob on kickstarter threads here bash SOE but in 5 years when this is all hind sight it will prolly brad or garriot who took everyones money and released garbage to a much greater extent than SOE did.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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in 5 years you'll be paying $300 for alpha buddy...I'm curious what peoples limits will be in the future and just how fucking out of hand the FTP model becomes..

As for KS.. People like Brad are catering to a niche.. they are attempting to make a game that the bigger companies have no interest in making.. So their audience shouldn't support that? You're making assumptions that those projects wont get released to rationalize you paying to alpha test EQL lol
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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Convo_sl said:
in 5 years you'll be paying $300 for alpha buddy...I'm curious what peoples limits will be in the future and just how fucking out of hand the FTP model becomes..

As for KS.. People like Brad are catering to a niche.. they are attempting to make a game that the bigger companies have no interest in making.. So their audience shouldn't support that? You're making assumptions that those projects wont get released to rationalize you paying to alpha test EQL lol
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Are they catering to a niche tho? Or are they playing off delusional nostalgia (maybe on their own parts too) to get money to chase a dragon that they can't possibly catch? Maybe they will deliver, not saying it isnt a possibilty, but the likelyhood of them failing is way way way higher than SOE failing, so really who is the smart money? IMO the guys paying SOE to play a sure thing are smarter than the ones paying brad.
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Creslin_sl said:
I feel like kickstarter is like 80% scams that will never see the light of day, so I don't see how SOE doing the same thing with something that will for sure not be a scam is somehow bad. Some of the same people that polish dev knob on kickstarter threads here bash SOE but in 5 years when this is all hind sight it will prolly brad or garriot who took everyones money and released garbage to a much greater extent than SOE did.
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Kickstarter projects can fail miserably but you've got to understand that going in. I've backed five or so total, two of which have came in and I'm satisfied (LSL remake and Shadowrun). Shovel Knight and Wasteland 2 are others I backed and they look fucking great. There's one (SpaceVenture) I funded that looks like it's going to shit the bed. I take the good with the bad.

It gives developers an opportunity to prove that there's an audience for games publishers swear nobody gives a shit about. You've got your AAA guarantees (GTAV for example) that can blow through an insane budget because they know success is around the corner, but below that you've got a bunch of dipshits blowing insane money only to release a product that needs to move 7 millions units for profit and it "only" moved 3 millions units. In the MMO world that's called Blizzard versus the rest of the fucking industry. B-tier developers don't exist anymore, it's either AAA or indie.

So yeah, you can lose any money you put into Kickstarter and people have already been screwed by that. But it's also a platform for games to get created that don't stand a chance of being funded by a publisher. I'd never put fund a game at a monetary value I'd cringe about losing. $30 has been my highest so far, but with the right deal I'd put $60 or so.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
As I was purchasing my $100 beta key from the SOE site I saw I could view all of my SOE transaction history and was curious how times had changed.

I played Everquest for a solid 5 years and paid just under $500. I also had a 2nd account which is not accounted for in this number, I forget the log in details to check it.

For 1.5 years of the FTP game, League of Legends, I've already spent over $500 on the game.

FTP is the devil! I'm also older now and have a bit more cash to spend. I doubt I would have spent as much on LoL if I was still a poor kid.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
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Creslin_sl said:
Are they catering to a niche tho? Or are they playing off delusional nostalgia (maybe on their own parts too) to get money to chase a dragon that they can't possibly catch? Maybe they will deliver, not saying it isnt a possibilty, but the likelyhood of them failing is way way way higher than SOE failing, so really who is the smart money? IMO the guys paying SOE to play a sure thing are smarter than the ones paying brad.
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He just said SoE and sure thing... There is no such thing as a sure thing in this industry lol. There is very little info in regards to EQL and how they will go about charging once the game goes live. These FTP games are not the games of old.. They are games designed around the FTP model first and foremost. Don't you think SoE should put out a bit more details? You'll be $100 in the hole before you even know how they plan to make revenue off the people who wait for release.. What if your comp can't handle it? Is that an ok scenario for you? What if the Alpha servers are only on the weekends but they crash every hour? I just don't get it.. It's not a time to profit it's a time to test..More unknown is release.. What if they plan to sell developer packages or make the basic UI so damn restrictive you have to cough up another $100 to make anything relatively unique? There are so many unknowns to this. Again, where are the standards. These games are not being designed in our best interest anymore. They are to maximize profits and long term I think we will lose out because of it. I obviously have a much more slippery slope view point than most.. I should of followed my earlier post and stopped posting about it.. I'll try and do that now.

P.S.I think all this has completely turned me off to SoE/EQN. Just something about it doesn't sit well..Matter of opinion I guess
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,508
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Kickstarter is prolly the craziest "investment" idea I have ever seen, personally I just don't understand it. Props to the guys who thought of it, I never thought we would see someone come up with a way to essentially sell shares without having to actually give up any ownership.

I also don't understand why it is any different than paying SOE to play an alpha of a game a person thinks will be cool.
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
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Kickstarter didn't invent crowdfunding. Obviously you don't understand it, like it, or whatever the fuck else but it's really not that hard to get. I've already received shit that wouldn't have otherwise existed and I'm happy with that. The brilliant part about Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms is you don't have to contribute. Crazy, right? It's the same thing with this EQNL stuff. If you don't like it, don't pay for it.

I wouldn't contribute a dime to the dipshits at Penny Arcade who keep starting sleazy Kickstarter projects, for example. This really isn't a complicated topic.
 
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