Fell Seal: Arbiters Mark

pharmakos

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Seems like the quickest and cheesiest way to level is just leave one enemy alive and then just buff/heal/hit each other until you get bored of it:

Yeah that's a classic issue with these sorts of games. Easy trap to fall into and make the game boring for yourself. I used to do it as a kid with FFT and then give up on that save because making powerful builds felt pointless if I was just one shotting everything anyway. Tho I suppose since you can change difficulty midgame in Fell Seal it might not be as big of an issue.

I'm curious tho -- do you get more job points doing that method? Or just more EXP?
 

Hateyou

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Sounds like something I would do as a kid when I had lots of time on my hands and wanted to min max. My goal now is to have fun so I haven’t been doing that, I have done it once when my goal was to level one of my wizards and he didn’t quite get there by the end. Game is too much fun and challenging to cheese it and make it boring like that, for me anyways.
 

Ritley

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I’m not really doing that, but did while I noticed that it does that pretty early on while I was stalling beating the level until I could get a chest. If I ever get to a point where I need to level up though that is what I would do.

Right now I just make sure to use an action every turn even if it’s not a useful one
 

pharmakos

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Hit a frustrating difficulty spike on my modified Hard difficulty run... After the third temple, the level range of all the Patrol missions increased a lot, and now there's only one single map that is in a good range for me to grind on.
 

pharmakos

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Well, I beat this. Did all the side content pre-credits that I could. About 73 hours sunk in but 10-15 of that was probably idle. Apparently there's still this "Ancient Path" post-game content I can do now that I beat the game, which I intend to complete too. Doubt I'll ever replay the game once I perfect this save file, but I'm definitely glad I bought this one. Great game, truly scratched the itch Final Fantasy Tactics left behind 20 years ago.
 
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Phazael

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About to plat this (Bug guy master all trophy is bullshit, but last one left) and I add my voice to the chorus that this is a good game with great AI. Not especially replayable and it has the reverse issue FFT had with story characters (most in this game stink due to not having access to Lord/Princess/Lich/Vampire abilities), but probably the best tactics game made since Knights of Lodis. To bad Square hates itself so much because I would kill to get both FFT and Tactics Ogre on the PS4, but this game is a very close second to those in enjoyment.
 

Phazael

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PS- You can do most of this game with minimal grinding, even at Veteran difficulty. Like most games of this type, there are cheese builds and items that trivialize it, if that's how you roll. But the computer pulls the same shit later on, so no need to feel guilty about wrecking the balance in it. Some major examples:

Blood Axes- Easy to get and broken as hell on any dual wield setup, since it largely removed the need for healers. Even when other weapons start doing more damage, these are still worth it due to making a good mele build basically unkillable unless they can one round you. Seriously, being able to essentially complete heal while attacking is game busting, especially since any character who has leveled the relevant classes is likely super fast as well. My dual blood axe ranger vampires are my main MVPs, of all the mele guys I built up.

Charm (and Taunt on Knights)- This is the key to breaking a lot of fights, especially the Arena championships. The computer loves to have bullshit characters no one would ever grind to build, especially when it comes to unkillable healers. So charm them (Vampire is almost always 100%) or Taunt them and let the computer screw itself.

Blood Magic-Double Cast 2-Lay Waste- The math magic of this game, but takes a dedicated heal bot to keep it going and a lot of grinding to get there. Once there, you can pretty much send in some blood axe guys to mop up while chain raping the entire map. Boring and OP, but still as effective as Math Mages and Dancers were from FFT.

Bzarro Arch Afflictor- Same principle as above, but less damaging. But its better because (especially with Malice) it slaps mana drain and random status effects into the mix. This exploits two things about the AI. First, the AI cheats on random status causers to always generate one the target is not immune to, which you now get to abuse. Second, the AI is obsessed with healing itself constantly, so regularly dumping damage and status rape on the entire map means they run around in circles holding chain circle jerk healing/buffing while your dual wield rape squad goes in largely uncontested to mop up. Combine with above build for faceroll mode, even on the hardest settings.

Still a great game with a lot of viable ways to build characters.
 
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Khane

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Hrmm, was just thinking about a turn based tactical RPG to play and found this thread. Published by 1C which is the company that did the King's Bounty remake. Think I'll buy this to scratch the itch.
 

Hateyou

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Hrmm, was just thinking about a turn based tactical RPG to play and found this thread. Published by 1C which is the company that did the King's Bounty remake. Think I'll buy this to scratch the itch.

It’s great. I’ve tried a lot of tactics over the years since FFT and TO and this is the first one to deliver. Disgaea delivered as well but in a different way, it never scratched the FFT / TO itch.
 

Khane

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I always forget how daunting Tactical RPGs can be in the early game. Battles are slug fests rather than tactical because you don't really have access to anything interesting at first.
 

elidib

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Loving this game so far.

Trying to build towards a final party, would like some advice, I'm thinking of going with something like this:

  1. generic Ranger/Warmage: know weakness 2 & versatile in order to alternate infused edge/sniper shot
  2. generic princess/sorcerer: blood magic & what's the best 4th passive for this build? bloodlust? mind expert? hallowed body? blessed one?
  3. generic sorcerer with blood magic
  4. Anadine: Demon Knight with dual wield, what's the best complimentary offclass for this? what's the best 4th passive? bloodlust, leech mana for more damage (converted from mp by focused rage), or leech health to heal her immediately back up?
  5. Reiner: one for all gunner - gunner/knight with dual wield as one passive and what's the best 4th passive for this build? attack expert or execute for damage, leech mana or mana font in order to keep OFA up every single turn, leech health for survivability?
  6. Kyrie: not sure whether I want a tank build where I go knight with defense expert and just taunt things and use defensive hit, or something more damaging like templar/warmage, or scoundrel/warmage, or warmage/something with dual wield with infused edge
Who should be the primary buffer in this party, and should they be doing MND up for the sorcerers or ATK up for the hit squad?

Does Bzaro fit in anywhere to a party like this? I don't know if there's some role he would really excel at or if he would be underperforming compared to the others.

Fell Seal Passives and Classes for reference
 

Phazael

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Bzaro can fit the caster slot IF you can get him into a fight to learn the arch afflictor class. Plague wind is broken as fuck, thanks to the AI wasting all its time healing random unimportant status ailments and minor damage. This is how I blew through the second Arena Tourney on my first attempt. Until that point, the healing classes he starts with are his best option, since he gets the best holy nuke with those and you end up fighting a LOT of demons at that point in the game. And you want him to be useful, because getting his trophy means you are going to be spending a lot of time using him. When leveling him in melee classes, make the kiwi skillset his secondary. The boomerang shit alone is worth it, since it can break up formations or instagib enemies who linger too close to high cliffs and lava (the bandit girl is great for this too).

In general, any damage dealer wants dual wield first, attack expert (or similar ones) second, and (if able) bat form to get into back shot positions. Not having to walk around enemies to just appear in the back arc of enemy casters or to simply get to hard to reach places is beyond valuable. The life leech thing stinks after the early game (dual Blood Axes do the job better and work as an end game weapon), so don't bother with that one. The lucky passive from Gambler is great in a pinch if you lack any of the mainstays, since it cuts down on backfire rates of attacks that have them and greatly amplifies critical rates. Depending on build, Equip All sometimes is good, especially if it lets you slap Blood Axes on an a class with otherwise shitty weapon options.

Addressing other specific questions:
Rangers- Dual Wield Blood Axe Rangers are much more potent, because they basically full heal themselves in one round of combat and Ranger is one of the few classes with innate access to Axes. Having said that, simply having gunners makes the AI advance on you more, which is useful.

Princess Sorcerer- Blood Magic, Mind Plus (Hallowed Body is better), and the passive that lets mana take damage are essential. Double Cast Lay waste is basically face roll mode in this game (except the final battle) if you can manage healing the character well between nukes. Thorns counter on the enemies (the computer LOVES to do this) can make this tricky, so sometimes just healing yourself after a single nuke (or Nuke, Quicken, Heal, Nuke) is better tactically. Keeping the computer wounded will make it spend time healing more than hurting you and you are not going to broom an entire map with a double nuke after the midgame, anyhow.

Andeline- Dual Blood Axes, Demon Knight, and whatever attack passives paired with Templar (for self re-res) makes her basically an unstoppable killing machine. Just don't let her get charmed or you are fucked LOL. Knight is decent, too, because the Taunt skill lands on a lot of shit that is immune to Charm, letting her work as a sort of poor man's crowd control. Case in point, Berzerking enemy wizards is fun and they generally suck at resisting it. I considered her good, mostly due to Axes being a core weapon (dual Blood Axe again), but once you start getting most people with dual wield there are better options (Princess Vampires being the most obvious example) for dealing damage without getting flattened by the computer. Andeline has a bit of a glass jaw at times. That said, she is the strongest of the Story Characters aside from MAYBE a properly configured caster Bzaro.

Reiner- Don't underestimate Gambler. He is good with that class and can serve as a melee guy and buffer utility dude ESPECIALLY once you get his personal class. Endgame, he holds up better than most of the story characters and he is the only one who gets a movement ability like Bat Form.

Kyrie- Her personal class stinks because its basically a warmage lite, but as a story character she lacks access to any of the classes that make either casting or hybrids work and her base class cannot equip most of the critical gear that can make hybrids viable. No Vampire class for stat growth and getting around, no Princess for double cast or equip all, no Lich for early life casting tactics. She basically stinks, outside of having higher base stats. I personally set her up as a dual wielder with gadgeteering for utility, having her guard the wizards or providing close in support for my main damage dealers. Once you see what a Lord/Warmage is capable of even WITHOUT dual wield, you will probably give up on her too. She is ok up until midgame, but she starts really falling behind your customs to the point of uselessness. Plus, the bonuses to AP for keeping her from dying are substantial, so its dumb to put her in harms way. If you really want to fight with her, she makes a decent Templar Knight combo, but then again so does literally anyone.

As for what to take, this game is thankfully deep enough that there is no one best party. A lot depends on if the bonus bee or kiwi guys are there to kill, if you are fighting things with lots of magic resistance, or the murder orc woman of doom is part of the enemy group. But there are some basics that it helps to cover and you seem to have a good grasp on that. If you are looking for a solid buffer, that will change depending on side skills. But in general, gambling or gadgeteer let anyone fill in nicely as buffer/utility types. Having two people with those as secondaries is generally enough to cover those bases. You don't want more, because Fellblades start showing up a lot more and the computer loves to spam abilities that strip buffs and hit harder based on the number dispelled. You want solid healing, but this can take numerous forms (mass blood axe dual wield spam, pick any Princess in the group, ect). And the gadgets and gambling often have features that bypass enemy defenses in certain ways. The Club Card for example, seems like shit damage until you realize it ignores any counter and defense stat, meaning its 25-200 will always land and do that range, making it a great way to kill the underground giant wurms in the early game when you are not at the attack cap yet. The spade card of random debuffs will make the computer stop and correct the damage no matter what shitty 1-3 debuffs stick. Most of the gadgets work the same way, but with the added bonus of opening the door to a second mana stone access. Also, if Reiner is in the mix, his imitate ability can break the game, particularly if you copy Bzaro's Plague Wind or a mana stone.

There are really only three most haves:
1) Permakill skill- There are enemies who are simply too fucking annoying to allow to be ressed and there are numerous ways to make sure they stay dead (the bandit girl has universal ones that yield crafting drops), ensuring only the more manageable guys get ressed.
2) Charm/Berserk- Sometimes you HAVE to take an enemy out of the fight and charming/berserking them essentially does that. Charming enemy healers is especially hilarious and effective, since the computer will actually burn its own item stock to heal you if given the option. Remember the computer tends to cheat a lot, so the best DPS is usually charmed derps of theirs.
3) Healers- Half of the group AT LEAST should be able to heal or clear bad status without resorting to items. Early on this is less critical, but in the late game just prior to being able to farm mass status immunity items, the computer is relentless at tossing mass damage and status buttfucks at you. Its ALWAYS better to keep someone alive than hang your dick out there to kill an enemy, because by the time you have ressed and healed the dead guy back up you have wasted valuable time. This is especially true once you are at the point of abusing Blood Magic, since your casters will be parked far away from the action and both those wizards and the advance guys will need healing. Caveat: Mass Bloodaxe Spam means one healer is generally enough, but this is not always the situation you will be in.
 
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Gavinmad

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Bump since this was recently in the Humble sub.

fucking lol @ level 5 of the Ancient Path (semi-hidden dungeon you can unlock once the final boss fight is available). I've been sticking exclusively to story characters just because custom characters are so OP in comparison, and the first four levels of the Ancient Path have been fairly easy so I've been going with sub-optimal builds in non-mastered classes for the AP gains. Then level 5 happened.

Level 5 has lava, and features a PC-esque optimized demon knight/assassin with hover boots as one of the enemies. So I'm continuing my casual advance that has worked for the previous maps, then all of the sudden the dkass runs out over lava, uses the assassin swap places ability to instakill reiner, then uses demon knight's cleave bonus action to run up and crit kyrie from behind, instakilling her too. Might have to take this fight seriously.
 
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pharmakos

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Bump since this was recently in the Humble sub.

fucking lol @ level 5 of the Ancient Path (semi-hidden dungeon you can unlock once the final boss fight is available). I've been sticking exclusively to story characters just because custom characters are so OP in comparison, and the first four levels of the Ancient Path have been fairly easy so I've been going with sub-optimal builds in non-mastered classes for the AP gains. Then level 5 happened.

Level 5 has lava, and features a PC-esque optimized demon knight/assassin with hover boots as one of the enemies. So I'm continuing my casual advance that has worked for the previous maps, then all of the sudden the dkass runs out over lava, uses the assassin swap places ability to instakill reiner, then uses demon knight's cleave bonus action to run up and crit kyrie from behind, instakilling her too. Might have to take this fight seriously.

That might be the fight I quit on... I didn't make it through the whole endgame. Maybe I should now. I wonder how much they've updated/changed since I quit playing, I know the dev was pretty active.
 

Hateyou

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The next patch is the expansion, not sure when it comes out but they’ve been pretty active lately. I’m waiting for that then going back. Playable monsters, tons of news items, new class, etc.
 
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Gavinmad

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That might be the fight I quit on... I didn't make it through the whole endgame. Maybe I should now. I wonder how much they've updated/changed since I quit playing, I know the dev was pretty active.

She has undispellable rebirth too. She's not invincible, it's just an unexpected (and somewhat absurd) ramp up in difficulty from how trivially easy the first four levels are. I guess levels 6 and 7 are similarly nasty.

Also I probably shouldn't be doing the fights with the cursed shield equipped.
 
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eXarc

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This might sound like the dumbest fucking shit ever, but after playing FFT and it being my favorite game of all time with Tactics Ogre being a strong contender of greatness as well, I can't get into the sprites in this game. It's like if I'm playing this genre, they have to be pixel midgets in the style of FFT or my brain hates it. Lmao, it's weird. I've tried so many goddamn 'tactical RPG' ripoffs of FFT that I could find though, and most of them are complete shit.

I think I might give this a try though, regardless of my admittedly stupid ass brain hating the art. The only thing I've ever found that is somewhat close to FFT besides TO in comparison in gameplay and true style is a series called Mercernaries that I believe I played on my DS. Very good, but obviously not the same and the writing was extremely subpar...but in my opinion, FFT is one of the most interesting and badass gaming stories ever written.

Is there any other gaming travesty as massive as the fact that we have never gotten a proper FFT sequel or the like? Seriously. I played Advance and A2. They are not horrible games, but they are definitely not true sequels at all. Too many stupid additions with the law system and whatnot that ruined it for me, and the story is complete Nintendo garbage kiddy drivel. On that note, it's hard for me to even find a rational reason why. I can understand at the time, especially after riding upon the unbelievable success of FF7, why they might not dive into immediately lining up more games in the vein of FFT. But now? They definitely have the money and resources and I think the demand is huge. I thought for a while it was maybe a small bubble I was in, and that FFT wasn't actually as popular as I thought. I don't think that's the case, though...I see it everywhere, people still talk about it constantly 20+ years later. There's an entire community that's been devoted to modding and playing that game since around 2007 (FFHacktics). It is basically the originator and perfector of the genre all in one still to this day. I know some things came before it, but all the details of FFT seem to make it the 'original' tactical RPG to me. I really hope one day Square wakes up and does something with the Final Fantasy Tactics name that isn't some spinoff garbage or mobile gacha game trash. What a waste of an unbelievable IP and game world.

Fucking sorry for the huge FFT derail, I had to get it off my chest because I've had the itch to go back to the genre and this happens to me once a year. I look around everywhere for something as good after my annual playthrough of FFT and there's just nothing. So I guess this is one of the last ones on my list to give it a shot! To be fair I've heard really great things about Fell Seal and you guys seem to think highly of it as well, so I'm hopeful.
 
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Gavinmad

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Fucking sorry for the huge FFT derail, I had to get it off my chest because I've had the itch to go back to the genre and this happens to me once a year. I look around everywhere for something as good after my annual playthrough of FFT and there's just nothing. So I guess this is one of the last ones on my list to give it a shot! To be fair I've heard really great things about Fell Seal and you guys seem to think highly of it as well, so I'm hopeful.

Fell Seal is practically a remaster of FFT gameplay wise, it's very satisfying. Don't expect much out of the story though, at least not compared to the Machiavellian insanity of FFT's story.
 
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Hateyou

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This might sound like the dumbest fucking shit ever, but after playing FFT and it being my favorite game of all time with Tactics Ogre being a strong contender of greatness as well, I can't get into the sprites in this game. It's like if I'm playing this genre, they have to be pixel midgets in the style of FFT or my brain hates it. Lmao, it's weird. I've tried so many goddamn 'tactical RPG' ripoffs of FFT that I could find though, and most of them are complete shit.

I think I might give this a try though, regardless of my admittedly stupid ass brain hating the art. The only thing I've ever found that is somewhat close to FFT besides TO in comparison in gameplay and true style is a series called Mercernaries that I believe I played on my DS. Very good, but obviously not the same and the writing was extremely subpar...but in my opinion, FFT is one of the most interesting and badass gaming stories ever written.

Is there any other gaming travesty as massive as the fact that we have never gotten a proper FFT sequel or the like? Seriously. I played Advance and A2. They are not horrible games, but they are definitely not true sequels at all. Too many stupid additions with the law system and whatnot that ruined it for me, and the story is complete Nintendo garbage kiddy drivel. On that note, it's hard for me to even find a rational reason why. I can understand at the time, especially after riding upon the unbelievable success of FF7, why they might not dive into immediately lining up more games in the vein of FFT. But now? They definitely have the money and resources and I think the demand is huge. I thought for a while it was maybe a small bubble I was in, and that FFT wasn't actually as popular as I thought. I don't think that's the case, though...I see it everywhere, people still talk about it constantly 20+ years later. There's an entire community that's been devoted to modding and playing that game since around 2007 (FFHacktics). It is basically the originator and perfector of the genre all in one still to this day. I know some things came before it, but all the details of FFT seem to make it the 'original' tactical RPG to me. I really hope one day Square wakes up and does something with the Final Fantasy Tactics name that isn't some spinoff garbage or mobile gacha game trash. What a waste of an unbelievable IP and game world.

Fucking sorry for the huge FFT derail, I had to get it off my chest because I've had the itch to go back to the genre and this happens to me once a year. I look around everywhere for something as good after my annual playthrough of FFT and there's just nothing. So I guess this is one of the last ones on my list to give it a shot! To be fair I've heard really great things about Fell Seal and you guys seem to think highly of it as well, so I'm hopeful.

I’ve pretty much felt the same about the genre as you just described. Disgaea was a tactics series that I got into but it’s a completely different animal than FFT/OT and I don’t really compare them
to each other.

Fell Seal is the first game sinceFFT/OT that actually felt like they could be used in the same sentence together. I prefer the shorter/thicker art of FFT/OT and I actually put off Fell Seal for a while due to not caring for the art much. The gameplay is fantastic and addicting though and the art grew on me, I’m totally over the aversion I had to it in the beginning. The story is not that deep but it’s good enough/not a failure. The game play and class system shines and that’s what matters.