EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)

Ambiturner

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,084
13,144
131d 19h 31m
Jesus my man you are black hole dense. You asked me. You are also definitely winning the irrelevant shit contest.

I just asked how people exceeding 3 I'm your scenario would be any different than how people exceed 1 now.

You can't seem to answer that and have to keep saying retarded unrelated shit
 
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Kharzette

Watcher of Overs
3,528
1,906
104d 16h 15m
How would you enforce that?
I guess that's the real trick to any box reduction idea.

I dunno! I'm not super anti-boxer so I don't really understand the mindset.

I do get being stuck in a queue when some people have several on. Or fighting down to a camp and seeing a dozen pets and a bunch of naked default-names that never answered a camp check.

Or even people having 2 in a group and one is mostly dead weight while they get 2 shares of everything.
 

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
15,027
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I guess that's the real trick to any box reduction idea.

I dunno! I'm not super anti-boxer so I don't really understand the mindset.

I do get being stuck in a queue when some people have several on. Or fighting down to a camp and seeing a dozen pets and a bunch of naked default-names that never answered a camp check.

Or even people having 2 in a group and one is mostly dead weight while they get 2 shares of everything.
There definitely isn't a perfect system and boxing certainly has its own share of "issues" on the overall health of the game. The problem is, in 2022, boxing does far more to HELP the overall health of EQ than it does harm it. There aren't 100k+ concurrent people playing EQ anymore like there were in 2003.

It'd be a different story if EQ was actually attracting new players consistently and seeing occasional growth. At that point, boxing might end up being a greater risk than reward. But the problem is that EQ is really only populated by the same people who played it in '99 and there are less of them around each year.
 
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yerm

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
4,577
11,684
120d 8h 50m
I guess that's the real trick to any box reduction idea.

I dunno! I'm not super anti-boxer so I don't really understand the mindset.

I do get being stuck in a queue when some people have several on. Or fighting down to a camp and seeing a dozen pets and a bunch of naked default-names that never answered a camp check.

Or even people having 2 in a group and one is mostly dead weight while they get 2 shares of everything.

My experience has almost always been that boxers struggle more with queues than individual players since it often partitions their group versus just getting in when it lets you and going from there. Outside overleveled plvl crews they tend to occupy less area / pull less than a normal group and this leads to more picks and less density. The boxes tend to be far less needy to the point that alts frequently don't roll on vendor loot at all and therefore contribute more on average than they soak. There's exceptions, but boxes tend to be lower impact than mains. It's sorta part of their appeal to the owner too.

Where I often see the most salt is when the boxer DOES answer camp check and the person asking is pissed it isn't open, or when they ask if there's a spot and get told no and see that there's an alt in the mix. It's 90% boxer rage based on jealousy. I wanted that camp, or that spot, or that whatever, and a BOX got it!

In practice boxes are so much less needy and more flexible and after rizlona I'm super turned off about truebox and antiboxing and think antiboxers are mostly just terrible autistic fucks.
 

Korillo

Lord Nagafen Raider
490
329
36d 5h 0m
People think Phinigel was wildly popular because it was the first truebox server, but the reality is Phinigel was successful thanks to the Agents of Change that were added (ie. raid instancing). Players recall playing on Ragefire & Lockjaw and it was a nightmare with the box crews taking all of the lucrative camps, and essentially 1 guild taking all of the raid targets. A casual player had no hope of doing worthwhile content and they were justifiably upset.

If you recall as well, Ragefire & Lockjaw introduced pick zones (load balancing back then). However, they were only introduced in a few of the zones (mostly low level zones to help the initial levelling rush). This was the list of zones they introduced "load balancing" for:
North Qeynos
Surefall Glade
Qeynos Hills
West Freeport
Commonlands
Nektulos
Misty Thicket
Everfrost
Steamfont Mountains
Greater Faydark
Butcherblock Mountains
Innothule Swamp
Toxxulia Forest
Paineel
Field of Bone

Consider the above list, then consider a zone such as SolB. Good luck getting GEBs when there is only 1 version of the zone. I think it was Midgetts who essentially claimed this camp for himself and was even selling the rights to hold it for him when he wanted to sleep.

Anyway, eventually they opened up the zones available for "load balancing" and most zones became available to /pick in. But it was too little too late, and so they launched Phinigel - truebox, with instancing (Agents of Change), and the improved pick zones. An unbelievable difference compared to Ragefire/Lockjaw and introduced a way for any type of player to experience all of the content in the game. Unsurprisingly, this server became wildly popular, and I feel like many people unfairly attribute the success of this server to the truebox code, and ignore the other quality of life improvements the server brought.

I also feel like the Devs attributed far too much of the success to truebox, as every progression server since has implemented the truebox code, save for Rizlona. I think if Ragefire/Lockjaw had launched with Agents of Change, history would have been rewritten in a much different way. For better or worse, here we are, with people haunted by the memories of Ragefire and a deep hatred of boxing.

It's unfortunate because I think people are getting tired of having to run multiple PCs if they want to box a character on a TLP. I for one enjoy 3 boxing. You can fill every required role with 3 characters and get a lot done, which lets you just hop on and play rather than rely on trying to find a group when you get on. But I am not going to keep 2 laptops closeby to do this anymore, it's just not worth it. I think a "relaxed truebox" server would be quite successful, and it's too bad they keep insisting on truebox.
 
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alavaz

Trakanon Raider
1,952
690
20d 3h 11m
I just asked how people exceeding 3 I'm your scenario would be any different than how people exceed 1 now.

You can't seem to answer that and have to keep saying retarded unrelated shit
No, I just assumed that it was obvious and you were being a obstinate shithead about it. I'll bet you've never gotten a speeding ticket cause you just roll into court and tell them that there shouldn't even be speed limits cause like everybody just goes faster than them anyway. Gosh.

People don't exceed 1 account per PC with the truebox ruleset. They may control multiple PCs from a single PC but that is not the same thing. They can not use ISBoxer under the truebox ruleset. You can contest this, but until I see proof, I do not believe it is possible to use ISBoxer.

If they do not use a similar technology enforcement as truebox on their relaxed box servers (or implement one that doesn't work), then people will most definitely use ISBoxer and build armies, which will definitely turn a portion of the player base off from playing on that server. And by the way "relaxed boxing" is a DPG term, not mine.

I didn't think any of that was hard to derive from my original post, but maybe you didn't have your helmet and goggles on when you read it the first time.
 
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alavaz

Trakanon Raider
1,952
690
20d 3h 11m
Next time, just tell us up front that you're retarded and we can save a lot of time just ignoring you
Lol you've done everything but ignore me.

Prove it though. Let me see your screenies of multiple instances of EQ running on the same PC with isboxer going on a truebox server. Otherwise I straight up don't believe you.

Doesn't have to be Armpitburner either, any of you who claim that you can get around truebox and run a box army from a single pc with isboxer on a truebox server, prove it.

Oh and I'd also like to see if you stay connected after that first key broadcast.
 
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Mrniceguy

Molten Core Raider
478
268
8d 5h 28m
If you recall as well, Ragefire & Lockjaw introduced pick zones (load balancing back then). However, they were only introduced in a few of the zones (mostly low level zones to help the initial levelling rush). This was the list of zones they introduced "load balancing" for:
Consider the above list, then consider a zone such as SolB. Good luck getting GEBs when there is only 1 version of the zone. I think it was Midgetts who essentially claimed this camp for himself and was even selling the rights to hold it for him when he wanted to sleep.

Anyway, eventually they opened up the zones available for "load balancing" and most zones became available to /pick in. But it was too little too late, and so they launched Phinigel - truebox, with instancing (Agents of Change), and the improved pick zones.

Yeah, man that's just not true. Picks included all zones besides like Hate/Fear before Kunark launched. Months before Phinny was even announced. RF/LJ both still had very healthy populations when /picks were added.

AoC, shorter unlocks and boxing rules all played a big part in making Phinny as popular as it was.

We have a situation now where like 80% of the population of a new TLP doesn't box at all. Like 18% box a group or a couple and play by the rules and 2% just break the rules and truebox doesn't really effect them. The 18% spends a lot of time complaining about the 2% and ignoring the concerns of the 80%.
 

Korillo

Lord Nagafen Raider
490
329
36d 5h 0m
Yeah, man that's just not true. Picks included all zones besides like Hate/Fear before Kunark launched. Months before Phinny was even announced. RF/LJ both still had very healthy populations when /picks were added.

AoC, shorter unlocks and boxing rules all played a big part in making Phinny as popular as it was.

We have a situation now where like 80% of the population of a new TLP doesn't box at all. Like 18% box a group or a couple and play by the rules and 2% just break the rules and truebox doesn't really effect them. The 18% spends a lot of time complaining about the 2% and ignoring the concerns of the 80%.

Solb, hole picks etc weren't added at launch on Ragefire. They were added before Phinny but not at launch so it further soured the experience on Ragefire for Classic EQ. Phinny came with them at the start.
 
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Mrniceguy

Molten Core Raider
478
268
8d 5h 28m
Solb, hole picks etc weren't added at launch on Ragefire. They were added before Phinny but not at launch so it further soured the experience on Ragefire for Classic EQ. Phinny came with them at the start.

Correct. All zones didn't start with picks. But what i'm saying is wrong is that the lack of picks killing the server. The reality is both those servers still had massive populations before and after they added picks to the vast majority of zones. What you're talking about was a month one thing. They still had enough players for like 5+ guilds to be in GM rotations on both server. They still had thousands and thousands of players the day Kunark launched. People didn't stop complaining about boxers on the forums after most zones had picks.
 
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Ikkan

Lord Nagafen Raider
165
222
7d 12h 0m
Lol you've done everything but ignore me.

Prove it though. Let me see your screenies of multiple instances of EQ running on the same PC with isboxer going on a truebox server. Otherwise I straight up don't believe you.

Doesn't have to be Armpitburner either, any of you who claim that you can get around truebox and run a box army from a single pc with isboxer on a truebox server, prove it.

Oh and I'd also like to see if you stay connected after that first key broadcast.
I've 12boxed on truebox servers. It's incredibly easy with VMs and MQ2.
 

alavaz

Trakanon Raider
1,952
690
20d 3h 11m
I've 12boxed on truebox servers. It's incredibly easy with VMs and MQ2.
I don't know about "incredibly" easy, but that also doesn't really refute my point. You aren't launching more than 1 instance of EQ from the same PC.

I've also seen the guy who had like 18 garage sale PCs, monitors, numpads and a wooden dowel contraption to mechanically control it all.
 

Louis

Trakanon Raider
2,836
1,105
81d 8h 49m
Lol you've done everything but ignore me.

Prove it though. Let me see your screenies of multiple instances of EQ running on the same PC with isboxer going on a truebox server. Otherwise I straight up don't believe you.

Doesn't have to be Armpitburner either, any of you who claim that you can get around truebox and run a box army from a single pc with isboxer on a truebox server, prove it.

Oh and I'd also like to see if you stay connected after that first key broadcast.
Bro you think those massive box armies running around are actually 1 pc to 1 characters. Outside of 2 or 3 psychos, they arent.There are a couple of ways to bypass it and if you do not believe it then you just aren't in the know.
 

Ikkan

Lord Nagafen Raider
165
222
7d 12h 0m
I don't know about "incredibly" easy, but that also doesn't really refute my point. You aren't launching more than 1 instance of EQ from the same PC.

I've also seen the guy who had like 18 garage sale PCs, monitors, numpads and a wooden dowel contraption to mechanically control it all.
"BuT a Vm MeAnS iT iSnT tHe SaMe Pc" is one of the shittiest moving the goal posts arguments I've heard in some time.
 

DickTrickle

Macho Ma'am
9,652
10,520
124d 3h 11m
I don't know about "incredibly" easy, but that also doesn't really refute my point. You aren't launching more than 1 instance of EQ from the same PC.

I've also seen the guy who had like 18 garage sale PCs, monitors, numpads and a wooden dowel contraption to mechanically control it all.
Except it does. Using VMs means you only have one physical box, or at least far less physical boxes than instances of EQ. I don't get why you're so fixated on ISboxer being the only possible solution.

Do you really think that notorious box armies on true box servers actually have 54 to 72 real computers?
 

alavaz

Trakanon Raider
1,952
690
20d 3h 11m
Bro you think those massive box armies running around are actually 1 pc to 1 characters. Outside of 2 or 3 psychos, they arent.There are a couple of ways to bypass it and if you do not believe it then you just aren't in the know.
Prove it to me bro. Let me see it, let's put it to rest.
Except it does. Using VMs means you only have one physical box, or at least far less physical boxes than instances of EQ. I don't get why you're so fixated on ISboxer being the only possible solution.

Do you really think that notorious box armies on true box servers actually have 54 to 72 real computers?
Show me them 54 boxers using VMs and shit. Yall could win this for real. Just get that proof.