Everquest II

Tearofsoul

Ancient MMO noob
1,791
1,256
I don't know about you guys, but I had great time in early EQ2 including the first couple expansions (DoF, KoS, EoF and RoK). I couldn't get into WoW at all but EQ2 was almost perfect to me after retiring from EQ. All those collection & heritage quests were awesome.
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
Grats on no longer being associated with shit, what are you working on now?
Aw man, so mean. :p

I can't possibly begrudge anyone for disliking EQ2; if you point out a flaw with the game I'm likely to agree with you about it. I still had some fondness for it in spite of that, though, and it was fun to work on for the time I was there.

As for me, I'm not working on anything at the moment. I had a bit of money saved up before I took the EQ2 job (wouldn't have taken a job in the games industry if I didn't!) so I'm finally enjoying some time off. There aren't many game companies I'd like to work for and I plan on staying in the San Diego area for the foreseeable future, so I'm just going to get a regular ass software development job and work on my own games on the side.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
I don't know about you guys, but I had great time in early EQ2 including the first couple expansions (DoF, KoS, EoF and RoK). I couldn't get into WoW at all but EQ2 was almost perfect to me after retiring from EQ. All those collection & heritage quests were awesome.
They lost me at The RoK expansion. The solo quest, half ass mimic wow killed the game they had until that point. Poor raid loot optimization, hotbar ability bloat paired with the "we know more than you peasants" attitude most of the devs had was the nail in the coffin. Tons of people left and never returned.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
I don't know about you guys, but I had great time in early EQ2 including the first couple expansions (DoF, KoS, EoF and RoK). I couldn't get into WoW at all but EQ2 was almost perfect to me after retiring from EQ. All those collection & heritage quests were awesome.
Agreed and my feelings exactly. There's more than you think that gave the game a chance that feel the same way. WoW wasn't for everyone, it really wasn't for me though I played it to run with old EQ friends during BC. I also understand why it was appealing and why many had to break up with SoE/EQ. Not only did many of us invest countless hours into a game and needed a change of scenery but SoE really dropped the ball time after time again (Not to mention the direction and face of the game was changing for the worst).

That being said, I always hoped that when the dust settled and WoW aged, we would arrive at this limbo state and EQ2 would be a solid game to fall back on. When WoW became a commercial success I knew the state of MMO's would come to this point. Everyone was trying to make oodles of money and the market quickly became saturated with mediocrity. Instead of capitalizing on a good name filled with nostalgia while the MMO world waited for the "next" best thing, SoE/DB has completely ignored their chance to be something. They continue to ignore what is (or could be) attractive about their catalog of games and slowly spiral into a pit of mediocrity. Thanks goodness for H1Z1 is all I can say and possibly PS2. If not for them, I would have little hope for their future.

What is amazing they use the nostalgia angle on social media, they generate so much excitement with progression servers, so it is blatantly obvious what could lead to their success. I guess I just don't get it.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
There are a load of cool, innovative things to be found in EQ2.

The entire class and combat system are not part of those things. That and the game engine are giant anchors that sink the whole ship.

It wasn't entirely unfixable but yeah, fears of another NGE are understandable (lose all the current players, gain next to nothing)

Like early on, you could fill an entire hotbar just for master strikes. WTF? Why wasn't that shit just a passive +% damage to whatever mob type? The bloat was out of control before you were even out of the first zone.
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
Yeah. Personally I really wanted to do another stat overhaul, but it's incredibly time-consuming, resource-intensive, and a difficult sell for both players and higher-ups, particularly since it's been done before with... questionable results.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Could have gone the loot-reset route, the system was there, but the scaling wasn't aggressive enough. Even pretty wimpy item effects were more valuable than the stat gain on items 10 or 20 levels higher.

Hell, WoW flat out dropped everyone's stats a whole decimal point and nobody gave a shit.

But at least you weren't EQ1. Hard capped for decades, fuck yeah!
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
Some of the EQ2 stats are sort of hard-capped now. There is an overcap conversion system for some of the stats (eg: excess haste converting to flurry), but eventually those stats will be capped as well and it greatly diminishes the desirability of certain buffs, as well.
 

Syringed_sl

shitlord
104
0
They lost me at The RoK expansion. The solo quest, half ass mimic wow killed the game they had until that point. Poor raid loot optimization, hotbar ability bloat paired with the "we know more than you peasants" attitude most of the devs had was the nail in the coffin. Tons of people left and never returned.
The Venril Sathir fight at RoK launch made a FUCK TON of my server's raiding guilds quit the game. My guild could do Trak with no wipes but would always have pre-fight jitters just thinking about having to go to Venril's Lair and then spend 30+ minutes afterwards fighting amongst each other after 2-3 wipes. I really don't think the dev team at that time understood the serious damage to the EQ2 community that fight had caused with how it was designed pre-nerf. I understand the fight was to get the absolute "best in slot" weapon for certain classes at that time but it was one of the worst experiences I've had in gaming ever next to having to camp Ragefire in EQ1.
 

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,704
34,866
It's too bad EQ2 got plagued with awful design decisions for so long. Hartsman was really starting to turn things around, but left shortly after the time things started changing for the better.

EQ2 was pretty amazing with a group of friends. We ran a group with Mystic, Shadowknight, Illusionist, and Dirge. It was an absolute blast and the dungeon design/crawling was the best I've seen since EQ1(although I've heard some good things about TSW). It was easily the most fun I have had in an MMO since the first 3ish months of Burning Crusade release and the only experience that compares since is the first 2ish months of GW2.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
ixian... has some of this stuff even been discussed? Is/was Smed ever involved? Who was the best and worst leader of EQ2? Just really curious of the inner workings and thought processes of EQ2.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Isn't fixing that as easy as steepening the stat curve in a level expansion?

Whoops, too late now.
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
Isn't fixing that as easy as steepening the stat curve in a level expansion?

Whoops, too late now.
Well, you have to remember that most stats are based on flat percentages rather than WoW-style ratings. There are some stats with curves like what you're talking about (like multi-attack), but it still has the net effect of impacting buff desirability and in general making those stats less interesting to chase.
 

Jait

Molten Core Raider
5,035
5,317
I remember when I first joined EQ2 Alloria-FoH we were going for server first (world second?) Matron I think it was - outdoor mob in KOS. And the server lag was so bad that all combat responsiveness went completely away. You were just mashing your buttons and hoping things were happening. HP bars would update in giant chunks. And no one else seemed to notice because for them it was totally normal.
Matron was on Mara, a different expansion. And it was still the case years later, and it was a unique encounter. Adds would spawn (on death?) and the fucking encounter turned into a slideshow. To be fair a lot of other encounters weren't like that and ran pretty smoothly. The raiding in EoF was some of the best in all the MMO's I ever played.

The server firsts on that mob were important for the unique ring that cut a recast time in half. Once that dropped on each server I don't think anyone ever bothered killing it again.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Well, you have to remember that most stats are based on flat percentages rather than WoW-style ratings. There are some stats with curves like what you're talking about (like multi-attack), but it still has the net effect of impacting buff desirability and in general making those stats less interesting to chase.
Whoops I was thinking EQ2 used ratings. Make lower level gear nerf itself? Heh that'd go over about as well as a Rick Grimes speech I'm sure.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
The Venril Sathir fight at RoK launch made a FUCK TON of my server's raiding guilds quit the game. My guild could do Trak with no wipes but would always have pre-fight jitters just thinking about having to go to Venril's Lair and then spend 30+ minutes afterwards fighting amongst each other after 2-3 wipes. I really don't think the dev team at that time understood the serious damage to the EQ2 community that fight had caused with how it was designed pre-nerf. I understand the fight was to get the absolute "best in slot" weapon for certain classes at that time but it was one of the worst experiences I've had in gaming ever next to having to camp Ragefire in EQ1.
As an enchanter, that fight fucking sucked. People could just not manage their mana well enough to not get one shot and we didnt have the tools to help keep them in the range they needed to be. Pure frustration. But Sebilis was a pretty awesome dungeon though.
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
Whoops I was thinking EQ2 used ratings. Make lower level gear nerf itself? Heh that'd go over about as well as a Rick Grimes speech I'm sure.
They were actually going to do that at some point (I think during the Sentinel's Fate beta, so way before my time as a dev), it was not received well, but from what I heard the execution was lacking.
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
They lost me at The RoK expansion. The solo quest, half ass mimic wow killed the game they had until that point. Poor raid loot optimization, hotbar ability bloat paired with the "we know more than you peasants" attitude most of the devs had was the nail in the coffin. Tons of people left and never returned.
EoF was great, RoK lost me as well. I didn't even finish to level my char, my friends vanished halfway through the trip to whatever was the new level cap (80 maybe) and I said "fuck it" and moved on to play other stuff.
Last time I tried to relog in EQ2, I took a quick look at my stuff: bags filled with items I had no idea what they did, gear with kilometric tooltips cluttering the whole screen, same engine issues of old times even with new beefy GPU, and last, but not by any means least, 6 hotbars full of shit, one alone was dedicated to buffs.

/bye

I always missed EQ2, it could have been a great game with a few changes, but it was born with a stupid combat system and never recovered fully.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
Is it not possible for us to get an EQ2Emu so we can just take this upon ourselves. I will make the time to help get this up and going. Especially if we could get a team together to make a really good vanilla PvP server.