EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)
- Thread starter Zaide
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Let's say you're a 35 Wizard at EXE in Guk your most mana efficient nuke is Ice Shock at 3.6 Damage per mana with a -10 MR check.
Let's say you're a 35 Cleric at EXE in Guk your most mana efficient nuke is Expel undead at 3.6 Damage per mana -50 MR check. If you're really sweaty you can also bash as a Cleric.
A Cleric that's Evo spec which is fine for leveling is gonna out DPS the wizard. But It's a second person to heal if shit goes bad or your main healer needs to afk for 5 mins.
What undead in Classic are you getting to Frost Storm? Like besides the Ghoul Lord and his guards which undead lives long enough for Frost Storm to be viable? The Hole undead?
What about the first 40 levels? What nuke are you using in UR and LGUK pre 41 that's better? Oh that's right there isn't one a wizard is straight UP a worse DPS for most of the Undead Leveling route.
Rajaah
Honorable Member
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I keep trying to tell people Cleric is a better Wizard, but people keep blocking me over that statement
But definitely Cleric beats out Paladin in every way.
Paladin has these downsides in comparison:
1) Weaker versions of group heals
2) Weaker celestial remedy-style spells
3) Weaker Undead DDs/DoTs, Slay undead still lags behind Cleric
4) No Magic-based DDs
5) No PBAOEs
6) No AOE Paci/Wake of Tranquility
7) Cannot snare (Inny Symbol for Clerics)
8) Cannot Complete Heal, or Group CH.
9) Cannot self-buff HP/AC at a higher value than clerics
10) Does not get spell haste buffs
11) Limited 'decent' weapon choices until PoP
12) No reverse DS
13) AC softcap is equal to Cleric
Upsides for paladins:
1) AC Overcap returns are marginally better than Clerics (5% @ 60 for Cleric, vs 16.7% @ 60 for Paladins)
2) Weapon choice is about on par with clerics for a majority of the game
3) Gets double attack, meaning one extra combat round
4) Has Brell's line of spells
5) Endgame PoP weapon is one of the best ratios in the game for any class and provides access to a shield
6) Eventually gets 'decent' mitigation AAs in Luclin that make them better tanks than Clerics (but cannot sustain mana as long as Clerics)
7) Lay on hands resets on deaths, meaning Paladin is the second best class to take DTs in the game (second to SK)
8) Paladin gets a proc that eventually rivals the summoned cleric proc hammer
But definitely Cleric beats out Paladin in every way.
Paladin has these downsides in comparison:
1) Weaker versions of group heals
2) Weaker celestial remedy-style spells
3) Weaker Undead DDs/DoTs, Slay undead still lags behind Cleric
4) No Magic-based DDs
5) No PBAOEs
6) No AOE Paci/Wake of Tranquility
7) Cannot snare (Inny Symbol for Clerics)
8) Cannot Complete Heal, or Group CH.
9) Cannot self-buff HP/AC at a higher value than clerics
10) Does not get spell haste buffs
11) Limited 'decent' weapon choices until PoP
12) No reverse DS
13) AC softcap is equal to Cleric
Upsides for paladins:
1) AC Overcap returns are marginally better than Clerics (5% @ 60 for Cleric, vs 16.7% @ 60 for Paladins)
2) Weapon choice is about on par with clerics for a majority of the game
3) Gets double attack, meaning one extra combat round
4) Has Brell's line of spells
5) Endgame PoP weapon is one of the best ratios in the game for any class and provides access to a shield
6) Eventually gets 'decent' mitigation AAs in Luclin that make them better tanks than Clerics (but cannot sustain mana as long as Clerics)
7) Lay on hands resets on deaths, meaning Paladin is the second best class to take DTs in the game (second to SK)
8) Paladin gets a proc that eventually rivals the summoned cleric proc hammer
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Rajaah
Honorable Member
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You in a static yet? SK would work fine for this one. Full group aside from the tank, at the moment.
Kirun
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Yeah, there's no way I'm not waiting at least the month for Kunark to roll out. If for nothing else other than the fact that it helps spread population by a shitload. Plus, I figure it'll help them iron out the absolute shitshow random loot is going to be.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Clerics are amazing to play, especially as they start getting more and more AA abilities. Legitimately way more fun than I would have expected. During CH chain time though, it would suck to raid.
Regime
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
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Cupcaek
Molten Core Raider
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Stuns,taunt,DA hammer?I keep trying to tell people Cleric is a better Wizard, but people keep blocking me over that statement
But definitely Cleric beats out Paladin in every way.
Paladin has these downsides in comparison:
1) Weaker versions of group heals
2) Weaker celestial remedy-style spells
3) Weaker Undead DDs/DoTs, Slay undead still lags behind Cleric
4) No Magic-based DDs
5) No PBAOEs
6) No AOE Paci/Wake of Tranquility
7) Cannot snare (Inny Symbol for Clerics)
8) Cannot Complete Heal, or Group CH.
9) Cannot self-buff HP/AC at a higher value than clerics
10) Does not get spell haste buffs
11) Limited 'decent' weapon choices until PoP
12) No reverse DS
13) AC softcap is equal to Cleric
Upsides for paladins:
1) AC Overcap returns are marginally better than Clerics (5% @ 60 for Cleric, vs 16.7% @ 60 for Paladins)
2) Weapon choice is about on par with clerics for a majority of the game
3) Gets double attack, meaning one extra combat round
4) Has Brell's line of spells
5) Endgame PoP weapon is one of the best ratios in the game for any class and provides access to a shield
6) Eventually gets 'decent' mitigation AAs in Luclin that make them better tanks than Clerics (but cannot sustain mana as long as Clerics)
7) Lay on hands resets on deaths, meaning Paladin is the second best class to take DTs in the game (second to SK)
8) Paladin gets a proc that eventually rivals the summoned cleric proc hammer
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Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Damn dude stop pretending to be an expert when you don't know shit. Banish undead is even higher level than frost storm, which takes a whopping 6 seconds to do full damage.
Before that you have lavastorm which is much more mana efficient than expel undead and does around 4x the damage.
Saying clerics can do great damage against undead is true. Saying they can do it faster or more mana efficiently than wizards is blatantly wrong.
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yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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People get carried away. Even non undead, cleric nukes on camps with staggered pulls should often crush melee during a launch. You'd need near constant uptime on autoattack to beat out most any caster. That shit obviously changes eventually. But... wizards are good casters, they're not losing to clerics on raw dps. I'd rather have a cleric than a wizard vs purely undead because of how much more a cleric brings to the table besides dps, but jesus fuck they aren't higher raw dps.
This forum is too vaccinated I swear
This forum is too vaccinated I swear
Kirun
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Can't do classic homie. You'll see me day 31 in Field of Bone son.
Even in classic wizards are a bad group class, they shine pre 30 in like unrest because most of the melee cant even hit magical creatures yet but they are terrible compared to any pet class or monks.
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Paladin stuns are very good. I missed that one. The long duration stuns are unrivaled iirc.
Taunt is crucial for tanking, but honestly if you're a cleric, aside from soloing you won't be tanking. And if you need to, you have enough shit stuns to hold threat.
Cleric can use the DA hammer.
Furry
WoW Office
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Melee suck at launch, except perhaps monk. Any caster will out-dps them if they aren't asleep or jerking off. Not sure why people want to compare clerics to wizards. Clerics are very strong in lots of ways, but wizards can probably outdps one in most situations if the wizard isn't impaired in the aforementioned ways. They just have very low utility. I'd rather have a mage for dps anyways. A mage is far more likely to be good and worth my time in a group.
Clerics are kinda like enchanters, but different. Most of the ones you see are worthless box shits, but a good chanter is pretty much on the next level. The group is really just just their weighted leveling cloak dragging them down. Clerics are the glue that can make even the most worthless group functional.
I made myself swear I'm not playing cleric yet again though. I'll probably be on FoB with my necro day 31 with Kirun.