EQN:Landmark Beta Starts March 26th!

kaid_sl said:

I think if you can blow those buildings up with your spells and attacks any flatness would be more than made up for with the holy shit factor of destructibility.

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I can see that argument. I just hope they take advantage of it in some cool ways. When I say flat I mostly mean textures and colors leave a lot to be desired. Jeff gave a "we'll comment later" on normal mapping which would go a long way in bringing some of the buildings to life.

Daidraco_sl said:

I didnt know that there was limitations like that on the engine until Collete or w/e her name is started describing how players were having to create a campfire and shrink it down to a size that you cant see it disguised behind another item just so they could have smoke. Looking more into things like that, I can tell that they, or Collete and her crew rather, have a "Vision" because they have to be pushed into implementing some things. Hopefully the angle stuff you're talking about is a limitation of the engine for whatever reason, rather than some dumb ass reason they dont want players to have that option.

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they need to embrace that. admittedly, haven't played in a while now. so I don't know for sure how expansive props are at this point. but playing wildstar and seeing the crazy shit you can do in that, with JUST props, is pretty remarkable.
Players jumping through crazy hurdles to make "stairs" with voxels. when a prop stair would do it faster/easier.

Time is obviously an issue. they can add props to make the game much more fun and enjoyable now. or work on the base voxels, water, caves etc.. so the base game is actually there..

New patch today will have guilds and glass.

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There are some pretty complex looking props now.

I think SOE is trying to walk a fine line, because they want players to be able to monetize some of their creations. Who is going to buy someone's spiral voxel staircase when they can buy a prop staircase that looks better?

Of course, the main difference is that voxels are destructible and props are not.

Funny, was just looking at their marketplace and I guess theseStarter Packshave been up for awhile. Some of the stuff in the marketplace isinteresting,
I just don't think they'll ever have the population to support it.
I remember Smedley mentioned as a F2P game, they'll need participation in the marketplace to generate revenue.
At this point it almost feels like the vast majority of early adopters where there because of EQN and would jump ship whenever EQN comes along (with another buy-in alpha/beta) leaving a super small niche as a playerbase.
On mine and a couple other islands I've looked at, the active claims have dropped to less than 10 still paying upkeep.

Voxel Vision
VV has received a bit of a revamp from the code side, in order to increase performance.
Curved / contoured surfaces should now display with more accuracy.
The client should no longer stall significantly when attempting to display detailed geometry.
Attempting to build with Voxel Vision active should not result in single digit FPS.

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Best news Ive seen in a patch, yet.

Lenas_sl said:

I think SOE is trying to walk a fine line, because they want players to be able to monetize some of their creations. Who is going to buy someone's spiral voxel staircase when they can buy a prop staircase that looks better?

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Thats kind of how I feel about the marketplace, even though most of it looks generic. If they would just start allowing players to somehow start designing and publishing their own doodads, then I believe they would make more money. Id much rather buy an "Elaborately Themed Keg" made by a player, instead of "Generic_Keg_01" made by an uninspired designer. But if SoE is publishing so many versions, then I just dont see the market ever becoming "alive." I feel like they are going down a route that will stifle the market instead.

arallu_sl said:

I just don't think they'll ever have the population to support it.
I remember Smedley mentioned as a F2P game, they'll need participation in the marketplace to generate revenue.
At this point it almost feels like the vast majority of early adopters where there because of EQN and would jump ship whenever EQN comes along (with another buy-in alpha/beta) leaving a super small niche as a playerbase.

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Im honestly starting to believe that they are just going to incorporate EQ: Landmark into EQ: Next. Maybe by adding instanced islands in certain areas, or making plots into your own housing plot. Right now, it just seems like Landmark and Next will be redundant running right next to each other. IE. We're beta testing the shit out of EQ:Next as they build it.

Daidraco_sl said:

IE. We're beta testing the shit out of EQ:Next as they build it.

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Well, duh.

However, I seriously doubt that they'll just switch Landmark over to being the actual EQN alpha/beta and later a part of EQN because they dont want skyscrapers and AT-ATs in EQN. Even some of the early access cosmetics from Landmark are not appropriate for EQN unless you want to roleplay a sci-fi away team.

One nice change in the patch is boosting upkeep times for claims to 15 day instead of 8. I have been on so many trips this summer that I just gave up on trying to maintain my claims but with the extra window it would be easier to get the claims up and in place for a while. Sounds like at least PVP combat will be shown at SOE live at least in its early form which should be fun especially if you can do terrain wrecking moves. Good old fashion lego fun invite people over to your fancy thing you made and have fun blowing it to hell.

Very nice wood plank effect on the walkway well done.

Daidraco_sl said:

Thats kind of how I feel about the marketplace, even though most of it looks generic. If they would just start allowing players to somehow start designing and publishing their own doodads, then I believe they would make more money. Id much rather buy an "Elaborately Themed Keg" made by a player, instead of "Generic_Keg_01" made by an uninspired designer.

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That's exactly what's going to happen. SOE is going to allow talented modelers to create something outside of the game and import as props / sell on the marketplace.

Daidraco_sl said:

Im honestly starting to believe that they are just going to incorporate EQ: Landmark into EQ: Next. Maybe by adding instanced islands in certain areas, or making plots into your own housing plot. Right now, it just seems like Landmark and Next will be redundant running right next to each other. IE. We're beta testing the shit out of EQ:Next as they build it.

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Actually it's the complete opposite. Landmark and EQ Next are diverging almost entirely. Their only point of connection is the tools and such used in Landmark are what's going to build the world in EQ Next. Beyond that, there is no connection.

Archeiron_sl said:

On a whim, I picked up both Landmark and Wildstar in June with the intent to play Wildstar and have a look at Landmark a little bit. I dropped Wildstar and have really enjoyed even the current version of Landmark.

I have no background with 3D tools, 3D design, or art of any sort for that matter, so this is all a learning curve for me. That said, it is scarily addictive once you overcome the initial hurdles and get into it. I have no idea if this game will become popular, and I am not sure if I will be excited about the rest of the game as it expands, but it is crazily fun at the moment. Count me as one of the 20% that got hooked.

All three of my initial builds are here:
Flickr: clerkenwell's Photostream

Latest piece (WIP):

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Fine work, my friend.

Archeiron_sl said:

On a whim, I picked up both Landmark and Wildstar in June with the intent to play Wildstar and have a look at Landmark a little bit. I dropped Wildstar and have really enjoyed even the current version of Landmark.

I have no background with 3D tools, 3D design, or art of any sort for that matter, so this is all a learning curve for me. That said, it is scarily addictive once you overcome the initial hurdles and get into it. I have no idea if this game will become popular, and I am not sure if I will be excited about the rest of the game as it expands, but it is crazily fun at the moment. Count me as one of the 20% that got hooked.

All three of my initial builds are here:
Flickr: clerkenwell's Photostream

Latest piece (WIP):

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I tried to build this thingy but round, could not finish the roofs part, tools and me using it were simply lacking.

Lenas_sl said:

That's exactly what's going to happen. SOE is going to allow talented modelers to create something outside of the game and import as props / sell on the marketplace.

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I should have emphasized the "start allowing" part more. Theyre trying to make money off box sales for a game in beta, when they could keep an active and profitable population if they went ahead with the implementation of that market.

Elidroth_sl said:

Actually it's the complete opposite. Landmark and EQ Next are diverging almost entirely. Their only point of connection is the tools and such used in Landmark are what's going to build the world in EQ Next. Beyond that, there is no connection.

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You would definitely be the person to know. So there is no "duh" about it . Im just failing to see how Landmark is going to capture a large audience. I believe Next is going to attract a much different audience than what is going to play and design things in Landmark. My friends and I didnt get into Landmark, but we religiously play MMO's for example. So splitting the population between the two games just sounds like they are only hurting themselves when it comes to the market. I also dont see why they would waste the extra server architecture and upkeep instead of just placing these islands in an instanced environment that is accessed through Next. Maybe Im just being short sighted, but /shrug.

Daidraco_sl said:

Im just failing to see how Landmark is going to capture a large audience. I believe Next is going to attract a much different audience than what is going to play and design things in Landmark. My friends and I didnt get into Landmark, but we religiously play MMO's for example. So splitting the population between the two games just sounds like they are only hurting themselves when it comes to the market.

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If the two games appeal to different players, how is it hurting anything? You're contradicting your own arguments here. There are people who like to play games, and there are people who like to build stuff. For the most part, I think they're different people, with very little cross-population in the genres. So two games won't steal from each other's population at all realistically.

Every tool that goes into Landmark, every technology, will be available for use by Next. Makes perfect sense to me.

Elidroth_sl said:

If the two games appeal to different players, how is it hurting anything? You're contradicting your own arguments here. There are people who like to play games, and there are people who like to build stuff. For the most part, I think they're different people, with very little cross-population in the genres. So two games won't steal from each other's population at all realistically.

Every tool that goes into Landmark, every technology, will be available for use by Next. Makes perfect sense to me.

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Not steal from each other, but rather, never have the chance to cross market between the two. That is, unless the market itself is linked between both games which I think is where you're headed. Im glad that everything that is going into Landmark will be available in Next, but I still think its redundant. Why keep them separate if they have so much in common? Maybe Im just being thick, but I dont see the point in keeping them separate.

- Also, I wasnt fighting against my point but pointing out that I would never play Landmark on its own. If Landmark was incorporated within Next, then I might eventually be interested. Just like I had a mild interest in Wildstar housing. Follow? My mild interest might eventually create a sell in the Landmark Market.

Basic guild functions are in today...fyi

New Walmart cards for Landmark give SC and items . (And access)

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I was thinking last night, that this whole sub-voxel thing has drifted landmark away from their original goal, and it may have ruined their vision of what Landmark was supposed to become, and possibly the game altogether. I imagine once they figured they could release their dev tool to the public, the idea started out a Minecraft++, with better graphics, the ability to do basic smoothing, with a prop store and outfits etc to bring in cash. Building was thought to be only *slightly* more advanced than minecraft due to smoothing, but still easy enough that anyone could pick it up.

But then it turned into this: (Just watch the first minute for the 'intuitive' method of creating spirals)

That's cool and all, but it seems building has turned into how best to exploit the buggy voxel engine. So now when a new player runs around, see's this cool spiral column and goes back to his claim to try to build it, he'll spend a few hours trying to make it in a logical way, which will fail, then he'll spend hours on youtube learning about the voxel sub-culture, learn about the engine, and finally come back to make his spiral. Or he will get frustrated in 10 minutes and stop playing.

If the engine was kept simple, without all this sub-voxel crap, it probably would be a lot more popular. But it's too late to take away all these 'cool' features of the voxel engine, so their stuck. At this point it seems they have 2 options. Admit Landmark will never be as big as they hoped, using it solely as a EQNext feature test server, or revamp the ENTIRE tool set to make building with micro-voxels and all their iterations a 1 click process.

It will be interesting, but I bet there are some serious discussions going on over at SOE over Landmark these days.