EQ TLP - Yelinak (True-Box Timelocked Progression)

Only on FOH can a group of man babies ignore years of clear bans or exploits, and jump Straight to “if I have a voip program installed they will treat it the same as if I’m bypassing the rules of the server using hacked together 3rd party tools that integrate directly into the game”.

Should I be shocked? I mean these are the morons who idolize nazi Germany and think of you get a flu shot the government is going to choke you to death with a tranny dick.

A sane person sees that forum post and thinks “wow that’s very vague but I’m sure if I apply some logic we can avoid ban”

A FOh autist sees it and goes “reading alakazam for a quest guide is exploiting the game if you really think about it”

Breakdown said:

A sane person sees that forum post and thinks “wow that’s very vague but I’m sure if I apply some logic we can avoid ban”

A FOh autist sees it and goes “reading alakazam for a quest guide is exploiting the game if you really think about it”

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You're the retard who thinks a log parser is an exploit even though the official forum has had a stickied guide on how to use one for years. I guess players should be grateful there's a lower bar of dumb that somehow DPG hasn't found yet, even if you have. Think about how this destroys your dumb arguments: a program you call an obvious exploit is fully accepted by the company.

And no one actually thinks voice chat is an exploit, only that the wording ambiguity is dumb and DPG could do better for everyone's benefit. Then again, if someone is dumb enough to genuinely think a log parser is an exploit, there's probably someone dumb enough to genuinely think voice chat is.

And what the fuck are you talking about this forum idolizing Nazi Germany? Are you off meds? Yeah, there's some nuts here but you painting the whole forum as such is such pathetic butthurt, especially when a bunch of EQ posters here don't even go to the politics forum.

guess ill get showeq running on my 2nd computer again... or maybe just docker on windows on my eq pc

The problem isn't that we think voip or parsers are going to get us banned. The problem is that there's a wealth of programs along the range from discord to mq2 and we don't know where to draw the line, with boxing assistance usually being the gray area.

This also misses the real problem behind this which is that the rules are deliberately vague not because the company is dumb, but because they WANT TO BE VAGUE and that's the point. They want to be able to ban for any reason if the circumstances warrant it, and the reason some of us are salty, is because those circumstances might be hugely personal or arbitrary. I'll give a long-winded example picking on beimouth because I do like the guy even if he's thin skinned on the forums.

Let's say tomorrow that secrets drops secparse, which does everything gamparse does but better and using less resources. It then lets you link to secrequest.com and compare parses of fights with others and even get rankings for players and guilds. Everyone starts using secparse, and almost nobody still uses gamparse. Next, people start insulting gamparse users. You still use that? What are you, literally retarded? People start getting called retards all over. Posts and threads get nuked. We assume it's for saying retard. So, people decide to just stop saying retard... by saying gamparse instead. You died running through kith? How gamparsed are you? Kerafyrmia lost another dps race despite more numbers that guild is so gamparse holy shit. At this point, does anyone think it's unlikely that they may start banning for secparse.exe use?

Guess what. Absurd or petty shit like my dumb hypothetical already happen. Many staff are beyond any doubt suspending people for the crime of pissing off them, a close friend, or some manner of interfering with their side income. Then they just need a reason to suspend to get revenge andor protect their rmt income. If EVERYTHING is illegal, that's easy... so everything is illegal. And that's bullshit.

Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed.

Interesting snippet out of their "what constitutes as cheating" thread.

I do believe any program that makes boxing easier would fall under this criteria. Otherwise, what could it possibly be referencing? The word "assist" is quite interesting because it doesn't necessarily have to make it possible, just easier.

yerm said:

Guess what. Absurd or petty shit like my dumb hypothetical already happen. Many staff are beyond any doubt suspending people for the crime of pissing off them, a close friend, or some manner of interfering with their side income. Then they just need a reason to suspend to get revenge andor protect their rmt income. If EVERYTHING is illegal, that's easy... so everything is illegal. And that's bullshit.

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We've walked this dog many times here before. They don't need a reason to ban you - no game company does. Nor does any restaurant, store, job, etc. It's the right to refuse service.

No one can truly protect themselves from any organization "finding a reason."

It's sounds to me like you guys are trying to pull the equivalent of taking a break from smoking weed three days before your piss test and then blaming your lack of a job on the companies unethical urinalysis with poorly defined parameters.

alavaz said:

We've walked this dog many times here before. They don't need a reason to ban you - no game company does. Nor does any restaurant, store, job, etc. It's the right to refuse service.

No one can truly protect themselves from any organization "finding a reason."

It's sounds to me like you guys are trying to pull the equivalent of taking a break from smoking weed three days before your piss test and then blaming your lack of a job on the companies unethical urinalysis with poorly defined parameters.

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A restaurant that just throws people out for no reason stops seeing patronage pretty quickly. It's not that they can't suspend, it's that they don't want it to look bullshit, but it actually is bullshit. They could randomly suspend and say "you fat fucks need to touch grass, and take a shower during your week off" and get away with it, but it's bad business. The vague policies are their cover to try to make it where when someone gets got, its assumed they did something actually wrong.

Further, there are issues of scope, and unlike some small store it's not always the same dudes behind the cs actions. That's where the arbitrary term keeps coming up. Without a clear and uniform policy, you are never sure how a gm will respond, and you get shit like mass petitioning until someone is falsely punished on one hand, or mass appealing until someone forgives blatant wrongdoing on the other. It's garbage. Even if we didn't agree with the exact policy, we'd like one that's clear so we can point to it and maybe follow it and feel reasonably safe if we aren't violating it.

Zog said:

Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed.

Interesting snippet out of their "what constitutes as cheating" thread.

I do believe any program that makes boxing easier would fall under this criteria. Otherwise, what could it possibly be referencing? The word "assist" is quite interesting because it doesn't necessarily have to make it possible, just easier.

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Yeah, sounds like no to software KVM... And then one is reminded they have code (that is used) to allow or disallow IsBoxer. Shit like that is why people still aren't sure of the actual rules.

I thought it was interesting that in the latest CM's explanations, it's more generalized and ambiguous than the cheating memo. From "We do not allow the use of any third party programs that modify the game client or its memory data" to "Any sort of 3rd party programs, scripts or anything that would modify the game or the game experience." Game experience really can be all encompassing.

alavaz said:

It's sounds to me like you guys are trying to pull the equivalent of taking a break from smoking weed three days before your piss test and then blaming your lack of a job on the companies unethical urinalysis with poorly defined parameters.

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I really don't think that's true. Anyone who used MQ or its derivatives, or SEQ, knew they were cheating. They might rationalize it was okay but they knew.

People who use software KVM and did not broadcast did not think that. Now, who knows?

They have code to enable or disable ISBoxer. They openly turned it on for Rizlona. There was no hush hush deal about it, it was on the forums. Reconcile that with your black and white view of things. If a policy changed, it seems like something they should explain.

I still reserve the possibility that all software KVM users who got banned either broadcast or previously used other cheats, but given DPG's inconsistency it's hard to put much faith in them.

DickTrickle said:

People who use software KVM and did not broadcast did not think that. Now, who knows?

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This is pretty clearly against Truebox. Kinda like saying "i used MQ on truebox but didn't keystroke broadcast".

It's not like they had a partnership with hardware providers to try to sell more equipment. Anyone who thinks truebox was just to force more pc use and ignores boxing sentiments is pretty autistic or retarded. Why would they care how many pcs you own? They care that fippy and ragefire tlp sets were obliterated by box crews.

The rather obvious point of truebox was that playing 3+ characters would be inefficient and incrementally less so the more you played at a time. If something lets you 6box even somewhat effectively on a truebox server it is against at least the spirit of their rules, even if their definitions suck. They simply don't want you "competitively" 6boxing there. Off by yourself, inefficiently, or when nobody is around? Maybe, they aren't clear. Trampling on good camps, racing for names or raid mobs, etc? Fairly fucking obvious that one human with numerous chars doing this was not what they wanted.

EQ tlp is all about executing your plan. The game is great to repeat because you get to try to get the most out of your hours every time.

just like the real world, some will cut corners, commit crimes, and operate on a whole ‘nother level - it’s what makes it fun and gross at the same time.

you chain pull and perfectly box for great xp? Nice work. This son of a bitch has 19 mages

Mrniceguy said:

This is pretty clearly against Truebox. Kinda like saying "i used MQ on truebox but didn't keystroke broadcast".

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Is it pretty clear when there's actual boxes you're switching to?

A True Box Progression Server is a place where players are only allowed to play one EverQuest account at a time on their computer.

Doing any of the following on Phinigel may result in action being taken against your Daybreak Account:

• Playing multiple characters at the same time from a single computer.
• Using 3rd party software.
• Any method to send one key press to multiple characters.

Doing any of the following on ANY server may result in action being taken against your Daybreak Account:

• Unattended Gameplay: Any method that lets a character take actions while you’re not at your keyboard.
• Playing on virtual machines.
• Any attempt to circumvent the /pickzone timer.

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If literally all you used software KVM for is to switch mouse/keyboard control to another actual box, the only rule broken above is the amorphous third party software rule, which many things break and is the entire crux of the discussion. The functionality is no different than a hardware KVM. And it would be slower than actually having the boxes and a num pad setup, so it's actually less effective than full manual trueboxing. Like I've said before, I doubt most six+ boxers are using software KVM for purely one to one switching, but lesser numbers surely did.

And, again, maybe they are competent enough to only ban KVM users who were broadcasting. I don't know. I certainly don't put much stock in what banned people claim were their actions.

When the rule is "Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed." and yet they specifically allow ISBoxer (which can broadcast) on Rizlona and Live servers, how does that not completely undermine any consistency in their rules? There's plenty of complaints of boxers monopolizing certain areas on Live, even with so much stuff being done in instances, so it's not like it's doesn't happen on Live either.

I think they really just want to instill enough uncertainty in the general populace that only a certain amount of people box and only a certain amount of them box competitively -- without cutting out all the money from boxing. Their new relaxed truebox rules are a clear sign they still value boxing revenue but they're never going to properly invest in human resources to augment their software solutions, so it's always going to be this vague, inconsistent tug of war over boxing.

When truebox originally came out it was crystal clear the original intent was against key broadcasting and that the intent was for you to be using separate boxes with separate KVM. Years of inaction made it less clear and now they are enforcing closer to the original intent. Whether they have new proof or not who knows, I have always thought the act of boxing 4 or more characters effectively on a truebox server is in itself proof of cheating.

DickTrickle said:

If literally all you used software KVM for is to switch mouse/keyboard control to another actual box, the only rule broken above is the amorphous third party software rule, which many things break and is the entire crux of the discussion. The functionality is no different than a hardware KVM. And it would be slower than actually having the boxes and a num pad setup, so it's actually less effective than full manual trueboxing. Like I've said before, I doubt most six+ boxers are using software KVM for purely one to one switching, but lesser numbers surely did.

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I'm aware. But the rule states 3rd party software. Not using 3rd party software to broadcast keystrokes ect. Pretty clear that 3rd party software that gives you the ability to break any of those other rules can get you banned.

Creslin said:

When truebox originally came out it was crystal clear the original intent was against key broadcasting and that the intent was for you to be using separate boxes with separate KVM.

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Considering they posted pics of desks cluttered with Keyboards and mice as "old school" boxing it definitely is not.
This is the original pic they used when announcing truebox. KMVs clearly weren't the intention. Multiplicity didn't even exist until like a year or two after Phinny was launched.

I took a suspension in the ban wave for "3rd party software" listed as their reason. Only 3rd party stuff I have for EQ is eq log parser, myseq, and gina. I mean I had already quit vaniki at that point so it doesnt matter really. Thought its stupid what they are doing.
I dont multibox or anything, so it clearly wasnt that. They just suspend arbitrarily

DickTrickle said:

I really don't think that's true. Anyone who used MQ or its derivatives, or SEQ, knew they were cheating. They might rationalize it was okay but they knew.

People who use software KVM and did not broadcast did not think that. Now, who knows?

They have code to enable or disable ISBoxer. They openly turned it on for Rizlona. There was no hush hush deal about it, it was on the forums. Reconcile that with your black and white view of things. If a policy changed, it seems like something they should explain.

I still reserve the possibility that all software KVM users who got banned either broadcast or previously used other cheats, but given DPG's inconsistency it's hard to put much faith in them.

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I don't have a black and white view of things. I'm on the side of don't be a dick and use your best judgment when it comes to using 3rd party programs. You can be banned for any reason, not just programs. I'll be honest, I don't think that even if you guys had a list of programs you'd be happy though, there'd still be some other issue to screech about.

Cupcaek said:

I took a suspension in the ban wave for "3rd party software" listed as their reason. Only 3rd party stuff I have for EQ is eq log parser, myseq, and gina. I mean I had already quit vaniki at that point so it doesnt matter really. Thought its stupid what they are doing.
I dont multibox or anything, so it clearly wasnt that. They just suspend arbitrarily

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