EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

Kirun · Dec 16, 2021

Pharone said:
If I remember correctly, the new spell effects system was part of the Legacy of Ykesha expansion. At the time, we thought it was cool, but in hind sight, we lost a lot of really coolness that was the original EQ with that change. Cleric heals and buffs used to be so impressive before they changed it.

Healing/buffing got worse with the "new" effects, but direct damage, DoTs, etc. got WAY fuckin' better with the new effects. They used to be pretty fucking boring - mage's "shock" line is a great example.

Pharone · Dec 16, 2021

Kirun said:
Healing/buffing got worse with the "new" effects, but direct damage, DoTs, etc. got WAY fuckin' better with the new effects. They used to be pretty fucking boring - mage's "shock" line is a great example.

Yeah I was playing a cleric at the time, so I wasn't that impressed with the change at the time.

Szeth · Dec 16, 2021

Anyone selling KR?

Rajaah · Dec 16, 2021

Cisik said:
You speak the truth homie.

Vanguard psionicist is my all time favorite class in any game ever; I say that as someone who doesn't play casters either. It was that weird enchanter / necromancer-ish combo with a ton of lore baked in.

I'd kill for a vanguard TLP lol.

Damn, I've always wanted to play an enchanter/necromancer hybrid. That sounds completely sick.

Sterling · Dec 16, 2021

Rajaah said:
Damn, I've always wanted to play an enchanter/necromancer hybrid. That sounds completely sick.

Vanguard has awesome classes in general. Might be the best MMO version of Bard and Blood Mage is maybe the coolest healer in an MMO.

Rajaah · Dec 16, 2021

Cisik said:
Bring back old spell effects imo >.<

I miss the old spell effects, and how they'd change forms at a couple points (level 20 and 45, I think?)

The shielding spells trailing from the hands was great, and the undead-slaying spells looked incredible compared to how meager they are now.

Zaide said:
I’d trade 64bit for Old Freeport and classic skeleton illusion on AoNs and Necromancer pets.

Playing a Necro again on Mischief launch was fun at first, but I couldn't get into it with the pets looking completely wrong compared to how I remember it. Also the spell effects. So I was looking for that "2000 again" feeling and it wasn't there. Switched to Monk for that "2005 again" feeling and at least it's still somewhat there.

Secrets said:
There won't even really be noticeable if they're even apparent.

64-bit won't add anything that you don't already have. It is just there to prevent out of memory crashes from DX9 texture allocation, as they mentioned in the blogpost.
Oh, and it might stop MQNext from working for a week while a 64-bit MQNext is made.

Players hyped that shit up to be something it's not. Annoying.

I've noticed this, people hyping themselves up for 64 bit like it's gonna be a game-changer and make EQ competitive again. People speculating on what the expac next year is gonna be like with 64 bits, coming up with the most outlandish stuff. Like we're gonna get a 15 zone SOL type expansion again or something. Thing is, the game architecture isn't what's holding it back. The last couple of expansions were dismal and felt like they were worked on for like a month. I mean we blew through Terror of Luclin's group content 100% in 3 days. Next year we'll get another expansion with 6 zones or so (3 of which are reconstituted old ones).

Korzax Stonehammer · Dec 17, 2021

Rajaah said:
I've noticed this, people hyping themselves up for 64 bit like it's gonna be a game-changer and make EQ competitive again. People speculating on what the expac next year is gonna be like with 64 bits, coming up with the most outlandish stuff. Like we're gonna get a 15 zone SOL type expansion again or something. Thing is, the game architecture isn't what's holding it back. The last couple of expansions were dismal and felt like they were worked on for like a month. I mean we blew through Terror of Luclin's group content 100% in 3 days. Next year we'll get another expansion with 6 zones or so (3 of which are reconstituted old ones).

So don't buy them. Most here play the TLP's, and that's it. I stopped buying when they pretended that LoY was an expansion. It was maps and guilds. and instead of giving that to everyone, making the game better for all, they tied it to the LoY expansion (lol).

Rajaah · Dec 17, 2021

Korzax Stonehammer said:
So don't buy them. Most here play the TLP's, and that's it. I stopped buying when they pretended that LoY was an expansion. It was maps and guilds. and instead of giving that to everyone, making the game better for all, they tied it to the LoY expansion (lol).

I buy them so that I can steamroll them with my buddies. We were the first group on Phinny to beat the last six or so expansions and #2 in TOL (because we took it a little easier and another group led by the most beast SK on the server passed us). The launches are fun times.

Secrets · Dec 17, 2021

Korzax Stonehammer said:
So don't buy them. Most here play the TLP's, and that's it. I stopped buying when they pretended that LoY was an expansion. It was maps and guilds. and instead of giving that to everyone, making the game better for all, they tied it to the LoY expansion (lol).

I don't think many actually buy them for anything /but/ the TLP launches, as there's 44 slot bags that are normally conveniently timed around expansion launches.

I'm pasting a few paragraphs that Shawn Lord (former EQ designer, M&M founder) wrote in Monsters and Memories chat. I fully agree with his assessment. Having been part of a company as a CSR / Junior Generalist Engineer myself that was run into the ground by a CEO pushing monetization first over player retention, I can see exactly how this gets peddled.

Shawn Lord's spot on for why EQ still pushes out expansions, and why they have less and less 'meat' that justifies their purchase price as years go on:

I won't profess to nail this one perfectly, so feel free to tell me I'm dated or wrong:

A lot of the "feature creep" (as opposed to creature feep), described here is rooted in the "boxed" expansion model. Marketing, PR, and the Execs regularly crying out with a Brad Pitt wail, "What's in the box? What's in the boxxxx?"

Periodic "boxed" expansions provide a big splash for:
- reactivating players
- exposing the game to new players
- directly generating some extra cash

Marketing doesn't care about a weekly or monthly update.

So, in order to be able to hype the game as much as possible, the folks listed above are often looking to the team to put as much in/on the box as possible. And often a bullet point is a bullet point.

So you end up with, "This expansion includes a new Bank Slot!"

And the folks listed above love big numbers: "This expansion includes 1200 new quests! (okay, maybe not "love," but they'll accept it as a bullet point.)

The bigger or more unique the systems and features, the better it sounds.

On the design side, the team is typically struggling with mudflation, systems integrity/balance issues, and a limited ability to "just stop and fix the game," while also satisfying a release schedule that'll retain players, while also hitting reactivation, growth/conversion, and revenue targets.

Without leaning into concepts like TLP, there's also a growing generational stratification of the playerbase that introduces new players to the game in a funky state (as you mention above).

"...oh, everyone is level 80 and mostly playing 4 continents away?

And the more the game's "end/elder/meta (meta even still used for this these days?) game" deviates from the core game (ex. Solo vs Group vs Raid vs PvP) and the more accessible these different game types are, the harder all of this is to maintain.

So, you end up with lots of "feature creep," borrowed power, completely new systems (ex. Garrisons, Pet Battles, etc). Then, you're catering to even more different player types, so it's even harder to feed everyone new content.

Especially, if there's a willingness to monetize elements of all of the above discretely via microtransactions. This further splits your priorities as a team.

...and I'm not saying it's the wrong thing to do. Each company has its own business analytics department and data. It's likely that they're seeing something we don't see as players.

But, I did share a little bit of my thoughts on my preference for our approach in my stream Discord the other day.

From what I could follow as an outsider, Path of Exile was doing a decent job with their Leagues early on. But, I get the impression that it's fallen into a bit of a similar rhythm.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

One thing that we've noticed (and @Nick is found of bringing up) is that POE, Runescape, now WoW, and likely others are doing, is including more of a focus on new ways to play the same content.

And with concepts that have been around for a while: Hardcore Mode, Solo Self Found, Group SSF, etc...

This approach, plus TLPs, is definitely interesting. Especially for games that are built less on evergreen systems, and more on linear progression.

We've discussed the following:
- A greater emphasis on breadth over time in the form of new classes, races, and trade skills
-> This may add new areas, but the goal is to keep them integrated in the core of the game world, while emphasizing replay

- Focusing on maintaining the integrity of the group game over everything else
-> This doesn't preclude the ability for players to do some soloing or gang up with multiple groups on some targets, but rather declares our focus

- Honest consideration paid to the balance between continued vertical progression vs allowance for player churn
-> If 5% of people have run out of things to do, while 95% are enjoying their 3rd alt or some other aspect of the game, it may be healthiest to let them churn if it means the game is more manageable in the long-term

- Slower progression pace and greater emphasis on changing the game as part of the ongoing live service

- The latter, combine with the other elements above, along with a strong focus on ensuring that cities retain their value/utility, should help make the game more welcoming for newer players, even on older servers

There's a lot more we could discuss on this front, but it's already wordy.

Sorry about that.

Kirun · Dec 17, 2021

Did they "standardize" the EXP from PoP zones? I swear that a 59 Hobgoblin in PoN is giving basically (within a tenth of a percent or two) the same exp as a 60 Pusling in CoD.

Secrets · Dec 17, 2021

Kirun said:
Did they "standardize" the EXP from PoP zones? I swear that a 59 Hobgoblin in PoN is giving basically (within a tenth of a percent or two) the same exp as a 60 Pusling in CoD.

If they're both blue, you're basically going to get the same experience amount.

I think the consider color matters more than the mob's level, as long as the mob's level is within 5 levels. There's an exp bonus, I believe, that is very significant for killing within 5 levels.

IE; at 65, you need to kill level 60 mobs (ie; tactics pit mobs) for best xp/hr. You'll kill faster in tactics than fire/water under most circumstances. If you have a single charm pet, Fire becomes the best XP/hr at generals camp.

Kirun · Dec 17, 2021

Secrets said:
If they're both blue, you're basically going to get the same experience amount.

I think the consider color matters more than the mob's level, as long as the mob's level is within 5 levels. There's an exp bonus, I believe, that is very significant for killing within 5 levels.

IE; at 65, you need to kill level 60 mobs (ie; tactics pit mobs) for best xp/hr. You'll kill faster in tactics than fire/water under most circumstances. If you have a single charm pet, Fire becomes the best XP/hr at generals camp.

Well, the 5 level/color thing seems like a bit of a myth. Lt. blue Hobgoblins in PoN that are 58-59 are giving around 2.65ish% AA/kill at 65 and blue level 60s in CoD were giving around 2.8% AA/kill.

Either way, it seems like there's definitely a "normalization" amongst POP zones when it comes to exp. Maybe the mod doesn't kick in until elemental?

Secrets · Dec 17, 2021

Kirun said:
Well, the 5 level/color thing seems like a bit of a myth. Lt. blue Hobgoblins in PoN that are 58-59 are giving around 2.65ish% AA/kill at 65 and blue level 60s in CoD were giving around 2.8% AA/kill.

Either way, it seems like there's definitely a "normalization" amongst POP zones when it comes to exp. Maybe the mod doesn't kick in until elemental?

It's something like a sliding scale of 50 to 250% more in that 5 level range. Torven would know exact details, I don't know off hand.

CoDecay has a higher ZEM, though. So that would account for the difference. Much like Fire has a higher ZEM than Tactics.

Nirgon · Dec 17, 2021

Secrets said:
Yes. You'll need to write a replacement that iterates through 64-bit pointers (8 bytes) and address spaces (no longer limited to 4GB)

Why aren't you an Elon Musk

Kirun · Dec 17, 2021

Secrets said:
CoDecay has a higher ZEM, though. So that would account for the difference. Much like Fire has a higher ZEM than Tactics.

Well that's what I'm saying, CoD doesn't seem like it DOES have a higher ZEM. Mobs that are blue, higher level, AND in a zone with a "higher" ZEM are only giving around 0.1-0.2% exp more than a T1 plane with mobs that are 1-2 levels lower, lower color con, AND a supposedly "lesser" ZEM. That number should be a lot higher if color, mob level, and ZEM were larger factors.

Secrets · Dec 17, 2021

Nirgon said:
Why aren't you an Elon Musk

Because aspiring to be someone else instead of your best self isn't a realistic goal.

Nirgon · Dec 17, 2021

Secrets said:
Because aspiring to be someone else instead of your best self isn't a realistic goal.

I don't mean a carbon copy of course, just potentially

You and Haynar make the rest of em look like tards by comparison

Lambourne · Dec 18, 2021

A lot of ZEM lists are out of date because they were reworked around 2018. Easy way to tell is to look at City of Mist, if it is listed as high it's out of date because it now absolutely sucks.

More up to date list below, which unfortunately only goes up to Luclin. My experience on Aradune suggests that PoFire is still king, CoD isn't bad either because you can use necro charm there. Rats camp is best because a strong group will run out of mobs at the undead side. Tactics pit is okay too.

ZEM Information | EverQuest Forums

Hallo all, the following ZEM information was gathered during Luclin Era on Aradune Server. The values should stay the same ( only exp caps per mob much...

forums.daybreakgames.com

moonarchia · Dec 18, 2021

Lambourne said:
A lot of ZEM lists are out of date because they were reworked around 2018. Easy way to tell is to look at City of Mist, if it is listed as high it's out of date because it now absolutely sucks.

More up to date list below, which unfortunately only goes up to Luclin. My experience on Aradune suggests that PoFire is still king, CoD isn't bad either because you can use necro charm there. Rats camp is best because a strong group will run out of mobs at the undead side. Tactics pit is okay too.

ZEM Information | EverQuest Forums

Hallo all, the following ZEM information was gathered during Luclin Era on Aradune Server. The values should stay the same ( only exp caps per mob much...

forums.daybreakgames.com

Posted this in that thread pending mod approval:

Vanilla:
4-12 D Blackburrow 33 %
4-18 D Warrens 46,5 %
8-17 O South Ro 13 %
10-17 O Lavastrom 0
11-20 D Najena 53 %
11-31 D Unrest 17 % for Graveyard Mobs
11-31 D Unrest 46,6 % for Mobs in the House
14-23 D Permafrost 46,5 %
16-28 D Upper Guk 40 %
20-30 D Sol A 66 %
21-35 D Castle Mistmore 46,6 %
28-43 D Lower Guk 40 %
35-48 D Sol B 53 %
38-60 D The Hole 33 %
55-60 D Cazic Thule 46,6 %

Kunark:
1-15 O Field of Bonus 0
1-21 O Swamps of No Hope 0
1-28 O Lake of Ill Omen 0
7-18 D Kurns Tower 33 %
14-22 O Ovethere 0
20-26 O Warslik Woods 0
26-33 D Dalnir 33 %
30-36 D Kaesora 46,6 %
32-39 O Emerald Jungle 0
32-41 O Trakanon Teeth 0
37-46 O Burning Woods 0
37-48 D City of Mist MINUS 24 %
41-51 D Karnor Castle 26,6 %
44-60 D Chardok 46,6 %
43-51 O Skyfire 6,6 %
47-60 D Sebilis 33,5 %

Velious:
27-35 D Crystal Caverns 26,6 %
28-40 D TOFS 86 %
28-34 O Iceclad 33 % Bonus ( kinda best bonus ofr an outdoor zone ! )
34-52 D Kael 13 %
39-44 O Cobalt Scar 0
44-60 D Velketor 80 %
48-56 D Dragon Necropolis 46,5 %
52-60 D Sirens Grotto 7 %

Luclin:
7-21 D Paludal Caverns 46,5 %
17-24 D Netherbian Lair 6,6 %
22-29 O Marus Seru 0
25-32 O Downshroud Peaks 0
33-42 O Grimmling Forest 12 %
34-38 D Echo Caverns 6,6 %
42-49 O The Grey MINUS 13 %
44-57 DAcrylia Low Level Mobs 33,5 %
46-56 O Maidens Eye 0
47-55 D Seru 13,5 %
49-60 D The Deep 33,5 %
50-56 D Fungus Grove 0
51-54 D Akheva 13,5 %
52-60 D Griegs End 28 %
52-60 D Sssra 60 %
55-57 D Acrylia Inner High Level Mobs 60 %

Zog · Dec 18, 2021

Nirgon said:
Why aren't you an Elon Musk

With all due respect...

If secrets wasn't a tranny drama queen I'm sure would be quite a bit more successful.

The female side of secrets is weighing them down. Just be a cool dude who likes to dress as a woman.

EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

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