Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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No. 1.0 was terrible. Absolute dog shit. This 2.0 version is light years better. Combat is better but slower paced. Graphics are better. Most importantly, you can fucking JUMP. that shit is huge lol!
Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)
- Thread starter Guzrog
- Start date
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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They have an entire platform that is restricted to controllers. It needs to work just as well as a mouse and keyboard if the game is going to be successful after its relaunch.
It needed a hell of a lot more than a UI upgrade. The game reminded me more of a tech demo for a company trying to fish for investors than an actual game.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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Or they could have just listened to their beta testers for 1.0 when we were bringing all this shit up. Square-Enix totally ignored the forums though, just like they did for FFXI.
Obviously it wouldn't have been WoW quality but it would of been an actual MMO at that point. Like someone said, 1.0 was basically a tech/new class system demo.
Vittra
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Still, look how good FFXi turned out. They obviously fucked up making FF14 and I'm glad it was all the higher ups that got replaced. I read something a long time ago that their devs aren't even allowed to play other games for ideas, thats probably total bullshit but anyhow I'm liking 2.0 changes. The ending of 1.0 was getting a lot better, but nowhere near this.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I'm was looking around but has anyone really done this..? I mean literally pull the plug, clean house, and announce a grand reopening? I really think that took a pair and if they make anything from this, it should really be commended. I think it also goes back there is no such thing as bad publicity. I believe a lot of eyes are on them and word of mouth is going to snowball. How large the ball gets will be really based on the beta imho.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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From the alpha, I'd say they have a solid game. Its not new by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to be a group based game at least like FFXI at higher levels with a job system that is good also. I am so bored with other MMOs, I'll give this another go on principle. Especially with how hard they have been working to turn it around.
The devs for FFXI did play EverQuest and took inspiration. It's been said (by the producer I think) that the devs that made FF14 1.0 never tried WoW or any other contemporary MMOs during development and was the biggest reason for failure. They basically felt like they already knew what their customers wanted.
Also, FFXI was terrible when it released. It had a lot of the same issues FF14 did - no content, no auction house, crashing, etc. Difference was that Japanese gamers didn't have any other options for MMOs at that time really, so people stuck with it. Most of the issues were fixed right before it got released here in NA around a year later.
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There is a lot of information on it out there, but TLDR this guy was the root of the problem, and he is no longer with the company after a 25 year career there because of it. He is quoted multiple times as disregarding wow and more recent MMOs while at the same time not wanting to bring nearly anything over from FFXI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiromichi_Tanaka
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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Cantatus
Lord Nagafen Raider
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To some degree, I can understand disregarding WoW. Copying WoW has never proven to be a successful model (however it should still be learned from). Disregarding FFXI though? There are a lot of things that game did right that still haven't been replicated in recent MMOs, but I'm guessing it's more a matter of them not wanting to be direct competition with FFXI, which is one of the downfalls sequels to MMOs are going to have unless a significant amount of time is placed between them.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I remember this game when it was in early beta. All the talk about needing a controller to play it, how different it was, blah blah. It actually turned me off. Not that I don't appreciate a game trying to do things differently. I just felt like they were focusing on the wrong things.
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I agree. While I didn't play the beta, I did play 1.0, and even with a PS3 controller because I dug it in FFXI. The game just felt like it had no real cohesion. Vanguard felt more complete. FFXIV 1.0 just felt like a test bed for failed ideas at launch.
The greatest thing WoW had/has going for it is the UI though, and that was FFXIV's biggest weakness.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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IMO the trinity is still the same, what has changed are some very specific class abilities. I mean FFS, EQ1 was core trinity/diku design, just with some added (and possibly in the long term, unintended) mechanics.
There are plenty of classes across a number of MMOs that have scads of abilities like this. Many are, arguably, of short duration, but they are there. WOW Rogues might be a good example, it might be arguable, and I'm sure that others can come up with many other classes as well.
You just described good Hunters in WOW (emphasis on "good"). They may have changed since I last played WOW, but when I did play regularly I knew a couple hunters who could have me pull, tag one and ice trap it, then tag another and kite it if necessary. Obviously the clock was always ticking and we needed DPS to burn the rest before traps wore off, but that's just one example off the top of my head.
Sure it was, but it was capable of breaking content. And a good FD puller could split off single mobs that were never meant to be splittable. But Devs aren't going to want one class to be able to trivialize content while others cannot, and that was a huge failing on the part of EQ1. Hence the changes to FD mechanics (I'm looking at you EQ2), hardcoded encounter mobs and mob leashing. And honestly, FD pulling and things like mass trains and AE kiting an entire zone are often the bulk of what a lot of the EQ1 vets actually complain about but it isn't likely that we'll ever see any of that again in those forms. No Dev is going to want to allow people to pull entire zones or dungeons, they aren't going to want training, nor will they want certain classes to be able to single pull every zone in the game.
FD pulling at least I think was nerfed too much, since you could probably link mobs together and make them unsplittable without having to change FD mechanics themselves, but whatever.
Tons of MMOs now have abilities that the non-Tank classes have to use. Talk to anyone who has had to boot a DPS class from their group because they wouldn't use deagros or anything similar, or who didn't know that their class had a hate transfer. And honestly, as someone who has mostly played tanks in MMOs, the last thing I would want as a tank is other people in my group having to bear part of the burden of managing mob agro or being somewhat responsible for who a mob attacks. Because frankly that leads to having mouthbreathers dick things up because it is no longer solely controllable by the tank, but the tanks usually get blamed anyways. Let the support assholes support and let tanks do the fucking tanking. And don't even get me started on things like hate transfers and support class deagros, because any variation between classes can lead to people min/maxing class makeups and that leaves the other classes begging for groups because they aren't quite as good due to class design.
Few things infuriate me more than having pulls go to shit because Devs decided to give non-tank classes MORE agro/deagro abilities, which means that agro/tanking will be balanced around everyone doing their job so that when little timmy buttonsmasher is trying to go MAX BURN DPS on every pull I have to burn taunts because they can't be bothered to do their part on agro management.
Give support more of a role with agro? Sorry, but FUCK NO. I say give tanks better tools to manage agro with if you're going to go with an agro based system, because by and large most DPS players are fucking idiots.
Aggro being a significant part of gameplay has always been an awful mechanic - especially in games without threatmeters. From a DPS point of view, having a hidden value that you can't go over, in where that value changes based on the quality of tank/player (again in a hidden way) is horrific to deal with. In the end, all it does is encourage your average player in the DPS role to drastically underperform so they don't have to deal with it.
Skill in tanking should be focused around using your positioning/abilities at the right time to avoid damage. Aggro should essentially be a gimme that's given for free by virtue of being a tank and hitting a target.
Skill in tanking should be focused around using your positioning/abilities at the right time to avoid damage. Aggro should essentially be a gimme that's given for free by virtue of being a tank and hitting a target.