Erenshor

Stackable planar stones, ohhhh yeah.

What's your dps against pre-raid targets look like ? I didn't notice any significant differences to anything other than windblade. Given class, I'm guessing it is just AC/resists and you are still high because you aren't retarded about using razor arrow - the sim guys never refresh it with trick shot as far as I can see. ( razor arrow is % damage and not affected by AC )

Arcanists leapfrog everyone super fast, presumably melee slowly catch up with gear, although I haven't reached that point.

My main concern would be that stuff would be too easy and get rolled over, but it seems reasonably tight on default difficulty, there's some rough mitigation, resist and dps checks at the various raid tiers.

A lot of sivacrux/planar stone farming incoming ;p

velk said:

What's your dps against pre-raid targets look like ?

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There's a screenshot further up the page. 16k+ just like in the one from today. It could probably be higher, but I really hate trying to target the things to reset my cooldowns and then get back on the correct thing to dps again. The whole process is way too clunky. In the end I went back to including the Reaver in my raid in the hopes that his new debuffs will boost everyone else enough to make up for doing half the dps of Stormcaller #3.

velk said:

My main concern would be that stuff would be too easy and get rolled over, but it seems reasonably tight on default difficulty, there's some rough mitigation, resist and dps checks at the various raid tiers.

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Yeah, it absolutely was not tuned like he said it was going to be. A single trash mob pull is more difficult than any previous boss. I've got two fully decked out groups and a third with the BiS weapons but missing a few armor pieces and this shit is rough. I had to respec my paladin to 3k AC to be able to tank trash effectively and the druids can't keep up with the damage from bosses because of how much they love to AE (combined with having armor and/or resist penetration). Basically stuck farming trash for the new armor sets until I have them complete for everyone, plus a lot of sivakruxes and planar stones because a lot of the gear is only better stats once fully upgraded.

On that topic, I'm not entirely clear what the point of the +X upgrade is. I upgraded my stormcaller's new gloves from base to +1 and it was a tiny upgrade (5 to most stats), then I upgraded the item with sivakruxes and it turns out the blue sparkles just overwrite the green and you're back to +0. If the gains from +1 to +5 are linear there's no way it's worth the grind compared to just using a couple sivakruxes and a planar stone and being done with it.

Biggest problem I have with the raid stuff is that I feel like I'm fighting the UI instead of the bosses. I've had zero success with stuff that should be simple -- like pulling two mobs and trying to tell the second paladin to offtank while the whole raid kills the first one. If you assign group 1 to target A, group 2 to target B and group 3 to assist group 1, then click the pull all button what happens is the paladin in group 1 pulls like normal, but the one group 2 "pulls" but his whole group ends up fighting the mob right on that spot instead of trying to come back to where I am. I've tried not using the all-pull button and while it does get all the mobs pulled back away from where other shit might aggro, the actual tanking is inconsistent and often the paladin in group 1 just ends up tanking everything anyway. Even when the tanking happens as it should, you still end up with your dps split up instead of everyone focusing down one mob while only the tank hits the other. I just gave up and have been making the main paladin tank 2-3 things himself, it's far less headache and with 3k AC he can more or less do it against the basic trash mobs. I'm still at a loss as to what to do vs. the more 'elite' ones, like wave 4 of Vitheo's.

The new party spread slider is a nice idea, but even the AOE from trash is still too large and everyone gets hit by it constantly even with the slider maxed out. In the end it just causes more problems than it solves (out of range of healers, aggroing other mobs, etc.).

Unless I'm blind, there's much less control over raid roles than there is for normal group content. Like I can't tell my druids to not dps at all. Tank and MA is always linked, so apparently no way to set myself as MA and easily get all the dps to burn down adds with me. The only thing I've been able to adjust is to make the paladins not heal anyone but themselves, and even then they still burn through their mana in a matter of seconds in every fight.

No hotkeys for a lot of UI stuff is another pet peeve. At least until mods are updated there's a lot of stuff you have to click on with the mouse.

I still think it's a great update overall, but I really have to wonder what the hell his testers were doing for the past ~4 months. Certainly not generating much in the way of feedback, that's for sure.

Vorph said:

On that topic, I'm not entirely clear what the point of the +X upgrade is. I upgraded my stormcaller's new gloves from base to +1 and it was a tiny upgrade (5 to most stats), then I upgraded the item with sivakruxes and it turns out the blue sparkles just overwrite the green and you're back to +0. If the gains from +1 to +5 are linear there's no way it's worth the grind compared to just using a couple sivakruxes and a planar stone and being done with it.

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Apparently these are meant to be filler while farming upgrade items, like a green < blue < purple upgrade. Was a bit disappointing to me, was expecting to have to make +5 base items then upgrade them.

Biggest problem I have with the raid stuff is that I feel like I'm fighting the UI instead of the bosses. I've had zero success with stuff that should be simple -- like pulling two mobs and trying to tell the second paladin to offtank while the whole raid kills the first one. If you assign group 1 to target A, group 2 to target B and group 3 to assist group 1, then click the pull all button what happens is the paladin in group 1 pulls like normal, but the one group 2 "pulls" but his whole group ends up fighting the mob right on that spot instead of trying to come back to where I am. I've tried not using the all-pull button and while it does get all the mobs pulled back away from where other shit might aggro, the actual tanking is inconsistent and often the paladin in group 1 just ends up tanking everything anyway. Even when the tanking happens as it should, you still end up with your dps split up instead of everyone focusing down one mob while only the tank hits the other. I just gave up and have been making the main paladin tank 2-3 things himself, it's far less headache and with 3k AC he can more or less do it against the basic trash mobs. I'm still at a loss as to what to do vs. the more 'elite' ones, like wave 4 of Vitheo's.

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Yeah, the raid controls need some explanations of what they do and how they are intended to work. For your first example, I believe the intention is that you assign g2 to the off target and g1 to the main, then use the 'burn' button on the main, that will switch the group 2 dps off grp2 target to hit the main target instead and leave the g2 tank on their target.

The new party spread slider is a nice idea, but even the AOE from trash is still too large and everyone gets hit by it constantly even with the slider maxed out. In the end it just causes more problems than it solves (out of range of healers, aggroing other mobs, etc.).

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I think it is fight dependent, there's one fight with an aoe that becomes stronger the more targets it hits, that's the only one I use spread for at the moment.

No hotkeys for a lot of UI stuff is another pet peeve. At least until mods are updated there's a lot of stuff you have to click on with the mouse.

I still think it's a great update overall, but I really have to wonder what the hell his testers were doing for the past ~4 months. Certainly not generating much in the way of feedback, that's for sure.

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Yeah 100% on this - I have a gigantic ass monitor, the control buttons are tiny, hunting them down to click them is really clunky.

Pretty big improvement after getting a bunch of class armor and some new weapons for a few characters (including a new bow for myself). Some stuff just feels impossible still though. Like I killed the Frost+Inferno duo after several tries, then went and pulled a single trash mob in the next area and got wiped. Greater elementals are no fucking joke. Still can't beat the asshole at the end of the creek in forest world either. The AE is gigantic and always kills multiple people, and on top of that it heals him. Jinx and sidekick kicked my ass too, though I only tried that fight once. I barely put a dent in the ghost bear in wave 5 of Vitheo's arena before getting wiped there too, and having to either spend 1.25M gold per attempt or spend 250k and do the whole thing from the beginning gets old really fast. Beat the first boss in Soluna's but haven't tried the second pair because just killing two sunbringers at a time is dicey still, and 1 sunbringer + 2 paladins is a wipe. Some of the trash is WAY overtuned imo.


My dps is more than double what it was with pre-raid BiS. Main tank is 3200AC with about 30k hp, second tank is 3000AC and only about 20k hp. I really question the need for a third tank at this point too. I'm thinking the smart move would be to poach another druid from one of the guilds and run 4 healers, especially since there are fights which make you split your raid and one group is way out of range of the others. Druids are stupid easy to gear too since their armor comes from the zone with trash that is both highest in quantity and easiest to kill. Swapping the groups around so casters and melee are separate helped a bit too, much easier to get the right auras on everyone that way.

Yeah, 3 tanks isn't needed for anything I have found so far ( other than trash ironically ), generally if you have three things to tank you've fucked up a mechanic.

I'm considering swapping one for another arcanist and just having a dps reaver provide the resist debuff for that group. Another druid is valid too, but I am having more trouble meeting dps checks.

3200AC is suuuuper low, you will probably find it easier if you respec main tank to mostly def.

velk said:

3200AC is suuuuper low, you will probably find it easier if you respec main tank to mostly def.

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Did more upgrading today, he's at like 4750 AC and 30k hp now. Almost everything replaced with raid gear and purple, so not really a whole lot more I can do besides getting whatever the top tier bosses drop.

What bosses have you been able to do? Even with a lot of upgraded raid gear I'm hitting a wall in each zone, and in most cases it's trash not bosses.

Fernalla - beat High Priest with just brute force rather than doing it "correctly" and Jinx isn't too bad even if I usually wipe the first time and have to come back to finish it since the sidekick stays dead, then got wiped by a single mushroom (more AOE) on the way to the scorpion in minotaur area after that, so I doubt I'm beating any of the bosses behind Jinx.
Brax - beat Frost & Inferno, but the trash after them is ridiculous. Dev said that that there's a 'tier 2' in each raid zone meant to tell you to go somewhere else... message received I guess.
Soluna - beat both animated weapons and the big guy in the middle, tried the duo but just way too much damage and I still haven't figured out what the gimmick is for that fight.
Vitheo - I get Opus to like 15% and then wipe every time. Another insane AOE that annihilates everyone but the tank.

I've got all the t1 and t2 down, plus some of the t3 - just got past the scorpion boss, which was my biggest struggle with the UI. Pro-tip there, trying to assign all three groups to an add because you need even the tank dps backfires horribly. It makes one of the dps groups decide that the boss is untanked and swap back to him.

Got close on mage t3 - just lacking a bit of dps in the burn phase still, working on gearing up an extra arcanist for that, but I forgot about ascension ranks, zzzz, that's going to take some time. At least I don't need to spend 20 mil trying to gamble a mage charm now.

I am also running low on crux/stone stockpile - I was trying to be conservative to start, but I don't think it's actually possible to get through the later tiers without,at a minimum, upgrading all the early raid gear to blue, and probably some choice purples on the main tank.

What do you mean by 'early' raid gear? Is there an entire second set of armor for each class or something? I haven't seen anything new from the tier 2 areas (and didn't realize there was tier 3 at all, but considering I still can't even reliably kill t2 trash..................).

I still don't get what I am doing wrong though. I see you and other people talk about using blues and a purple here and there... my shit's almost all purple on the most important sims and everyone is at least blues. My own stormcaller is 100% purple. Some guy on Steam forums said he had ~400% resists on his paladin with higher ac and hp than my MT with only ~200% across the board. Tank still isn't my problem anyway, it's that the rest of the raid just fucking melts the moment any of the mobs with ridiculous AE damage start nuking.

Didn't think about the ascension thing on the new druid I'm trying to set up to replace tank #3. Rest of the raid is pretty much maxed so playing catch-up there is going to suck. I guess if I'm going to go through that I might as well get another arcanist too just in case.

V velk have you gotten the blessing shrine? I spent a retarded amount of time exploring every bit of water in the two planes mentioned and haven't found anything that seems to be part of a quest.

I haven't seen any quests so far other than the Vitheo arena. There isn't a second set, as far as I can tell, but the T2s and T3s all have direct upgrades for set pieces - like the scorpion has some sexy tank gear ( the bp has nearly double the armor of the set bp ) and a ac/resist aura, which is handy.

There's a few early items that are just there to pump resists for aoe fights,like repellant ring and cosmic barrier. They were pretty helpful earlier on for aoe nonsense like when you have to fight a dragon while standing in lava.

velk said:

I haven't seen any quests so far other than the Vitheo arena.

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From the patch notes:

-If you’ve done the “Faded Entries” questline from early game dungeons, be SURE to re-read the Treasure Hunter’s Journal where that quest ended

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From talking to the dev dude, the reward is a reliquary station that lets you donate all the dupe equipment drops that are otherwise useless to guarantee an extra loot drop from bosses. I've made zero progress though, just a lot of wasted time because I don't even know what the hell I'm looking for. The book makes it sound like it's just a couple sparkly items on the ground you pick up (presumably the two halves of a map) but it's too damn vague to be of any use. Tried to get some help in discord, but that went nowhere too.

Whoops, I think i deleted every lore item yesterday to clean up the bank.

I'll have to find where that starts.

velk said:

Whoops, I think i deleted every lore item yesterday to clean up the bank.

I'll have to find where that starts.

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Finally finished it tonight. Definitely would've been easier had I not taken a long break before the raid patch because I probably wouldn't have completely forgotten about what turned out to be a painfully obvious solution to the quest. And yeah, you definitely need the treasure hunter's journal since you have to hand that to him along with the two artifacts to get your shrine.

Yeah I was talking to him about the UI and having to click so many buttons because nothing in the raid UI (and significant amounts of the old UI stuff) can be hotkeyed. He said that'd be part of the next big patch. Kind of sucks for now though, raids never should have been released with nothing but click functionality.

I'd swear I had the important group stuff hotkeyed before I took a break waiting for raids. Must have been one of the mods I had but nobody seems to be updating their stuff for 0.7. Erenshor-QOL actually still seems to work ok, especially the most important part (AH autopricing), but if it was the one that added hotkeys to 'assist MA', 'send tank to pull', etc. then I must be blind because I can't find them in there now.

Edit: NM those commands were part of the base game, they just aren't re-bindable to anything else. Shift+2 for assist MA and Shift+4 for tank pull. Still works in raids (for the tank in your group).

Man, these last few fights are frustrating as hell. There's just not enough info given (and what there is ends up in a event window with thousands of damage lines in it) to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing.


I don't think it's a gear issue at this point as everyone has almost full purple raid gear, but I'm still not even close to beating the scorpion or any of the 4 end bosses. Been beating my head against Soluna (since he has the tank gear) all afternoon and I'm no closer to winning than when I started.

I'm also realizing that trying to run two tanks just doesn't work very well. The game forces you to set a tank and MA (and even worse, links the roles together) in every group so my DPS Reaver in group 2 dies all the damn time because he ends up tanking an add that one of the paladins should grab, but they don't do until he drops.

I also should have brought in a third stormcaller instead of a fourth arcanist. I didn't realize until today that I can shoot their trick targets which massively increases my own dps, plus the sim stormcaller does just as much damage as an arcanist anyway.

For 2 tank settings, set main group to assigned, second tank grp to get adds, and no-tank grp to assist grp 2. If you have to no-tank group on get adds, the reaver will taunt shit and explode themselves yeah. although reaver is always first to die anyway due to aggressive stance and emit vitae.

For the scorpion, I think you have enough DPS from your screenshot ( although it's hard to tell, it varies a lot by target ) - what worked for me the first time was adding tanks and heals to one group then forcing the other two onto eggs as soon as they spawn - burn *should* do this in theory but they often seem a bit sluggish in switching.

One mildly spoiler thing for the gods is that the corruptors are a trap, it gets a lot easier when you realize how they work.

On arc/sc - sort of depends if your target has more armor or resists, but the bigger one is that in really long fights the SC will run OOM relatively quickly while the arcs won't. For Soluna kill my arcs were about 50% higher than SC. It's a fair point on stealing their trick targets, but honestly I spend more time staring at hp bars with the mouse hovering over where add buttons are going to appear than I do chaining trick shots 8(.

I've managed to get all the T3s, Soluna, Fernalla and Vitheo down, in that order. Brax still being stubborn.
Soluna is much easier than the others, Fernalla and Vitheo are sort of similar in difficulty - Fernalla is going to kill your tanks if you get unlucky* but Vitheo is absolutely going to kill your tanks no matter what, so technically he's harder, but constantly re-doing 10 min fights hoping to get lucky isn't a great experience either, so go in with 3 brez either way ;p. Fernalla seems to break the trend of 2 tanks - 3 is much safer.

*

I switched back to three tanks rather than try to work around the game's assumption. IMO Reaver is practically useless anyway. After removing him no one else's dps changed at all so his debuffs weren't making any difference and all I really lost was the 10k or so he was doing. Kept the 4th arcanist though; my other stormcaller has all the gear but none of it is upgraded and I don't have materials to waste at this point.

After dumping the Reaver I beat everything up through Soluna without too much trouble, just Vitheo, Brax, and Fernalla to go now. Biggest problem I had was the corruptor; I figured out the hp gating but even when I clicked burn on the voids the corruptor would keep taking damage and spawn the next one. Seeing a bow drop and then realizing it was int trash was really disappointing too.

Re: Brax, how high are you letting him buff himself before destroying a crystal? I was trying to get him down 25% before the first one with the assumption that the corruptor spawns would slow me down later on. He seems to have an ungodly amount of hp though, because I only got him to about 80% before he'd stacked it high enough (7 I think) to start killing people. Last attempt was before I killed Soluna and Xjeris though, so my tank is upgraded quite a bit now.

Edit: Vitheo finally down too.

Beat Fernalla easily this morning, then finally got Brax just now. That's one hell of a dps check, plus you have to plan the crystal breaks perfectly so you don't end up having to deal with a corrupter just as he starts getting up around 9 or 10 on his power up. Only death on the successful run was me, due to smacking an ice golem the moment it spawned... oops.


My dps reset but it was 44265. Every character had to have almost full purple raid gear with all the T2-3 upgrades to pull it off, he really wasn't messing around with the tuning for that fight.

Vorph said:

Beat Fernalla easily this morning, then finally got Brax just now. That's one hell of a dps check, plus you have to plan the crystal breaks perfectly so you don't end up having to deal with a corrupter just as he starts getting up around 9 or 10 on his power up. Only death on the successful run was me, due to smacking an ice golem the moment it spawned... oops.

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My dps reset but it was 44265. Every character had to have almost full purple raid gear with all the T2-3 upgrades to pull it off, he really wasn't messing around with the tuning for that fight.

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Who the hell rolls without the Scrubdaddy as a tank?!