Fallout 4

Skanda_sl said:

Load of PvP bullshit. I'd ask who are you do define how much value creativity has to an individual in a single player game? You like it in PvP because you can instantaneously show off and swing your dick around. This does not diminish the value a single person has for their single player build.

Click to expand...

The statement I made was a bit sloppy, let me throw it back in the forge and try again.

Creating something cool in a game can be fun and engaging if one of the following is true:
1. The combat is both difficult enough such that creativity is needed to win, and fun when it is difficult.
2. The game allows enough freedom and options such that you can create a unique and interesting entity within the game.

I've spent a tremendous amount of time creating stuff in singleplayer games like Sims, Sim City, Kenshi, Minecraft (most of it done in multiplayer though) etc. and yeah, I enjoyed "playing dollhouse".

But in FO4 they are recreating the kind of base building you'd see in DayZ. But in a singleplayer game. It's sort of parallel to the survival discussion earlier. The gameplay mechanics that make DayZ so much fun are intrinsic to the multiplayer aspect and trying to recreate that fun in a singleplayer game will likely fall flat. I did just that in Kenshi where I spent a weekend building the ultimate base that would be impervious to the NPC invaders. And it was. And I shrugged my shoulders and wondered why I even bothered.

hodj_sl said:

Yeah I don't expect Bethesda to make it very challenging. They have this "Everyone has to be able to do well" mentality that really waters down their games.

Click to expand...

It's not even that, it's that making a game difficult in a fun way is very hard and requires a combat system that supports it. Dark Souls is oft lauded but few people recognize that making a game that difficult while still allowing for a lot of player freedom and is still fun is super challenging. I've spent a tremendous amount of time playing Bethesda games on very challenging settings and tweaking it so that the game is hard but fun on my particular play style is very difficult. To do so for a broad spectrum of playe styles would be a monstruous task that Bethesda shouldn't attempt.

BTW: I could be completely wrong about this and in a couple months this thread will be full of all of us posting our baller ass FO4 builds that are unique and interesting.

hodj_sl said:

I don't disagree with anything you're saying.

I just hope the game is as fun to explore and play in as F3. I don't expect NV quality story telling.

I'm weird about the last gen Fallouts, because unlike most people, I really enjoyed F3s map, especially the subway/sewer system stuff that most other people didn't like.

That's why my favorite mod combines the two games so I get NVs mechanics in F3s map.

As long as the actual gameplay is as entertaining as F3s was to me I'll be happy regardless of probably much else related to the story, like actual challenge, story quality, etc.

Click to expand...

I also enjoyed the DC area a LOT more than New Vegas. The DC area captured the chaotic, sprawling and ravaged area of a metropolis more than people give it credit for. It's not the well laid out set of quest hubs with coherent direction and polish. It's a big fucking concrete mess of shit.

I don't remember what either game was like vanilla, what mechanic changes did they make?

I remember the giant radscorps being the worst because you encountered them early on. That was a huge part of why hard in fallout was bad. In hard mode they lazily just made mobs into bullet sponges, which was somewhat necessary because it was so easy to simply kite or otherwise attack mobs in a way they couldn't hurt you. This also added an element of scarcity because you'd expend 5 magazines into a super mutant master or giant radscorpion.

I actually liked the different ammo types because that was sort of the answer to the DT problem. You had to keep a collection of AP rounds for a few guns in order to kill the high DT opponents.