Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Nester_sl said:

Wide leg computer desk plus lazyboy is just pure win.

I have been living the dream for years

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I was just telling my g/f about this last night lol. When I wasn't in front of the tv I would put it up to our huge desk and just sit back and play. I must've looked like the man, I'm almost sure of it.

Even if the combat is a little slow that's fine by me, the slowness flows well if skillchains and shit are active in a party, you need windows to identify skills, and follow them up between characters. Nothing intrinsically better about more apm. I just hope the game is enjoyable in its own right in the ways 11 was, I'll play it if / when that is the case but it definitely needs to be much more than it was in version 1.0.

If anyone has lost interest in the beta I would take it off your hands...;-)

I think what we're all missing is the roles from eq. The support role has died and pulling? That was an art. The trinity has really dumbed down mmos.

Penance_sl said:

I think what we're all missing is the roles from eq. The support role has died and pulling? That was an art. The trinity has really dumbed down mmos.

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To be fair, FFXI had even more roles than EQ. Tanking alone you had turtle tanking with paladins, avoidance (blink) tanking with ninjas, and additional situational builds depending on jobs, such as back-tanking mobs with damage shields on Dancer. You had red mages who could heal, debuff, nuke, and tank to a certain extent. There were so many different roles created by the ability to utilise subjobs and gears-swapping.

Penance_sl said:

The trinity has really dumbed down mmos.

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What do you mean by this ?

Zehn was advocating a non DIKU manaless MMO for years. GW2 fills both those criteria but it's PvE isn't great. I'd genuinely like to read Zehn critique it and talk about how it would change to fit his theories.


Personally, I think WoWs normalisation dumbed down MMOs more than anything else in the last decade.

'Bring the player not the class'. ie 'Hand over the dollars and park your feeling of connection to your character'.

Thats just a bogus claim. WOW has not dumbed down anything. In fact, it was the game that introduced incredibly complicated raid encounters where if one person makes a mistake it wipes the whole raid.

You can talk about class design though and how each class has become less and less defined to some degree.

WoW itself didn't dumb anything down. However, WoW's ability to heavily modify the user interface certainly does. Doesn't matter how fucking complex you make an encounter when your interface can just tell you exactly when to move, lay out the best order for using your abilities, etc.

That still doesn't matter because people still fuck it up all the time no matter what.

Draegan_sl said:

Thats just a bogus claim. WOW has not dumbed down anything. In fact, it was the game that introduced incredibly complicated raid encounters where if one person makes a mistake it wipes the whole raid.

You can talk about class design though and how each class has become less and less defined to some degree.

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Not to nitpick but WoW was not the first mmo the add scripting that caused whole raids to die due to one tard messing up something.

Oh really? WOW didn't invent the internet too?

Draegan, WoW is a streamlined piece of shit MMO that is successful due to the fact it is designed for the lowest common denominator of the MMO market and is so simple any droolcup who can download the massive amount of addons created to make it even further foolproof will find great success.

To call a raid in any MMO " incredibly complicated" is fucking laughable.

You're a boring poster. You should stop.

no u

Draegan_sl said:

You're a boring poster. You should stop.

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seriously

So have we confirmed this is more of a group game or can you solo to max and be fast at doing it?

WoW took the raid formula from EQ1. In EQ1 it was incredibly punishing in terms of time spent to gear acquired. It worked in EQ1 because i) those of us who played it were sadomasochists and ii) gear could be wonderful, unique and last for years or even for as long as you played.

Over time Blizzard adapted this model for people who want to log in 30 minutes twice a week and are entitled to a loot pinata of BIS gear within a month of an expansion launching.

WoW is the Human Centipede of MMOs. You're constantly forced to eat the shit of all the idiots Kotick and Ghostcrawler have stitched to you in a never forgiving circle.

Flight_sl said:

WoW took the raid formula from EQ1. In EQ1 it was incredibly punishing in terms of time spent to gear acquired. It worked in EQ1 because i) those of us who played it were sadomasochists and ii) gear could be wonderful, unique and last for years or even for as long as you played.

Over time Blizzard adapted this model for people who want to log in 30 minutes twice a week and are entitled to a loot pinata of BIS gear within a month of an expansion launching.

WoW is the Human Centipede of MMOs. You're constantly forced to eat the shit of all the idiots Kotick and Ghostcrawler have stitched to you in a never forgiving circle.

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Perhaps initially, but WoW raids evolved into to this mind numbingly boring hoop jumping contest where raid members have to program all their robotic moves and perform them perfectly or risk destroying the event for everyone else.

EQ raids mobs were not nearly as complicated and allowed for even end game guilds to carry the lesser skilled players who sucked at keyboard mashing but were funny and our friends.

There is no room for friendship or humor in a WoW style raid. You perform your robot moves in perfection or you lose. It's always the same.

Personally I find the WoW style of raiding to be incredibly boring. I prefer raids that are less predictable and allow room to carry your friends. Dungeon crawls in non instanced zones competing with the other top guilds on your server, while occasionally griefing them, was the most fun I ever had in a raid. Killing the dragon was just the finisher.

Convo_sl said:

seriously

So have we confirmed this is more of a group game or can you solo to max and be fast at doing it?

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Too soon to tell. From the way alpha looked, it seems like it will be a combination group/solo game. However, alpha only went to lvl 20, so things could change pretty drastically towards cap (lvl 50, afaik). Leveling speed was pretty fast I suppose, but when you combine this with storyline quests, job quests, etc...like I said, too soon to tell. They made an announcement to expect something on Jan 7, so that will probably be the beta signup and hopefully benchmark software.

Bartle_sl said:

Don't get me wrong, [the trinity] can be a lot of fun, but it's a dead end in design terms.

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Bartle seems to agree. He's always complaining about how the genre hasn't advanced much.

WoW didn't dumb down anything. The raids today are far more sophisticated than anything EQ had. Players are more advanced and have more advanced tools these days. UI add-ons did make it much more predictable, but look at how people bitched about the dungeons in GW2 when they made combat less predictable.

edit
I agree that more chaos in fights is more interesting. I actually liked the GW2 instances. It's the reward structure that I'm not a fan of.