Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,294
- 3,855
Everquest Legends
- Thread starter Arden
- Start date
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
- 21,620
- 18,882
I get the argument, but I think this is where people get way too hung up on the literal word "winning" in P2W and end up talking themselves into weird semantic corners. MMORPGs generally do not have a traditional "you win" screen. By this logic, almost nothing in an MMO could ever be P2W unless the cash shop literally mailed you a credits roll and deleted your character afterward. "Winning" in MMO terminology has always referred to gaining gameplay advantages, progression advantages, efficiency advantages, or competitive advantages through spending money.
Now, I do agree that server design massively changes how impactful those advantages are. Rulesets can absolutely reduce the social and competitive impact of XP boosts compared to old-school open-world EQ. But saying "there is no competition at all" isn't really true either. Players still compare progression, gear, efficiency, completion, economic wealth/accumulation, raid capability, character strength, etc. MMOs are inherently progression-driven social environments even when they're "casual-friendly".
The "nitro on an empty racetrack" analogy also kind of falls apart because the racetrack isn't actually empty. Other players still exist. Shared economies still exist. Social hierarchies still exist. Progression curves still exist. The more accurate analogy would be: "Everyone gets their own lane on the racetrack, so using nitro doesn't force other cars off the road." Which is fair. That absolutely lowers the impact, but the nitro still exists.
And honestly, I think where the conversation lands for me is that server structure determines whether a monetization system is mildly annoying, largely irrelevant, or genuinely harmful. A solo-friendly instanced server with XP pots is probably closer to "mostly harmless convenience monetization" than some ultra-competitive uninstanced TLP sweatfest. But I still don't buy the argument that monetized progression acceleration somehow ceases to be P2W entirely just because the environment softens the consequences.
- 3
Mrniceguy
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,045
- 572
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 30,806
- 60,807
We disagree on the impact. For a server like THJ the other players are 100% optional, so unless you choose to play with them what you or they do in terms of XP pots is utterly irrelevant. Same with the economy, social competitions, etc. You can do everything 100% solo, and in fact a lot of players enjoy to go 100% SSF instead of using baz for convenience.
Everyone gets their own racetrack, but they do share a snack shop.
- 2
Kaines
Potato Supreme
- 19,681
- 56,337
Mrniceguy
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,045
- 572
The racetrack is clearly being designed for the people using nitro, there is a shortcut jump that is only possible with the extra speed from Nitro.
Pharone
Trakanon Raider
- 1,518
- 1,375
I'm not sure where people getting this idea of "classes locked behind endgame" from... When you create your character, you can choose any two classes you want. You don't have to unlock anything to choose what ever two classes you want. Why do people keep saying this is locked behind endgame content?
The only thing that locks is at level 11, your PRIMARY class is locked on your character. You can still choose any two other classes to go along with your primary class, and you can change those two extra classes at any time. It works exactly like the persona system in regular EQ. You go to a tab, choose to add a build, and then you choose your 2 extra classes to go along with your existing primary class. You can have any number of builds which means you can have any number of combinations that you can switch between at anytime when you are back in town (just like how personas wont let you change unless you are in a safe zone).
It's the same concept as personas with the exception that you get 3 classes at a time instead of 1.
The ONLY thing you are unlocking later on is the ability to have a different PRIMARY class in your builds.
And, you can change your primary class at anytime before you reach level 11.
Here's the thing... don't choose a stupid class to be your primary class.
Then when you get to level 50, unlock additional primary classes by playing the damn game. You know, the thing you already fucking do.
Why the fuck is that so controversial to anyone?
Here's the cliff notes version:
- Don't choose a stupid class to be your primary class.. seriously.. don't be a fucking idiot and this is a no brainer
- You can change your primary class at any time before you hit level 11. Again, no fucking brainer. Play it for 10 levels and see if you like pairing that class with other classes. It's not fucking rocket science
- At level 10 and beyond, you can swap between any classes as your TWO secondary classes to go along with your primary class AT ANY TIME. You literally just create different builds and swap between them when in town
- At max level, go farm level 50 raid content (THAT YOU CAN LITERALLY SOLO) to complete quests in order to open ADDITIONAL primary class slots in order to have builds you can swap to that have a DIFFERENT primary class
You complain about the game being made too easy for you and then you turn around and complain that you have to do some quests (that you can fucking SOLO) at end game in order to have additional classes to use as your primary class.
Stop being fucking retarded.
Mrniceguy
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,045
- 572
Because this is how you change your primary class
It's a mechanic that's blatantly designed to get you to buy a token if you wanna change your primary class. With 7 day unlocks it will be borderline impossible to do for the first 3 months. There is zero reason for this mechanic to exist. It exist solely to scam people out of money.
- 2
Don't forget about no alts.
I get what you're saying Pharone, but if I want to change my mind because my level 35 primary warrior / monk / bard doesn't feel fun and I want to try shadowknight / rogue / mage I'm just fucked into deleting or buying a primary swap token. That is not a good system. That is a system designed around MTX and shitty game design.
- 1
hory
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 2,527
- 6,411
Sounds like a perfect fucking system if you want people to keep paying a monthly sub and buy useless pixels.
Rogan and Secrets financial freedom is being gate kept only by their ability to extract money out of 75 IQ eq addicted people.
If they can do it they will crowd fund themselves to onlyfan like levels.
Rogan and Secrets financial freedom is being gate kept only by their ability to extract money out of 75 IQ eq addicted people.
If they can do it they will crowd fund themselves to onlyfan like levels.
General Antony
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 1,453
- 6,693
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 34,304
- 101,069
It allows them to sell similar but not quite the same feature to you for additional revenue. Maybe you buy another copy and make an alt that way. That also works.
- 841
- 1,296
In the stream they said it was a technical limitation, because of the way they are allowing 'all' classes on one character, it was too much for the database to have alts. Subsequently, there was a lot of post-hoc rationalization about how it's actually a good thing because they will have aliases, which are just saved loadouts of your classes? Those aliases will be able to log out in different areas and have different names I guess? Probably piggybacking on the persona system.
One thing is exposed is that Brasse or whoever has no idea why people play alts.
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,294
- 3,855
No dog in this race, but it's a questionable decision to have a main selling point "play as any 3 class combo!" Which they immediately lock the player into and limit their ability to experiment without significant time investment on an existing (only) character.
It's really hard to justify that decision as anything than a way to incentivise buying a token aka a money grab. Databases excuse is... Dubious
It's really hard to justify that decision as anything than a way to incentivise buying a token aka a money grab. Databases excuse is... Dubious
- 2
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 34,304
- 101,069
It doesn't have to be about selling tokens. Maybe the database costs are substantial and this keeps costs down so while it's still about money (in an online game with a box price and subscription fee) it's about money in a different way!
Also please buy tokens, exp pots and MTXs.
Xevy
Log Wizard
- 9,486
- 4,628
Here's some actual facts:
-The warrior unlock from Sky achievements is for your PRIMARY CLASS, the basis class which seems weird and pretty much just determines your race. The SECONDARY/TERTIARY classes can be changed in town at any time. This does mean you're more or less hard locked to a single class until you get a free token at 50. They've said 0 about selling this token in the shop.
-They've not said ANYTHING about selling Tokens in the shop. This is all conjecture and assumptions. On the last stream they mentioned several ways to change race and a shop item wasn't one of them. Could they POTENTIALLY be in the shop? Maybe! They could also sell used wood elf panties, but this is pure boogeyman shit right now.
-The warrior unlock from Sky achievements is for your PRIMARY CLASS, the basis class which seems weird and pretty much just determines your race. The SECONDARY/TERTIARY classes can be changed in town at any time. This does mean you're more or less hard locked to a single class until you get a free token at 50. They've said 0 about selling this token in the shop.
-They've not said ANYTHING about selling Tokens in the shop. This is all conjecture and assumptions. On the last stream they mentioned several ways to change race and a shop item wasn't one of them. Could they POTENTIALLY be in the shop? Maybe! They could also sell used wood elf panties, but this is pure boogeyman shit right now.