EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

kinadin

kinadin

<Gold Donor>
3,332
14,633
I played a rogue during UF/HOT/VOA in a top raiding guild and I can assure you that most of the people who play rogues on this server are bad. I can't tell you how many times I see a rogue having difficulty understanding backstab angles, or how to position themselves for minimal movement if they're rotating because morons in the group/raid pulled agro.

There are also a lot of reasons rogues have a rough few expansions, but as long as your group or raid isn't retarded with positioning you should be fairly high on the parse 95% of the time from at least Velious forward. Things get much better when tanks start getting utilities to snap agro faster/easier.
 
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,747
34,958
Elderan said:
Mostly the areas they shine in, soloing is very limited in velious. Luclin other classes just get a lot better while necros just stay the same.
Click to expand...
You seem like a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to this, so do you know of any sort of "rating" system that exists for the classes of EQ? I stopped playing somewhere around mid-PoP, so the game is almost a total unknown for me after that point, besides what information I've pieced together through various TLP threads.

For instance, Enchanters are god tier for most of the "classic/early" era of EQ, but a lot of people say they fall off somewhere around the GoD/OoW era. I've heard a lot of talk that Monks are pretty much solid (and even top-tier at times) throughout the whole game. Rogues are shit in classic but get a lot better with epic and continue getting better until they're eventually near the top of DPS. Warriors are mostly dogshit in classic, but pretty necessary for tanking in Kunark+. Your comments about necros being another example.

I guess the TLDR is if you have/know where a "breakdown" exists of the classes kinda throughout the eras of EQ? Especially as someone who never saw berserkers, later expansions, etc.
 
Foaming

Foaming

Lord Nagafen Raider
403
311
Shadowknights and Shamans are the most consistently powerful classes throughout the entire game. Monks and Bards are a close second. It is of no surprise that those 4 classes are so often paired together when creating boxes.

I'd give a solid nod to Necros and Paladins are runners up. They both have periods where they are better or worst, but over the whole game you won't be wrong in picking them.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,294
922
Foaming said:
Shadowknights and Shamans are the most consistently powerful classes throughout the entire game. Monks and Bards are a close second. It is of no surprise that those 4 classes are so often paired together when creating boxes.

I'd give a solid nod to Necros and Paladins are runners up. They both have periods where they are better or worst, but over the whole game you won't be wrong in picking them.
Click to expand...
I'd second these classes for the most part. When Enchanters start falling off, Shamans start picking up. But Shamans are never mediocre/bad the way Enchanters become. Shamans become gods starting in PoP. I miss pre nerf Spirit of the Puma (4 minute buff that gives your target a super high proc rate 400dd lure nuke). The first version of it appears in LDON. Although the version in game now is still incredibly, incredibly strong. So much so that you go from never really caring about your Sham pet to it being integral. And then with PoP they get free slow from PoTime via Time's Anithesis and of course you get the upgraded Torpor that doesn't gimp you in the process.


I'd place Shadowknights above Monks by quite a bit starting from PoP. Being a well geared Monk in Velious feels amazing though. Even so, a Monk will have trouble where a Shaman or Bard or Enchanter won't. Oh and in Luclin Bards get access to an unresistable mez that works up to level 59. Bards are very strong and can do some things that no other classes can. But it takes a lot of creativity, a lot of clickies/items/tricks, a lot of attention, and a lot of knowledge. Fading Memories is also the best AA that was ever created. The most fun I had in EQ was hanging out with friends in a wacky group doing shit we had no business doing, and it was all possible because of Bard.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,645
3,850
SK's are great for grouping and shit in PoP, but once GoD comes out they get fucking CRUSHED for raid tanking until Decrepit Skin in Prophecy of Ro. Then they get back into the mix except for really, really hard hitting mobs where you still need a stonewall. SK's become absolute god tanks for grouping/soloing/duoing though once they get skin.

Paladins are okay, but I've never been wowed by them compared to SKs. The healing changes they made make them really good at oh shit moments, but their snap aggro compared to SK and AE aggro are pretty rough.

Monks are always great brain-dead dps. Just make sure you've got it all macroed in one command, hit that button, feign death every once in a while if you're not a retard, and hit focuses on the right fights. EZ top 5 parser if you've got the gear.
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,294
922
Xevy said:
SK's are great for grouping and shit in PoP, but once GoD comes out they get fucking CRUSHED for raid tanking until Decrepit Skin in Prophecy of Ro. Then they get back into the mix except for really, really hard hitting mobs where you still need a stonewall. SK's become absolute god tanks for grouping/soloing/duoing though once they get skin.

Paladins are okay, but I've never been wowed by them compared to SKs. The healing changes they made make them really good at oh shit moments, but their snap aggro compared to SK and AE aggro are pretty rough.

Monks are always great brain-dead dps. Just make sure you've got it all macroed in one command, hit that button, feign death every once in a while if you're not a retard, and hit focuses on the right fights. EZ top 5 parser if you've got the gear.
Click to expand...
Yeah I didn't properly play an SK until Propecy of Ro/Buried Sea. I can buy them struggling in GoD and Omens a bit with how hard everything hits. they were nerfed quite a bit back in Prophecy era, right? I seem to remember having an insanely overpowered automatic lifetap that was just laughable.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,012
14,910
Bards become DPS in TSS and it's kind of amazing.

Sks are the premier kiters and snap aggro masters starting around oow? Maybe a bit earlier.
 
  • 1Pants on Fire!
Reactions: 1 user
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,747
34,958
Xevy said:
SK's are great for grouping and shit in PoP, but once GoD comes out they get fucking CRUSHED for raid tanking until Decrepit Skin in Prophecy of Ro. Then they get back into the mix except for really, really hard hitting mobs where you still need a stonewall. SK's become absolute god tanks for grouping/soloing/duoing though once they get skin.

Paladins are okay, but I've never been wowed by them compared to SKs. The healing changes they made make them really good at oh shit moments, but their snap aggro compared to SK and AE aggro are pretty rough.

Monks are always great brain-dead dps. Just make sure you've got it all macroed in one command, hit that button, feign death every once in a while if you're not a retard, and hit focuses on the right fights. EZ top 5 parser if you've got the gear.
Click to expand...
Again, I don't know because I haven't played past PoP, but aren't Paladins pretty insane at group healing? Sure, they don't put out the DPS of an SK, but the overall utility of a Paladin to a group seems top tier and while they don't have FD, lull/pacify/root makes them almost as effective.
 
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,747
34,958
I've always liked Paladins in my group for the "oh shit" moments and they really took off in PoP. I hear they just got better each expansion as well. They were never the DPS of an SK on most fights (often parsing around Bard level), but their group heals, cures, 0.8sec root in PoP, etc. always seemed pretty invaluable. Plus, they were always fucking disgusting when it came to undead fights.

EDIT: Weren't Paladins also pretty much required as rampage tanks with DA hammer?
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,294
922
Kirun said:
I've always liked Paladins in my group for the "oh shit" moments and they really took off in PoP. I hear they just got better each expansion as well. They were never the DPS of an SK on most fights (often parsing around Bard level), but their group heals, cures, 0.8sec root in PoP, etc. always seemed pretty invaluable. Plus, they were always fucking disgusting when it came to undead fights.

EDIT: Weren't Paladins also pretty much required as rampage tanks with DA hammer?
Click to expand...
When? I know on Veeshan, we used Bards alternating group divine aura on emperor for Luclin.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,012
14,910
DA Hammer is big for rampage for a while but after some time, at least in the OoW to TSS era, it doesn't seem as important. A lot of times I would get rampage and just melee and heal myself without a problem. In Luclin and PoP it was pretty huge.

Paladins don't get a lull between level 40something and 86. So, yeah, for a long time, lull is not a factor and it really sucks because I used it a ton in classic and kunark even.

Group heals are great but very mana intensive. However, you can have like four that don't overlap in your lineup if you really want so that can be some big group healing boosts. In Underfoot they get AE heals which is absolutely amazing.

Paladin DPS always sucks because never having any burst (at least as far as TSS) is pretty irritating. However, in Frostcrypt (all undead zone), I can routinely get top 10 in the pase and depending on discipline usage of other classes, top three. I've been able to hit #1 with Intensity running but that's an outlier. It sure does make FC more fun, though.
 
Foaming

Foaming

Lord Nagafen Raider
403
311
Yeah, a well played Bard is ridiculous. The things they can do is crazy. Few people ever push the class to what its really capable of and just use it as a melody bot.

Starting in PoP Shamans and SKs just enter a tier all by themselves for group content and never leave.
 
Jackie Treehorn

Jackie Treehorn

<Gold Donor>
2,794
6,537
DickTrickle said:
DA Hammer is big for rampage for a while but after some time, at least in the OoW to TSS era, it doesn't seem as important. A lot of times I would get rampage and just melee and heal myself without a problem. In Luclin and PoP it was pretty huge.

Paladins don't get a lull between level 40something and 86. So, yeah, for a long time, lull is not a factor and it really sucks because I used it a ton in classic and kunark even.

Group heals are great but very mana intensive. However, you can have like four that don't overlap in your lineup if you really want so that can be some big group healing boosts. In Underfoot they get AE heals which is absolutely amazing.

Paladin DPS always sucks because never having any burst (at least as far as TSS) is pretty irritating. However, in Frostcrypt (all undead zone), I can routinely get top 10 in the pase and depending on discipline usage of other classes, top three. I've been able to hit #1 with Intensity running but that's an outlier. It sure does make FC more fun, though.
Click to expand...
One of my favorite memories of in-era EQ was playing a Paladin with Time gear and that group heal sword (Hopebringer, right?) and with AA's keeping the entire group in LDONs. I remember pickup group clerics just switching to casting DD's and melee'ing. Granted wasn't the hard level LDONs or whatever they were, but fun times.
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,294
922
Jackie Treehorn said:
One of my favorite memories of in-era EQ was playing a Paladin with Time gear and that group heal sword (Hopebringer, right?) and with AA's keeping the entire group in LDONs. I remember pickup group clerics just switching to casting DD's and melee'ing. Granted wasn't the hard level LDONs or whatever they were, but fun times.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, that's true. They were quite broken with that setup in that era. This was also when you could run 6 Beastlords though and 6 beastlords was the fastest group because paragon was so overtuned.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,747
34,958
What's a solid duo partner for a Paladin? I just want something to do while I have downtime between groups, when I'm busy and need to afk frequently, when I just want to chill and camp some named, etc. I was thinking mage for the damage and simplicity in times where I'd be grouped up with both, but now I'm starting to question if I should use an enchanter instead. Charm, haste+buffs for the pally, slow for tougher named, CC for bad pulls, clarity for the paladin, etc. I'm also considering going with the "simple" choice of Shaman since they tend to get better and better, whereas enchanters slowly gets worse.
 
Cyni

Cyni

Lord Nagafen Raider
549
192
Shaman is the answer for pretty much every single "what class should I make to duo with". Doesn't matter what class you have, shaman works well with them.

That said, I absolutely hated playing mine. You're constantly spamming Canni, non stop buff requests, slow takes a shitload of mana, your dots are high mana cost, you're basically ALWAYS casting, which i found annoying for "chilling" out and duo'ing.
 
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,747
34,958
Cyni said:
Shaman is the answer for pretty much every single "what class should I make to duo with". Doesn't matter what class you have, shaman works well with them.

That said, I absolutely hated playing mine. You're constantly spamming Canni, non stop buff requests, slow takes a shitload of mana, your dots are high mana cost, you're basically ALWAYS casting, which i found annoying for "chilling" out and duo'ing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's kind of my problem with Shaman as well. Canni always annoyed the shit out of me. The buffs thing I'm not as worried about, since I have no problem telling people to fuck off if they want something stupid like agi, but I did the SK/Shaman thing on Selo's and found the Shaman to be kind of a PITA. It wasn't quite as bad when I was just duoing (like you said, dot mana cost is high, always casting, etc.), but it became so annoying grouping with him that I eventually just swapped him to a Bard.

Well, that helps. Down to enchanter or mage, I guess. I know mage is going to be the "simpler" choice, especially grouped, but enchanter just seems like it offers a ton to a Paladin, especially when it comes to duoing dungeons and tougher named. I feel like I'd be mostly relegated to duoing outdoor stuff on the Mage or expansions old content.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.